Do bad visual effects ruin sic fi for you?

[RAMA]

I don't like Babylon 5 but never have had any complaints about the effects - they were remarkable on TV at the time, and still are clearly amazingly designed and inventive despite not being realistic.

I thought they looked "plastic" even in 1993. I did understand that it was breaking ground, and knew the writing was on the wall for future TV FX. I can also still watch The Last Starfighter and enjoy it even though the FX can clearly be much better today.

RAMA

 

[Kegg]

I have a hard time believing anyone who says it's only the story that counts and that VFX don't matter at all.

Yes, but I wouldn't go that far. A film or a TV show is a package, and everything - the acting, the direction, the set design, the music, the special effects - matters, not just the script they're playing from.

THing is the script matters a great deal. It's the blueprint. You can't really save a terrible script, regardless of how much CGI you throw at the screen (you may save a mediocre script, but that's different).

So I can believe people for whom story is the most important component of this entertainment, but the other stuff's key too, absolutely.

 

[RandyS]

I have a hard time believing anyone who says it's only the story that counts and that VFX don't matter at all. I simply don't buy it. Star Trek 2009 with 5 inch models hanging on wires? Lord of the Rings with a really bad, jaggy, stop motion gollum without any facial expression other than mouth open, mouth closed? Seriously?

Yep, seriously.

 

[Silvercrest]

I can also still watch The Last Starfighter and enjoy it
RAMA

What do you enjoy? The stellar performances, the inspired dialogue, or the ground-breaking story?

 

[MacLeod]

^It's about time they did a sequel to "The Last Starfighter" after all we've had a sequel to another film out around that time "Tron" with a third Tron film in the works.

So in the case of "Tron" we had a sequel to it almost thirty years, it must have struck a chord in order for it to be remembered and kept in the publics mind for almost thirty years (yes it was one of the first films to use CGI). Still a studio had to take a gamble that a sequel would work.

Look at ST prior to the remastered editions it was still being shown around the world almost 40 years later with the FX it had in 1966, look at other shows from that era, "Lost in Space", The Allen shows why did ST survive and those didn't?

 

[RAMA]

I can also still watch The Last Starfighter and enjoy it
RAMA

What do you enjoy? The stellar performances, the inspired dialogue, or the ground-breaking story?

Its a fun movie, and a rare space opera adventure (a mish-mash of This Island Earth, Star Wars). I think you'll find a lot of people who grew up in the 80s have a soft spot for it, though I admit, its no classic, and doesn't wind up in my top 15 SF of the decade. Its also significantly less dumb than most modern action/SF.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

^It's about time they did a sequel to "The Last Starfighter" after all we've had a sequel to another film out around that time "Tron" with a third Tron film in the works.

So in the case of "Tron" we had a sequel to it almost thirty years, it must have struck a chord in order for it to be remembered and kept in the publics mind for almost thirty years (yes it was one of the first films to use CGI). Still a studio had to take a gamble that a sequel would work.

Look at ST prior to the remastered editions it was still being shown around the world almost 40 years later with the FX it had in 1966, look at other shows from that era, "Lost in Space", The Allen shows why did ST survive and those didn't?

From what I understand, the DVDs do very well for a 26 year old movie.

RAMA

 

[RJDiogenes]

I have a hard time believing anyone who says it's only the story that counts and that VFX don't matter at all. I simply don't buy it. Star Trek 2009 with 5 inch models hanging on wires?

Nothing could save that movie.

Lord of the Rings with a really bad, jaggy, stop motion gollum without any facial expression other than mouth open, mouth closed? Seriously?

Muppet Lord Of The Rings? Sounds good to me. As I said, it's not the technical perfection of the SFX, it's the aesthetics. When I go to my local theater, I enjoy the handmade sets because they look good. The SFX in Forbidden Planet, Outer Limits and Star Trek are not realistic, but they look good. A toy mansion in front of a painted backdrop in a 1931 mystery movie is obviously fake, but looks good. It's all about artistry, not photorealism.

Poor FX + Poor Story = Time to get drunk and watch a fucking shark take out a 747

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I have a hard time believing anyone who says it's only the story that counts and that VFX don't matter at all. I simply don't buy it. Star Trek 2009 with 5 inch models hanging on wires? Lord of the Rings with a really bad, jaggy, stop motion gollum without any facial expression other than mouth open, mouth closed? Seriously?

You don't believe it because you're conflating "anyone" with "everyone." What appeals to some hardcore sffantasy fans and what we'll forgive is, as must be obvious every day when looking at popular entertainment, two entirely different things.

Yes, the studio would have taken a bath on Star Trek 2009 if they'd simulated the effects work of the original TV series with all of its limitations. That does not mean that a lot of folks at TrekBBS wouldn't have gone nuts praising them for doing so.

I don't like Babylon 5 but never have had any complaints about the effects - they were remarkable on TV at the time, and still are clearly amazingly designed and inventive despite not being realistic.

I thought they looked "plastic" even in 1993.

They were remarkable anyway.

 

[Snaploud]

I don't like Babylon 5 but never have had any complaints about the effects - they were remarkable on TV at the time, and still are clearly amazingly designed and inventive despite not being realistic.

I thought they looked "plastic" even in 1993.

I think they were amazing. As for being "realistic": I remember NASA being very impressed by the starfuries.

 

[Greg Cox]

I can also still watch The Last Starfighter and enjoy it
RAMA

What do you enjoy? The stellar performances, the inspired dialogue, or the ground-breaking story?

