Well, it's Star Wars, not Full Metal Jacket.
Yes, because I'm the first person to critique the realism of a piece of fiction ever!
Phantom Menace is the best Prequel.
- Thread starter TheLobes
- Start date
Naw. I don't think they were nearly interesting enough to do that.Well we'd be talking about them. Probably much in the same way we are now without the weight of the OT to compare them too.
More like we frequently talk about FF: The Spirits Within or Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow.
Which is why my criticism is meant to be largely sardonic.
I love Final Fantasy: Spirits Within. though, I suppose for the Animation mainly, it's like an acid trip (I've never had one, but, had several described to me, so, I imagine it is at least). Story-wise, yea, I couldn't tell you much, even though I've seen it several times (yes, sober). I know it's about Maya and Spirits/Ghosts 
If Babylon 5 was to get new life through Animation, I'd love this style for it.
If Babylon 5 was to get new life through Animation, I'd love this style for it.
Nothing happens in ROTS? You only have the rescuing of the chancelor, the killing of Dooku and Grievas, the revelation of Palpatine's former master, Anakin turning to the dark side and becoming Darth Vader, the killing of the jedi order,the republic becoming an empire, Yoda fighting Sideous, the big battle between Vader and Obi-wan, the birth of the twins....
Yeah, nothing really happened in that movie.
ROTJ had a long period where it dragged with the ewoks. Plus it just seemed like a rehash of ANH except with a more elaborate way to destroy the death star. It wasn't all that.
I really don't have a problem with TPM. For me AOTC was the weakest of the entire series. Of all the movies, the only ones I even care to rewatch again are ESB and ROTS.
Well, to be fair, a lot happens but in a very pedestrian, boring manner. Nothing incredibly surprising happens.
Only because you've already known about what happens in advance. We already knew before walking in to the theater that the Titanic sank, but that didn't stop millions of people from enjoying it all the same. The point wasn't to be surprised but to finally see how everything went down with Anakin and the Empire.
Yeah, but we should still be entertained by it.
Nothing happens in ROTS? You only have the rescuing of the chancelor, the killing of Dooku and Grievas, the revelation of Palpatine's former master, Anakin turning to the dark side and becoming Darth Vader, the killing of the jedi order,the republic becoming an empire, Yoda fighting Sideous, the big battle between Vader and Obi-wan, the birth of the twins....
Yeah, nothing really happened in that movie.
ROTJ had a long period where it dragged with the ewoks. Plus it just seemed like a rehash of ANH except with a more elaborate way to destroy the death star. It wasn't all that.
I really don't have a problem with TPM. For me AOTC was the weakest of the entire series. Of all the movies, the only ones I even care to rewatch again are ESB and ROTS.
IMO, TPM is the least "required viewing" of the prequel trilogy. You could start watching AOTC without having seen the first one and have very little trouble following what's going on. With a few alterations, you could even make TPM completely redundant. To me, TPM is introductory filler.
STAR WARS: The Foreword!
Titanic is probably a bad example, because that movie was even less palatable than the SW prequels. Take a movie like Raging Bull, or Ali. Neither movie surprised people who were aware of the events already. However, they had compelling characters that people cared about, and that was what drove the story.
It doesn't matter what the greater events are. The prequels could have had the exact same overall plot, but if it had characters we loved with real motivations and conflicts, I personally would love the films. If Anakin, for example, were a likable guy who had a personality flaw that he could not overcome which led to his downfall, that would be far more compelling than a petulant, spoiled brat who turned to the dark side because of his own distorted views and lust for power.
Which is why people complain that the prequels are more like special effects demos than actual movies. Lucas wrote a bare bones story with paper thin characters whose only purpose was to go from one special effects set piece to the next and set up next action sequence.
You probably could have edited all three into one film by cutting out the unimportant bits.Skip TPM because it was filler. Skip AOTC because of the bad romance. Are you guys saying ROTS should have been made as 3 movies?
Oh God, why would you even mention BE and the word "trilogy" in the same sentence?
