Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

[exodus]

These ass-backwards priorities would work on a character that's a 13-year-old kid in our time, but since these are mature adults who live in the enlightened 24th century where hopefully Looks (and perceived amounts of testosterone) Aren't Everything, I'm going to go ahead and say the question isn't what's ludicrously stupid here.

Rubbish, pure sexual attraction is a major theme of Star Trek in the 23rd and 24th centuries. Biology won't change in 2 or 3 hundred years. 7 is much more physically attractive than Janeway so unless 7 has some major and I mean major character flaws then it is beyond ludicrous to think that Chakotay would actually even consider the sour faced hag Janeway over 7.

Recognizing prejudice is also a major theme in Trek.
Kes loved Neelix, Dax loved Worf, Leeta loves Rom.
Trek has shown several times that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and a doesn't determine relationships.
Especially in this day a age, woman Janeway's age are considered the new 30.
"A hag?"
Seriously?? What is this, a POPEYE cartoon?

 

[exodus]

I honestly think it was meant as an inside joke and big "F-U" to Mulgrew for not allowing Janeway to have an on going romantic interest like they wanted. I think they wanted to get Janeway & Chakotay together for a long, long time and Mulgrew heatedly refused every time. The writers knew J/C was part of the dynamtic that could have improved the show and brought in more viewers. So their answer was to Mulgrew was, then Janeway will never have him and paired him up with Seven instead. So because Mulgrew wanted Janeway to be all career, a career is now all she has.
Plus it being the last ep., Mulgrew couldn't debate it.

This is all just made-up.

Yeah, it is.
I thought the question being asked was hypothetical?

 

[Kass18]

The whole thing just disappoints me greatly...J/C forever. Thank god for fanfiction

 

[JanewayRulz!]

... J/C forever. Thank god for fanfiction

 

[Guy Gardener]

Braga (helped) write this episode.

Braga was sleeping with Jeri Ryan at this point in time.

10 thoughts.

1. This is exactly how Braga pulled Jeri Ryan.

2 This is how Braga wished he had pulled Ryan.

3. This is misdirection so that future boyfriends of Ryan, or assholes trying to pull his girlfriend will pull her wrong using this 'how to' method.

4. This was Bermans C-game to pull a hot leggy blond so that Jeri would appreciate that he had used his A-game to pull her.

5. This was a repull by proxy, because Jeri was beginning to pull away and he was using Beltran like a muppet to assure her that he was still quite into her.

6. Braga was pulling away and hoped to unload Jeri on Beltran, so that he could trick her into pulling Beltran and he would win the break up.

7. This was punishment. Braga forced the pull because Jeri would never put the cap back on their toothpaste and it was ruining the bathroom counter top.

8. Sevens brain surgery was a metaphor for the vasectomy she kept insisting that Braga should have if he loved her and he shouldn't have pulled her in the first place if his swimmers were still pulling out of their starting blocks.

9. This was a snapshot pull for prosperity since in his old age no one might ever believe that he had pulled that.

10. This WAS a Valentines pull.

 

[froot]

^ Oh, Guy.

I thought the question being asked was hypothetical?

Was it? I dunno. I just know that's not really the story. Nor are most of the rumors about chest-thumping and all that. I think the writers just wanted to give the characters something to do, and chose very poorly.

These ass-backwards priorities would work on a character that's a 13-year-old kid in our time, but since these are mature adults who live in the enlightened 24th century where hopefully Looks (and perceived amounts of testosterone) Aren't Everything, I'm going to go ahead and say the question isn't what's ludicrously stupid here.

Rubbish, pure sexual attraction is a major theme of Star Trek in the 23rd and 24th centuries. Biology won't change in 2 or 3 hundred years. 7 is much more physically attractive than Janeway so unless 7 has some major and I mean major character flaws then it is beyond ludicrous to think that Chakotay would actually even consider the sour faced hag Janeway over 7.

Recognizing prejudice is also a major theme in Trek.
Kes loved Neelix, Dax loved Worf, Leeta loves Rom.
Trek has shown several times that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and a doesn't determine relationships.
Especially in this day a age, woman Janeway's age are considered the new 30.
"A hag?"
Seriously?? What is this, a POPEYE cartoon?

Word.

Chakotay and Janeway are very close in age. Why would Chakotay consider someone his age old? Attraction or a fling can be based on looks, sure, but relationships don't last on crap like that very long. I can think of lots of "attractive" people I wouldn't want to marry. And hell, Seven's good looking, but isn't terribly emotionally mature when it comes to relationships. Isn't that reason enough to tread carefully?

