Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel, DVD

[Yminale]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

A television series has a lot more latitude for plot points and character development. You are on a tight leash (for lack of a better term) with the structure of a feature film.

Cap is a comic book hero. You have nothing but latitude. I mean you can literally have Cap going to the Moon to fight the Evil Nazis Gerbil and his flatulence ray. As for character development, that's the whole point. It was rushed in the movie and very little will be done in The Avengers.

Secondly you are factoring in the comics way too much with your argument. We all know that film adaptions restrain themselves with how much source material they are able to use for the reasons I stated above: plot points, time restraints, etc.

I'm just using the comics to shows that it was done differently and there was no ill effects.

I don't know why you bring up Civil War with your argument about Tony.

My point is that Tony and Thor are more than capable of discerning Right and Wrong at this point with the basic plot Marvel has set up. Cap is really important when there is moral ambiguity (you know Civil War) and I doubt Marvel will ever get that far.

Dismissing what Marvel wants is not a logical reason for arguing that they should have gone with a trilogy before introducing him in "Avengers 2" or whatever.

But one can criticize Marvel for missing a golden opportunity. Like I said, their plan for Avengers was just too inflexible. I think Cap (and you can also apply this to Thor) would benefit from the extra development a sequel can bring.

 

[Vendikarr]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

The Avengers only lasted a full three issues before Captain America showed up. For all intents and purposes, he is a founding member.

You could argue that Cap help make the Avengers popular but making him a founder is just wrong. He was not in issue #1. By your logic that would make Abraham Lincoln a Founding Father. Also the Hulk leaves after the first issue, which also by your logic means he shouldn't even be in the Avengers.

Anyways, he's probably more closely identified with the team than even Thor and Iron Man are. And you can't have a multi-million dollar blockbuster Avengers movie without Cap. Not because of a mere three issues.

You can still have Cap in a later Avengers movie but the point is more Cap movies set in WWII which I think would be better than him in the Avengers. I'm beginning to agree with people that Marvel is being too strict with their plans for the Avengers. They could easily wait and have a few more sequels for Iron Man, Cap and Thor and maybe bring in Ant man and Wasp. No one is exactly screaming out for an Avengers movie RIGHT NOW.

Well it's a good thing that these movies are only based on the comics, and aren't required to follow them to the letter. Changes get made for movies all the time. This is a change I agree with. The Avengers without Cap is like your morning cereal without milk.

And perhaps in the movie it will be shown that the Avengers have been on one or two missions before Cap shows up, and they were disasters. It's not like Nick Fury was waiting 70 years in the event Captain America could show up.

 

[Yminale]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Nor any expectation that he wouldn't. It's Marvel's playground,

So what ?! That doesn't make them immune to criticism. I wouldn't be surprised that some in Marvel are face palming right now since they may have a lost another franchise like Spider-man.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Nor any expectation that he wouldn't. It's Marvel's playground,

So what ?! That doesn't make them immune to criticism. I wouldn't be surprised that some in Marvel are face palming right now since they may have a lost another franchise like Spider-man.

You say that like they couldn't do another movie. Fortunately, they can.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

First Cap has a rich back story before Avengers. Just because it's relatively unknown doesn't mean it isn't important.

Hence, why it got a full movie before putting him in the the modern day, where 50+ years of his stories have been primarily set.

Second how much exploring the "man out of time" angle is going to be done in an ensemble piece like The Avengers

Probably not a huge amount; hence, why Cap sequels will be very useful for that.

 

[Yminale]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

You say that like they couldn't do another movie. Fortunately, they can.

Yeah but it will fail. Cap in modern times doesn't work. I remember in the 90's when people called Cap irrelevant and obsolete compared to the anti-social psychopaths that were popular then (Wolverine and the Punisher). What's acceptable in the past just doesn't translate to present.

Seriously does Cap have any moral relevance in a country where the majority supports torture and half the country hates the president because of the color of his skin. You know what kind of controversy you would generate if you sent Cap to fight Islamic terrorists.

 

[Yminale]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Hence, why it got a full movie before putting him in the the modern day, where 50+ years of his stories have been primarily set.

Everybody has complained that the last half of the movie (where Cap is you know heroic) felt rushed. That's the whole point

Probably not a huge amount; hence, why Cap sequels will be very useful for that.

You know harsh audience would react to that. They be yelling "Get over it loser". Critics will be wondering why Cap has issues when he shown none during Avengers. It'll be a mess.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

You say that like they couldn't do another movie. Fortunately, they can.

Yeah but it will fail. Cap in modern times doesn't work. I remember in the 90's when people called Cap irrelevant and obsolete compared to the anti-social psychopaths that were popular then (Wolverine and the Punisher). What's acceptable in the past just doesn't translate to present.

Seriously does Cap have any moral relevance in a country where the majority supports torture and half the country hates the president because of the color of his skin. You know what kind of controversy you would generate if you sent Cap to fight Islamic terrorists.

Fail? Current ticket sales say otherwise. The rest of your rant here is irrelevant.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

You know harsh audience would react to that. They be yelling "Get over it loser". Critics will be wondering why Cap has issues when he shown none during Avengers. It'll be a mess.