Its a fun movie, and a rare space opera adventure (a mish-mash of This Island Earth, Star Wars). I think you'll find a lot of people who grew up in the 80s have a soft spot for it, though I admit, its no classic, and doesn't wind up in my top 15 SF of the decade. Its also significantly less dumb than most modern action/SF.

RAMA

Plus, of course, Robert Preston is a lot of fun in that movie, basically doing a scifi riff on his character from "The Music Man."

As I recall, it's a sweet, charming little space opera with a lot of heart.

 

[Gov Kodos]

What do you enjoy? The stellar performances, the inspired dialogue, or the ground-breaking story?

Its a fun movie, and a rare space opera adventure (a mish-mash of This Island Earth, Star Wars). I think you'll find a lot of people who grew up in the 80s have a soft spot for it, though I admit, its no classic, and doesn't wind up in my top 15 SF of the decade. Its also significantly less dumb than most modern action/SF.

RAMA

Plus, of course, you had Robert Preston is a lot of fun in that movie, basically doing a scifi riff on his character from "The Music Man."

As I recall, it's a sweet, charming little space opera with a lot of heart.

Always trust Centauri

 

[RAMA]

What do you enjoy? The stellar performances, the inspired dialogue, or the ground-breaking story?

Its a fun movie, and a rare space opera adventure (a mish-mash of This Island Earth, Star Wars). I think you'll find a lot of people who grew up in the 80s have a soft spot for it, though I admit, its no classic, and doesn't wind up in my top 15 SF of the decade. Its also significantly less dumb than most modern action/SF.

RAMA

Plus, of course, you had Robert Preston is a lot of fun in that movie, basically doing a scifi riff on his character from "The Music Man."

As I recall, it's a sweet, charming little space opera with a lot of heart.

I guess these days its no good unless Centauri turns out to be a bad guy and stabs the hero in the last scene. Yes, I think heart separated it a bit from others as well.

RAMA

 

[mswood]

SFX is just one aspect of a visual production, set design, dressing, lighting, costumes, makeup are all tools to help enhance the environment.

All basically designed to let the audience get immersed in the fictional environment.

Since most media isn't great, heck most isn't even good. Most things need all the help they can get.

And of course you view through the era.

But for me 85% of the battle is writing, direction and acting. If you are nailing those three things. Then the production could be in a bathtub and it will hold my attention.

The only problem is so little of media actually nails those three aspects of the visual medium.

 

[Gojira]

The only problem is so little of media actually nails those three aspects of the visual medium.

You must be a discontented viewer the majority of the time then.

 

[Silvercrest]

I can also still watch The Last Starfighter and enjoy it
RAMA

What do you enjoy? The stellar performances, the inspired dialogue, or the ground-breaking story?

Its a fun movie, and a rare space opera adventure (a mish-mash of This Island Earth, Star Wars). I think you'll find a lot of people who grew up in the 80s have a soft spot for it, though I admit, its no classic, and doesn't wind up in my top 15 SF of the decade. Its also significantly less dumb than most modern action/SF.

RAMA

All true, particularly the last point. And I grew up in the 80s. "Soft spot" may be overstating it... but I do have a DVD.

 

[G2309]

Part of my enjoyment of old shows is the igenuity itself in creating an affect. You don't have the rough thinking on your feet feel in new films.

I felt the model work in the 2009 film Moon was so good along with the lighting that I felt it looked very realistic and made the story that much more believable and it could have been shot in the 1970s instead of 2008.
Pro model builders & filmmakers were hired for those FX sequences.

I haven't seen that will have to check it out.

 

[wildstar]

Nope. Bad stories do.
It could be stick figures for all I care.

 

[MacLeod]

Its a fun movie, and a rare space opera adventure (a mish-mash of This Island Earth, Star Wars). I think you'll find a lot of people who grew up in the 80s have a soft spot for it, though I admit, its no classic, and doesn't wind up in my top 15 SF of the decade. Its also significantly less dumb than most modern action/SF.

RAMA

Plus, of course, you had Robert Preston is a lot of fun in that movie, basically doing a scifi riff on his character from "The Music Man."

As I recall, it's a sweet, charming little space opera with a lot of heart.

Always trust Centauri

Wasn't that lesson number 2?

Recently picked up Last Starfighter on blu-ray, as it had never been released on DVD in R2, had to wait for the region free blu-ray.

 

[Goliath]

I don't remember ever watching a movie or show that was "ruined" by bad special effects.

But crude and unconvincing special effects can be distracting, and can momentarily lessen my enjoyment of a film. It's a lot like the boom mike suddenly bobbing down into the frame: it throws me out of the movie.

The most obvious example I can think of is the shot of Dick Jones falling to his death at the end of Robocop:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mD5jhOD6qY[/yt]

That was a very poor visual effect, even for its time, and I still remember thinking "WTF?" in the theatre. I seem to remember reading that it was a rush job, and the filmmakers themselves were unhappy with it.

The rest of the effects in that clip look fine to me, even though the ED-209 is obviously either a stop-motion animation model, or a prop.

There was a rather crude visual effect close to the end of The Exorcist as well, right before Father Karras throws himself out the window. The filmmakers replaced it with a digital effect in the Special Edition.

But this isn't a problem unique to special effects. Just about anything can have this distracting effect, if it's executed poorly enough--like the aforementioned boom mike. The scene where Boomer (no pun intended) shoots Admiral Adama at the end of Season One of nuBSG, for example, was very poorly executed, and involved no visual effects at all--just bad staging and bad cutting.