I realize you're probably quite young, so perhaps arguing about this isn't quite fair when you obviously don't really get it. I've invented straw men with less silly arguments than yours.

 

[Guy Gardener]

A Star Trek Exhibit I once saw on tour a few years back indicated that Deanna and Kathryn were the same age.

It not the years, it's the mileage.

It's not that Janeway was old during first run, but that it is that we were all much much much younger at the time, and we haven't lost many of the bigoted first impressions we generated back in the nineties even though in reruns Janeway is starting to look younger than we are.

I'm shocked that Kathy isn't some old lady any more in reruns.

 

[starlitegirl]

Janeway looked so much better with the short hair and some more color to it. That bun didn't do her any favors. I think part of the age thing is also in how they carry themselves. Belana has all that fire and attitude, so you don't really picture her being much older. Plus, the way she doubts herself is more like a young person not someone who has gained confidence with age. Janeway has a calm certainty to her that makes her feel older. There's a confidence about her. She exudes it.

 

[Lynx]

It seemed to me that Chakotay and janeway had a much better chemistry going on between them than him and seven. I just wonder why he chose her over janeway.

Because of incredible stupid writing.

Sorry, I've tried to come up with some "Trek Universe" theory but I can't. No chemistry or attraction at all between Seven and Chakotay.

 

[exodus]

It seemed to me that Chakotay and janeway had a much better chemistry going on between them than him and seven. I just wonder why he chose her over janeway.

Because of incredible stupid writing.

Sorry, I've tried to come up with some "Trek Universe" theory but I can't. No chemistry or attraction at all between Seven and Chakotay.

Seven did have an attraction to Chakotay.
It was shown in her romantic holodeck scenarios.
However, it was Chakotay that never showed any interest in Seven.

 

[Lorthos]

It seemed to me that Chakotay and janeway had a much better chemistry going on between them than him and seven. I just wonder why he chose her over janeway.

Because of incredible stupid writing.

Sorry, I've tried to come up with some "Trek Universe" theory but I can't. No chemistry or attraction at all between Seven and Chakotay.

Seven did have an attraction to Chakotay.
It was shown in her romantic holodeck scenarios.
However, it was Chakotay that never showed any interest in Seven.

That's true. I didn't think of that. Makes sense.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Seven was on the rebound from Axum in "Human Error".

I prefer to listen to the actress's comments on the C/7 anomaly.

http://www.trektoday.com/content/2011/03/ryan-voyager-pluses-and-minuses/

and specifically, this passage...

The next episode that we shot after that (Natural Law), Seven and Chakotay were stranded on some planet together. We specifically asked the producers – Robert and I – “Now, are we going to play this? Is this going to go somewhere? Because, obviously, we’d need to carry something over from…’ And they said, ‘No, no, no, no! Absolutely not. Don’t play any of that. Nothing’s going to happen.’

Take away message from this... don't trust the producers.

 

[starlitegirl]

Seven was on the rebound from Axum in "Human Error".

I prefer to listen to the actress's comments on the C/7 anomaly.

http://www.trektoday.com/content/2011/03/ryan-voyager-pluses-and-minuses/

and specifically, this passage...

The next episode that we shot after that (Natural Law), Seven and Chakotay were stranded on some planet together. We specifically asked the producers – Robert and I – “Now, are we going to play this? Is this going to go somewhere? Because, obviously, we’d need to carry something over from…’ And they said, ‘No, no, no, no! Absolutely not. Don’t play any of that. Nothing’s going to happen.’

Take away message from this... don't trust the producers.

Well somewhere along the way they changed their minds and it seems less natural because of it. IMHO, I don't find it completely unnatural given that there are plenty of people that can't stand each other at first that become great couples.

It's clear they were warming up to each other. He was encouraging her to look at things from his point of view and she was evolving because of that. So there's that, but the part that is off to me when I look at it objectively is that there was no ah-ha moment on Chakotay's end. We never see him actually come to a point where he develops feelings for her. We see it from her in the holodeck. She was exploring. But there was never that moment, like when Paris and Belana were floating in space. And it could have been done easily. A scene where she's injured and he realizes he's more concerned for her than he expected. The way the doc fixes these people up, that would have been easy to do. The lack of this type of moment from Chakotay does give it a contrived feel that I choose to omit from my brain.

