Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
You need Captain America. Leader, Strategist, Moral Compass.
Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel, DVD
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
You could argue that Cap help make the Avengers popular but making him a founder is just wrong. He was not in issue #1. By your logic that would make Abraham Lincoln a Founding Father. Also the Hulk leaves after the first issue, which also by your logic means he shouldn't even be in the Avengers.
You can still have Cap in a later Avengers movie but the point is more Cap movies set in WWII which I think would be better than him in the Avengers. I'm beginning to agree with people that Marvel is being too strict with their plans for the Avengers. They could easily wait and have a few more sequels for Iron Man, Cap and Thor and maybe bring in Ant man and Wasp. No one is exactly screaming out for an Avengers movie RIGHT NOW.
You could argue that Cap help make the Avengers popular but making him a founder is just wrong. He was not in issue #1. By your logic that would make Abraham Lincoln a Founding Father. Also the Hulk leaves after the first issue, which also by your logic means he shouldn't even be in the Avengers.
You can still have Cap in a later Avengers movie but the point is more Cap movies set in WWII which I think would be better than him in the Avengers. I'm beginning to agree with people that Marvel is being too strict with their plans for the Avengers. They could easily wait and have a few more sequels for Iron Man, Cap and Thor and maybe bring in Ant man and Wasp. No one is exactly screaming out for an Avengers movie RIGHT NOW.
Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
Eventually yes but the point is he can always be brought in later. As for Leader and Strategist, you have Nick Fury. As for Moral Compass, Iron Man and Thor have decent working compass so you don't need a shinning light like Cap right now.
Eventually yes but the point is he can always be brought in later. As for Leader and Strategist, you have Nick Fury. As for Moral Compass, Iron Man and Thor have decent working compass so you don't need a shinning light like Cap right now.
Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
There nothing to prevent Marvel from producing more Cap movies set in WWII.
Marvel thinks of him as a founder. So do people "in-universe" in the MU.
There nothing to prevent Marvel from producing more Cap movies set in WWII.
Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
What Marvel thinks is irrelevant. The facts are right there in their publication history. If Marvel wants Cap in the Avengers that's fine but they shouldn't make up some BS excuse.
Except for the fact that he's in our time abruptly concluding his adventures in WWII. Sure they could do a flashback but movie audiences aren't that sophisticated (aka they are stupid) and it wouldn't work.
What Marvel thinks is irrelevant. The facts are right there in their publication history. If Marvel wants Cap in the Avengers that's fine but they shouldn't make up some BS excuse.
Except for the fact that he's in our time abruptly concluding his adventures in WWII. Sure they could do a flashback but movie audiences aren't that sophisticated (aka they are stupid) and it wouldn't work.
Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
Well, the thing is, these movies aren't the books. Ant-Man and Wasp should be in the movie, but they're not. Nick Fury shouldn't be in the movie, but he is. Neither should Hawkeye or Black Widow. Also, Iron Man's armor should be bulky and completely gold if we're going by Avengers #1, but I'm pretty sure it won't be.
Hell, they probably could have made an Avengers movie work without Captain America. But they would prefer that he's in it because he is a popular character and he is very much associated with the comic book. It's a change born from creative and (likely) financial considerations - and it's only one of many changes. And I can think of worse things they could have done.
Plus, I've noticed they're basing the new movie more on the recent Ultimates series than the classic Avengers storyline. I'm not the biggest fan of Millar's work, but in that one, Cap was very much a founding member of the team.
Well, the thing is, these movies aren't the books. Ant-Man and Wasp should be in the movie, but they're not. Nick Fury shouldn't be in the movie, but he is. Neither should Hawkeye or Black Widow. Also, Iron Man's armor should be bulky and completely gold if we're going by Avengers #1, but I'm pretty sure it won't be.
Hell, they probably could have made an Avengers movie work without Captain America. But they would prefer that he's in it because he is a popular character and he is very much associated with the comic book. It's a change born from creative and (likely) financial considerations - and it's only one of many changes. And I can think of worse things they could have done.
Plus, I've noticed they're basing the new movie more on the recent Ultimates series than the classic Avengers storyline. I'm not the biggest fan of Millar's work, but in that one, Cap was very much a founding member of the team.
Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
Its in what they published. When they show the statue of the Avengers founders in comics Cap is usually front and center. Think of Avengers 1-4 as an origin arc if you must.