Sorry, it's certainly not my intention to deliberately look for flaws in every thing you say, because I do think that you're raising some very interesting points, but although Titanic and Star Wars I-III left you cold personally, I think it would be hard to deny that lots and lots of people enjoyed those movies quite a lot, were moved by them and found something about those characters that they could relate to. It's a bit of a mystery as far as Star Wars is concerned, but I believe that Titanic had a very tight script and a couple of excellent actors, and that's why it was so successful. Its success is obviously not something you can just brush aside as if it were just dumb luck.
I believe that's exactly what George Lucas was trying to write but couldn't. And he had no one around who was in a position to tell him: hey, maybe you should write another draft or get some help from a professional writer.
That's patently unfair. You could say that of any movie, any book, hell, you could say that of all recorded history. It means nothing, and completely misses the point of cinema.
Lucas has a hand in all the scripts. The most important thing is that Lucas wrote the story for each SW movie.
ANH was a happy accident that rarely happens in film making. Everything from the story, actors, visual effects, editing, production design, and music came together to create a monster hit. While Lucas shouldn't obviously be given all the credit for the success of the movies, they wouldn't exist without him.
ANH was a happy accident that rarely happens in film making. Everything from the story, actors, visual effects, editing, production design, and music came together to create a monster hit. While Lucas shouldn't obviously be given all the credit for the success of the movies, they wouldn't exist without him.
To test how many people could keep their lunch down, maybe?Oh God, why would you even mention BE and the word "trilogy" in the same sentence?
Bingo. No way was Phantom Menace even the worst Hollywood would-be spectacular of 1999, it's rather handily beat by Wild Wild West.
No, these films wouldn't be much talked about at all, postively or negatively, were they not also Star Wars films.
Weird thing is Lucas's earlier drafts of TPM might've made a better movie. It's mainly Obi-Wan as the lead instead of Qui-Gon, giving us better continuity with the original trilogy (Also would've given Ewan more to do in TPM).Also Jar-Jar doesn't seem to have been major comic relief until later in the film's development.
*Most of this BTW is from the Episode I Guide CD-Rom and the Making of/Art books. There doesn't appear to be any first drafts available like there are for the OT.
*Most of this BTW is from the Episode I Guide CD-Rom and the Making of/Art books. There doesn't appear to be any first drafts available like there are for the OT.
Yeah, I remember that TPM CD-ROM Guide...it was greatand sadly they never made another one. That is the only place where you can find an earlier draft of one of the prequel movies. Or I should say draft summary.
I really liked the Qui-Gon Jinn character but his presence really undercut Obi-Wan and it forced Lucas to play catch up with the Obi-Wan and Anakin friendship. Even that relationship never had consistency....they barely acknowledge each other in TPM, they're father and son in AOTC, and they're brother-broter in ROTS.
Well, everybody is entitled to their opinion, and in mine Titanic was a boring mess with cliched characters and situations, and a villain that resembled Yosemite Sam more than an real human being. And I say that as a fan of Billy Zane!
As for why Titanic was a huge hit - Leo + young girls + lots of beautiful sights and special effects + huge hit song. If I recall, the film too quite a while to catch on when it was released, so it wasn't a hit right off the bat.
So I give credit for the film being well made and simply beautiful to look at. But the characters and story were dull and bland, with a ridiculous romance between two people who hardly knew each other. Hell, Lucas clearly took Titanic as inspiration when he sat down to write Clones!
I think you give Lucas too much credit. I don't think he was trying to write a likable or realistic character at all. He either didn't give a crap, or he is so far removed from understanding normal human behavior and motivations that he thinks we can all relate to a petulant brat who is given every advantage in the world, mostly undeservedly, and then whines about not having more.
You couldn't say that for any movie. Many films have tight plot structures that move logically from one scene to the next, and action sequences that fit in with the overall story. The prequels have lengthy action sequences that are out of place and exist just to give us something to look at, and long scenes of exposition that don't add anything to the story.