I don't know. Sometimes the writers really pushed the whole suspension of disbelief factor a bit too far. Maybe they figured since it's scifi the audience will go along with ANYTHING, which implies that the really don't understand their audience all that much.

 

[AuntKate]

I think the writers thought ANY man would be willing to jump Seven's bones, so why bother with explaining why Chakotay, who didn't like her and usually was condescending to her, suddenly changed his mind? And this is what is so irritating about it. They are both totally out of character, and the dialogue is actually painful to listen to. This relationship makes George Lucas's awful pairings look like a wildly successful romance novel by comparison.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The sad thing is that all of the 4 dozen pools about who was going to bag the Borgette first or when she was going to give it up to the Indian, were rendered moot as soon as they got back to the AQ when holodeck time and replicator rations suddenly lost all scarcity and value whatsoever.

I feel personal woe for Chuckles since any wager he thought he was going to win to offset the horror of coupling with such an emotional retard was also suddenly zerosum.

Imagine you thought you were going to win 7 large on an under over from the big fight, but just before you're due to pick up the purse, your Bookie has a heart attack and passes on.

 

[creek_chub]

and the dialogue is actually painful to listen to.

This. I didn't watch the series while it was on, and I spoiled myself horribly when I finally did see it, so I knew C/7 was coming (and I wasn't looking forward to it) but even prepared for it the whole thing seemed to come out of nowhere. And hearing them speak together? I literally cringed.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Even when producers do try to build something it doesn't always work. Take Worf/Troi for example. That had ample buildup in season 7 of TNG but it didn't really work because there was no romantic or even sexual chemistry between Dorn and Sirtis. So even though they built to it the pairing still didn't work.

I also point to DS9 and Odo/Kira. That was built to for a good five or so years before it happened and there was pretty good chemistry between Vistor and Auberjonois but once they got together it all sort of fizzled. Odo/Kira worked together as an unrequited romance.

On the other hand I thought the Trip/T'Pol pairing on Enterprise worked though I thought the build to that was pretty hamfisted and obvious.

I also enjoyed the Worf/Jadzia and Riker/Troi 'ships. I had been rooting for Worf/Jadzia since before Worf ended up on DS9. When I first saw Blood Oath I realized that Jadzia and Word would be perfect for each other and cursed the TV gods that they were on two different shows and such a coupling could never take place. Who knew?

The Riker/Troi 'ship was handled clumsily in the TNG movies but Frakes/Sirtis had such undeniable chemistry that I thought it made up for all the writing deficiancies in those movies.

At the end of the day I don't really think Trek handles romance all that well. It does a damn good job about romantacizing space exploration and adventure but it really is shit at 'ships.

 

[Rojixus]

So I guess you could say Star Trek handles some ships better than others!

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Yeah. That's a good way of condensing my very long winded post into it's basic meaning.

 

[exodus]

Even when producers do try to build something it doesn't always work. Take Worf/Troi for example. That had ample buildup in season 7 of TNG but it didn't really work because there was no romantic or even sexual chemistry between Dorn and Sirtis. So even though they built to it the pairing still didn't work.

I also point to DS9 and Odo/Kira. That was built to for a good five or so years before it happened and there was pretty good chemistry between Vistor and Auberjonois but once they got together it all sort of fizzled. Odo/Kira worked together as an unrequited romance.

On the other hand I thought the Trip/T'Pol pairing on Enterprise worked though I thought the build to that was pretty hamfisted and obvious.

I also enjoyed the Worf/Jadzia and Riker/Troi 'ships. I had been rooting for Worf/Jadzia since before Worf ended up on DS9. When I first saw Blood Oath I realized that Jadzia and Word would be perfect for each other and cursed the TV gods that they were on two different shows and such a coupling could never take place. Who knew?

The Riker/Troi 'ship was handled clumsily in the TNG movies but Frakes/Sirtis had such undeniable chemistry that I thought it made up for all the writing deficiancies in those movies.

At the end of the day I don't really think Trek handles romance all that well. It does a damn good job about romantacizing space exploration and adventure but it really is shit at 'ships.

I found that Sisko/Yates worked very well too.
Even Rom/Leeta was fun due to the humor but all in all, I think you nailed it. I think they basically put C/7 together because they didn't want to leave Chakotay with outline for his future. It just shows you can't suddenly put effort into a character you've ignored for the last 4 years.