I think they'll figure it out. There's a time gap between Cap's rescue of the Howlers and his being frozen. Most folks will not care that he was shown waking up in the present at the end of CA: TFA. That kind of thinking is the province of nitpickers, who are not the bulk of any movies' audience.
Its in what they published. When they show the statue of the Avengers founders in comics Cap is usually front and center. Think of Avengers 1-4 as an origin arc if you must.
I think they'll figure it out. There's a time gap between Cap's rescue of the Howlers and his being frozen. Most folks will not care that he was shown waking up in the present at the end of CA: TFA. That kind of thinking is the province of nitpickers, who are not the bulk of any movies' audience.
Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
Got to see this today and I loved it. The movie was fun and without the cynicism that underlays a lot of action films. Great fun and I am looking forward to the Avengers. Cap, Thor, and Ironman I am looking forward to it.
Got to see this today and I loved it. The movie was fun and without the cynicism that underlays a lot of action films. Great fun and I am looking forward to the Avengers. Cap, Thor, and Ironman I am looking forward to it.
Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
Tony Stark as a moral compass? Did you watch the two "Iron Man" movies Yminale? Especially in the sequel Tony was anything but a moral compass in fact his character arc was part of him growing into the hero we all know him to be. Anyways having THREE Captain America period piece films would be fine theoretically but I very much doubt you would be able to hold your audience through all three of those films. You could maybe get away with doing two period piece films before they got bored.
You need Captain America in your first "Avengers" film no matter what publication history and continuity dictate in 616. This film is using both universe's origins it would seem from what we've read and seen. As others have said in this thread you need Cap. He's the heart and soul of the team. He's the military strategist. The living legend. Plus he's one of the characters that fans will be looking forward to most seeing.
Tony Stark as a moral compass? Did you watch the two "Iron Man" movies Yminale? Especially in the sequel Tony was anything but a moral compass in fact his character arc was part of him growing into the hero we all know him to be. Anyways having THREE Captain America period piece films would be fine theoretically but I very much doubt you would be able to hold your audience through all three of those films. You could maybe get away with doing two period piece films before they got bored.
You need Captain America in your first "Avengers" film no matter what publication history and continuity dictate in 616. This film is using both universe's origins it would seem from what we've read and seen. As others have said in this thread you need Cap. He's the heart and soul of the team. He's the military strategist. The living legend. Plus he's one of the characters that fans will be looking forward to most seeing.
Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
Thor's moral compass was first born in his movie, his lack of one was why Odin banished him. Whether it's fully matured is open to debate.
Ummm, you don't see the irony in complaining that Captain America wasn't a founder, and then suggesting Nick Fury covers the role?
Tony Stark, as depicted in the films, is a narcissist. As depicted in the comics, he's lately been well written and interesting, but hardly with a clear moral compass.
Thor's moral compass was first born in his movie, his lack of one was why Odin banished him. Whether it's fully matured is open to debate.
Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
Exploring the "man out of time" angle is one of the most important parts of his character; no way would it make sense to do three movies in World War II.
Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
Well you can make up any lame excuse you want but it states explicitly that Avengers was founded in issue #1 and Cap is not there.
The problem is the next movie Cap is shown is The Avengers not Cap 2 so even if you decide to do a period piece people will still notice it. People are dumb but not that dumb.
Well you can make up any lame excuse you want but it states explicitly that Avengers was founded in issue #1 and Cap is not there.
The problem is the next movie Cap is shown is The Avengers not Cap 2 so even if you decide to do a period piece people will still notice it. People are dumb but not that dumb.
Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
There's no reason for the general audience to notice or care about either of these points. The movie says Cap is 'The First Avenger' that's all they'll care about- Cap, Ironman and Thor and whomever else they cast will be the founding Avengers.
Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
First superhero movie enjoyed since IM. Nice pacing and balance of humour and action, great production design. They should make all future tyro directors watch this before they let them loose on set.
First superhero movie enjoyed since IM. Nice pacing and balance of humour and action, great production design. They should make all future tyro directors watch this before they let them loose on set.
Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
Yes there was the whole character arc about Tony learning to be a better person. Honestly Marvel isn't going to expose the characters to huge moral conundrum like Civil War where you need Cap's clear eyed view of things.
You've got to be kidding me. WWII lasted 4 yrs for the US. You seriously think you can't find plots for 3 movies over those 4 years. Mind you, Band of Brothers had 10 75 minute episodes and that's a real unit in ONE theater of the war. Cap served in both theaters. Plus he was running around with the original Human Torch and the Sub-mariner.
Wow you must find the original trilogy of Star Wars boring because it's one group of rebels fighting in one war.
