Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel, DVD

[Broccoli]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Just saw it. I'm probably one of the biggest Cap fans out there, and I was completely disappointed. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't good either. It is like the production team got together and asked themselves "How can we make the most forgettable movie ever?"

Are you sure you weren't watching a rerun of the Matt Salinger version?

This movie is superb. Squeaks past Iron Man as my favorite superhero movie ever.

No. The 1990 movie was trash. This was just underwhelming. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't good either.

The story was pretty thin with several glaring plot holes which broke my suspension of disbelief (for example, we go from Cap, who has not had any true military service yet, saving the POWs to leading armies and telling generals and other officers when to do - when did he become a master strategist?).

There was no sense of immediacy in the movie as I never felt that any of the characters were in any true jeopardy and were, instead, just going through the motions. The green screen effects were a little too Sky Captain for a film that was mostly grounded. And the fight scenes were a little to Batman & Robin with bodies crazily flying everywhere.

Red Skull was incredibly weak as a character and there really wasn't any personal connection between him and Cap to really make me care about their face-off. That was a big problem, there was little in the story to make me care about what I was seeing.

You go in, might enjoy yourself for the two hours, but then instantly forget it once you leave the theater.

Again, not a bad movie, but not a good one either.

 

[Captain Craig]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Not "take time off"
"Expand on the other Hydra missions" that are seen as montage during this movie. That would've covered several weeks if not months.

Yes. The implication was that it took Cap the better part of several months (if not longer) to actually find Red Skull before the final battle and, during that time, he and the Howlers (including Bucky) had successfully taken out a number of other Hydra bases as part of their effort at stopping him.

Actually Johnston, the director, stated that cap takes place over a three year period of WW2 , so it takes a few months to get steve rogers geared up into cap mode, and then the montage covers a few years of time, then the finale.

If that's the case then could we conclude that the "1st kiss" we saw might not have been their first. He just never did learn to dance.
Also, it allows much more room for other characters like Zemo to be introduced.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

If that's the case then could we conclude that the "1st kiss" we saw might not have been their first. He just never did learn to dance.

No, there's really not any room in the Steve/Peggy relationship as presented here for other romantic interludes. It has a very clear arc, and it would undermine the ending to have it be otherwise.

 

[Captain Craig]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

If that's the case then could we conclude that the "1st kiss" we saw might not have been their first. He just never did learn to dance.

No, there's really not any room in the Steve/Peggy relationship as presented here for other romantic interludes. It has a very clear arc, and it would undermine the ending to have it be otherwise.

I agree it would. Question is would they respect that in a sequel and still show a Steve/Peggy relationship as "unfullfilled". If they did it right it would only reinforce the feelings of how that first movie ends.

 

[FPAlpha]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Just saw it and maybe i need time to digest but first impression is something between B and C for a few reasons.

From worst to very good

- the score was god awful

I've rarely heard a worse score in my life and i'm a guy who usually treats the score as background noise and hardly notices it unless it's really good (Lord Of the Rings, all John Williams' scores) but this one takes the cake. i get the intention.. being all heroic and that but it fails miserably, it amps up sometimes at the totally wrong moment and overdoes it at other. Just plain bad.

- Hugo Weaving/Red Skull

Huge fan of Weaving, he's an excellent actor but in this they dropped the ball to take advantage of his talent and skill. Beginning with the accent (painfully bad for german speaking folk like me) and ending with the absolute one dimensionality of the character. He was evil just because was the feeling i got.. he was the template for all cartoon villains and he would have fit right in with Saturday morning Warner Brothers cartoons just not that funny. Look to Ledger's Joker on how to do a proper, engaging and terrifying villain.


On to the good stuff

- Chris Evans / Steve Rogers

Pitch perfect is all i can say.. he embodied the role and made it his own much like Robert Downey Jr. is now Tony Stark or Christoper Reeve owns Superman. I absolutely adored skinny Steve and his forceful need to be part of something bigger, to serve his country and fight for what is right. He came across so believable and you couldn't but help root for him even after he gets turned down time and time again. It was so sad to see him struggle and Evans played it perfectly (props to the Special Effects guys for skinny Steve too.. amazing effect). I also loved the scenes with him as Captain America where he was still this humble guy (who could lift motorcycles with people on it) and especially when dealing with women where all his training and physique couldn't help him (a bastard guy would know how to exploit that and sleep around every chance he got). So while Batman got the amazing Heath Ledger to play the villain this movie got Evans to play Cap and it is good.