You presume that he won't be showing any issues in The Avengers, whereas the teaser suggested the opposite is true. The sequel can simply have more spacev to explore them and hopefully have him find a bit of happiness in the new world (probably involving Peggy's hot grand-niece).

Yeah but it will fail. Cap in modern times doesn't work.

He's been working in modern times for 50 years now.

Seriously does Cap have any moral relevance in a country where the majority supports torture and half the country hates the president because of the color of his skin.

Oh come now. He came from a time when Obama would have had to use separate bathroom facilities in much of the country.

 

[Yminale]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Fail? Current ticket sales say otherwise. The rest of your rant here is irrelevant.

First past results do not guarantee future success.

Second we're talking about a totally different movie

Third you haven't proven that audiences will accept a Cap movie set in modern times.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Third you haven't proven that audiences will accept a Cap movie set in modern times.

The fact that the character has been depicted in modern times with huge success in multiple media for going on 50 years now suggests it shouldn't be a problem. Particularly since The Avengers will already have him in modern times.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

I'm pretty sure fans are excited about "Captain America 2" and "Avengers" which one can logically assume will be set in modern times. Who is "everyone" when you talk about complaining the second movie felt rushed? I certainly did not think that.

Yiminale, as passionate as you seem to be about this particular argument I'm afraid you most likely will not get anyone to agree with you no matter how hard you continue to press your point.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Fail? Current ticket sales say otherwise. The rest of your rant here is irrelevant.

First past results do not guarantee future success.

Second we're talking about a totally different movie

Third you haven't proven that audiences will accept a Cap movie set in modern times.

First, life's a bitch that way, but the current movie's success makes a sequel quite likely.

Second, who knows what your talking about?

Third, I don't have to prove anything, it's Marvel's game and The Avengers is next up.

 

[Yminale]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

You presume that he won't be showing any issues in The Avengers, whereas the teaser suggested the opposite is true.

If it's touched at all it'll be a blink and you'll miss it moment.

Alternatively, I really don't remember Cap being in the future was a big deal to him. He just rolled with it.

He's been working in modern times for 50 years now.

Cap was considered outdated 50 years ago. Sure he has a strong following but it's never been huge like Spider-man or Wolverine.

Oh come now. He came from a time when Obama would have had to use separate bathroom facilities in much of the country.

And half the country think that it was a good idea. Honestly do you really think modern Americans are going to respond to Cap's belief in freedom, equality and social justice. Most people would laugh at him and call him outdated if not ignoring him.

Like I said what works set in WWII won't work in the modern era.

 

[Yminale]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

I'm pretty sure fans are excited about "Captain America 2" and "Avengers" which one can logically assume will be set in modern times. Who is "everyone" when you talk about complaining the second movie felt rushed? I certainly did not think that.

The critics and many of the posters on this thread and others. It's really the only serious flaw in an excellent film.

Yminale, as passionate as you seem to be about this particular argument I'm afraid you most likely will not get anyone to agree with you no matter how hard you continue to press your point.

I don't care if anyone agrees with me and I know the course is set. What I won't be is browbeaten to accept the current course is optimal.

Marvel had a chance to make something great with Cap and instead they decided to make him another comic book action star. Their loss.

 

[Warped9]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

The only part of the film that felt a bit rushed to me was the taking down of Hydra. It came across as if they were just knocking over their installations one by one without any serious resistance or setbacks.

 

[Yminale]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

First, life's a bitch that way, but the current movie's success makes a sequel quite likely.

The sequel is already in the works. My point is that it won't succeed like the first movie.

Third, I don't have to prove anything, it's Marvel's game and The Avengers is next up.

Bowing to authority is the worse argument you can make. Just because someone is set in their course of action doesn't mean you can't criticize.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

First, life's a bitch that way, but the current movie's success makes a sequel quite likely.

The sequel is already in the works. My point is that it won't succeed like the first movie.

Third, I don't have to prove anything, it's Marvel's game and The Avengers is next up.

Bowing to authority is the worse argument you can make. Just because someone is set in their course of action doesn't mean you can't criticize.

So, your opinion masquerading as fact is the be all and end all that we and Marvel should adhere to?

 

[CaptainCanada]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Alternatively, I really don't remember Cap being in the future was a big deal to him. He just rolled with it.

It's been a fairly major theme with the character.

Cap was considered outdated 50 years ago. Sure he has a strong following but it's never been huge like Spider-man or Wolverine.

Most characters don't. So what?

Honestly do you really think modern Americans are going to respond to Cap's belief in freedom, equality and social justice.

They seem to be responding well to him so far.

Moreover, the whole damn point of Captain America is that he's "out of time" and arrives in an age that is more cynical than his own in some ways. What you're describing is the crux of his character conflict, a concept that is played with in numerous movies already. Audiences will already be introduced to him a modern setting in The Avengers.

 

[Captain Craig]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Seriously does Cap have any moral relevance in a country where the majority supports torture and half the country hates the president because of the color of his skin.

What a fail statement. You only show your own narrow minded bigotry with such a statement. Half the country, let me guess ALL Republicans. Dislike wouldn't possibly be tied AT ALL to his and his parties policies or vision. No, not at all HALF dislike him cause he's black. Puuuulease.


Seriously guys Yminale just needs to be ignored at this point. His passion and views on this aren't serving any purpose.