No ones has given me a good reason outside of "we want to see him there". He can still be in the Avengers but just not in the first one. Cap has such a rich back story before the Avengers, it's a shame not to explore it.
Yes there was the whole character arc about Tony learning to be a better person. Honestly Marvel isn't going to expose the characters to huge moral conundrum like Civil War where you need Cap's clear eyed view of things.
You've got to be kidding me. WWII lasted 4 yrs for the US. You seriously think you can't find plots for 3 movies over those 4 years. Mind you, Band of Brothers had 10 75 minute episodes and that's a real unit in ONE theater of the war. Cap served in both theaters. Plus he was running around with the original Human Torch and the Sub-mariner.
Wow you must find the original trilogy of Star Wars boring because it's one group of rebels fighting in one war.
No ones has given me a good reason outside of "we want to see him there". He can still be in the Avengers but just not in the first one. Cap has such a rich back story before the Avengers, it's a shame not to explore it.
Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
First Cap has a rich back story before Avengers. Just because it's relatively unknown doesn't mean it isn't important.
Second how much exploring the "man out of time" angle is going to be done in an ensemble piece like The Avengers (plus it's funnier and more effective when it was done with Thor).
Third original Cap (not Ultimate Cap) was always shown to be ahead of the curve (plus he was exposed to all that super Nazis science) he's not going to be a total fish out water.
First Cap has a rich back story before Avengers. Just because it's relatively unknown doesn't mean it isn't important.
Second how much exploring the "man out of time" angle is going to be done in an ensemble piece like The Avengers (plus it's funnier and more effective when it was done with Thor).
Third original Cap (not Ultimate Cap) was always shown to be ahead of the curve (plus he was exposed to all that super Nazis science) he's not going to be a total fish out water.
Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
I never said that you couldn't find plots for three World War II films. Comparing a trilogy to a mini-series like Band of Brothers doesn't work in this case. A television series has a lot more latitude for plot points and character development. You are on a tight leash (for lack of a better term) with the structure of a feature film.
Secondly you are factoring in the comics way too much with your argument. We all know that film adaptions restrain themselves with how much source material they are able to use for the reasons I stated above: plot points, time restraints, etc.
Thirdly, I love the Star Wars trilogy and that is not the same thing as what Marvel Studios is doing and you know it.
I don't know why you bring up Civil War with your argument about Tony. They're introducing the character the start of his career as Iron Man. This has nothing to do with Marvel not wanting to explore the issues that Civil War explored. I don't get what you were trying to say.
Overall having three Captain America movies in theory sounds like a good idea but for the strategy that Marvel Studios has employed with launching their single shared film continuity that culminates with the "Avengers" is just not practical. They want Cap for their film. Dismissing what Marvel wants is not a logical reason for arguing that they should have gone with a trilogy before introducing him in "Avengers 2" or whatever.
I never said that you couldn't find plots for three World War II films. Comparing a trilogy to a mini-series like Band of Brothers doesn't work in this case. A television series has a lot more latitude for plot points and character development. You are on a tight leash (for lack of a better term) with the structure of a feature film.
Secondly you are factoring in the comics way too much with your argument. We all know that film adaptions restrain themselves with how much source material they are able to use for the reasons I stated above: plot points, time restraints, etc.
Thirdly, I love the Star Wars trilogy and that is not the same thing as what Marvel Studios is doing and you know it.
I don't know why you bring up Civil War with your argument about Tony. They're introducing the character the start of his career as Iron Man. This has nothing to do with Marvel not wanting to explore the issues that Civil War explored. I don't get what you were trying to say.
Overall having three Captain America movies in theory sounds like a good idea but for the strategy that Marvel Studios has employed with launching their single shared film continuity that culminates with the "Avengers" is just not practical. They want Cap for their film. Dismissing what Marvel wants is not a logical reason for arguing that they should have gone with a trilogy before introducing him in "Avengers 2" or whatever.
Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
"First" implies he was active before everybody else which is true.
Second I doubt most people know who the Avengers are and their back story. Outside of Marvel's marketing, there was no expectation that Cap be in the Avengers.
"First" implies he was active before everybody else which is true.
Second I doubt most people know who the Avengers are and their back story. Outside of Marvel's marketing, there was no expectation that Cap be in the Avengers.
Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,
Nor any expectation that he wouldn't. It's Marvel's playground, so unless you've got the money to buy Marvel from Disney or both together he's going to be a founding member of the Avengers.