The not so good but tolerable

Well.. that covers the rest of the movie. As with all introduction movies it has to wander a fine line between introducing the characters and making us care for them vs. plot and action. You will never be able to satisfy everybody so with me those movies get judged a bit less because you just can't cram everything into 2 hours. With this movie i saw a solid action movie with some great ideas and some really bad ones (Red Skull was just bad.. no denying it) but overall it was enjoyable and engaging. Some plotholes i just couldn't get over (you have the one and only result of a highly experimental procedure and you waste him on PR? You could have put any physically fit guy into these pajamas and go) but those were made up by other things.. the Howling Commandos were awesome (good thing they opted not to include Fury since that would have been very odd in that reality) as was Bucky Barnes. Given that most modern comic book movies tend to include realism to some extent (no extreme flashy costumes for one) i liked it that Bucky wasn't a teenager here like he was in the comics. It may fly in comics to have a 16 year old fighting on the front in high risk engagements but it wouldn't in these movies so him being a grown up was fitting (and nice way to "kill" him off.. if there's not a body and all that ).

So a solid movie that could have been a disaster if not for Evans as Captain America. Definitely looking forward to his own movie sequel (i suppose the Avengers will not deal much with Rogers' own struggles) and how he adapts to our modern world. Part of what makes Cap interesting is that he acts as a mirror and conscience because he was raised as this straight up, all american guy from the greatest generation who gets to examine the world several generations away and how we have changed and maybe compromised ourselves and our values. If they explore that to a degree in the sequel and do it well i'll be happy.

 

[davejames]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Actually Johnston, the director, stated that cap takes place over a three year period of WW2 , so it takes a few months to get steve rogers geared up into cap mode, and then the montage covers a few years of time, then the finale.

I wish the movie did a better job getting that idea across. Because at the most, it felt like the montage covered maybe a few months, not years.

Especially considering that Rogers doesn't seem all that terribly different or more mature from when he started.

 

[Captain Craig]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

^^^^
Agreed. Perhaps one of those "calendar flipping" moments that also would've fit with the time period. Something that showed a more obvious amount of time passing. I think we all agree some weeks if not months passed. But years?

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

I saw the movie this weekend. It was fun, entertaining, and ultimately forgettable.

These Marvel movies aren't very ambitious are they?

Creatively, I mean, not in terms of setting up a franchise (Avengers, which is pretty ambitious).

Thor was the same way. Fun movie, entertaining enough, barely memorable a few days later.

It's fun to see these guys on the big screen, and it's nice not to have sh-t movies, but it's kind of hard to 'go crazy' over movies that feel so generic and "lightweight".

 

[Tyberius]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

...good thing they opted not to include Fury since that would have been very odd in that reality...

You know, I thought they would, and still hope that they do, reveal Gabe to be Fury.

 

[flemm]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

It's fun to see these guys on the big screen, and it's nice not to have sh-t movies, but it's kind of hard to 'go crazy' over movies that feel so generic and "lightweight".

I basically agree with this assessment. These are solid, entertaining movies, and I'm cool with that. They aren't amazing, though.

Marvel studios will have to raise the bar for Avengers in order for that film to not seem underwhelming, and I'm sure they know that.

It will interesting to see where the studio goes from there, however, in movies like IM3, Thor 2 and Cap 2, whether it's more of the same, or whether they try to be a bit more ambitious creatively within each individual film.

 

[Captain Craig]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

I saw the movie this weekend. It was fun, entertaining, and ultimately forgettable.

These Marvel movies aren't very ambitious are they?

To each is own.
I can't quote a single line from Inception, Avatar, Black Swan, Kings Speech or No Country for Old Men(all movies I've seen). Movies that I guess are seen as ambitious by some. However, I can Marvel Movies/comic book films.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

It's fun to see these guys on the big screen, and it's nice not to have sh-t movies, but it's kind of hard to 'go crazy' over movies that feel so generic and "lightweight".

I basically agree with this assessment. These are solid, entertaining movies, and I'm cool with that. They aren't amazing, though.

Marvel studios will have to raise the bar for Avengers in order for that film to not seem underwhelming, and I'm sure they know that.

It will interesting to see where the studio goes from there, however, in movies like IM3, Thor 2 and Cap 2, whether it's more of the same, or whether they try to be a bit more ambitious creatively within each individual film.

I think Marvel Studios is trying to establish a consistent brand for its films; they're all fairly similar in feel, they've got good casts, good focus on their main characters, generally solid production values. Of course, the Avengers franchise concept is a fairly risky creative endeavour on its own, so I can see why they're adopting this approach.

 

[davejames]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

These Marvel movies aren't very ambitious are they?

I agree a lot of these Marvel movies HAVE felt a bit bland and safe, but I thought Captain America was a few steps higher in quality than those.

It's no great work of art, but it's the first one since Iron Man that felt to me like it could have stood on it's OWN, without being part of some larger universe.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

I'll agree with many of the above sentiments, a solid, entertaining and enjoyable movie. Definately helps an afternoon go by, but not really very memorable. Although there were a lot of great one-liners, especially from Tommy Lee Jones. Also, I thought they did a pretty good job with making Howard Stark resemble Robert Downey Jr enough that you would almost think the actors are related. Nick Fury's cameo was also fun.

I thought it kind of cool that Red Skull had a mixture of 1940s tech (particular his digital clocks) and modern day. Sepia-toned CCTV is also kind of neat.

One thing troubling me, so this drug turns Steve Rogers from scrawny tigman into buff and muscular Captain America, but where does he get the training to do ahlf the stuff he does. Fighting is not as easy as it looks, and if you're used to having your ass handed to you all the time, you aren't going to suddenly be able to beat a trained enemy soldier just because you've suddenly grown muscles. Likewise, riding a zipline and jumping onto a moving train takes a lot of skill. Do we seriously believe that a nobody who has done nothing physical in his life is going to know how to do that after magically obtaining muscles?

I know, it's a silly thing to nitpick, and probably not the movie's fault. This could easily have been something from the comics that's just been made part of the movie. But it bothered me all the same.

 

[od0_ital]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

^

Steve was in basic trainin' as part of the program before gettin' the treatment to become Captain America. He wasn't very good at it, obviously, but he was still there.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

^

Steve was in basic trainin' as part of the program before gettin' the treatment to become Captain America. He wasn't very good at it, obviously, but he was still there.

I was under the impression that he basically failed basic training and would have been discharged had he not been The One. Therefore, his capabilities should be questionable.

But even so, it takes time to develop the skills he had after becoming Captain America. Just because you've instantly grown muscles doesn't instantly make you an asskicking invincible unstoppable force.

Yeah, I know, realism and movies isn't a good mix, but still.

 

[od0_ital]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

^

He was failin' - he hadn't failed.

 

[davejames]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Well I think we're meant to believe that somewhere in that 3-year montage, he got the extra training he needed.

I agree it would have been nice to see that on screen though.

 

[Trevacious]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

I know, it's a silly thing to nitpick, and probably not the movie's fault. This could easily have been something from the comics that's just been made part of the movie. But it bothered me all the same.

In the comics, after he got his new body, Steve underwent extensive training in all forms of hand to hand combat and military tactics.

The problem for the movie's story there is that they initially didn't wanna use him as a soldier in the field. That changed only after the successful rescue of Bucky and the rest. After lucking out on that one, then I could imagine them having him back in training to expand his skills if he was gonna be a full-time field agent.

But I just filled in the blank and gave the movie a break there. They did point out that his brain seems to be enhanced as well as his body, so I could presume he would've picked up on these things very quickly.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Basic training during WWII was 10 weeks. However it involved a lot of rifle cleaning, marching and running that Steve wouldn't have needed.

Read about Camp X, the training camp for OSS (pre CIA) agents, training there was 1 month in duration. Ian Flemming was trained there and it's claimed he based James Bond on Sir William Stephenson whom he met there.

The scene in the movie where Steve is designing his uniform from Howard's carbon fibre and getting the vibranium shield, we can presume that there was few weeks there of preparation where he could be trained, possibly by Peggy.

Let's also not forget Steve was always a scrapper, he got beat up because he didn't have the muscle to back up his moves, that doesn't mean he didn't pick up any experience.

However I agree, overall a glimpse or a reference to him getting some hand-to-hand training would have been nice, and taken about 12 seconds.