It is just me, or is this episode totally disturbing. The character of Tuvix is creepy and yet endearing.
What do you think of Janeway's decision at the end?
What do you think of Janeway's decision at the end?
Tuvix
- Thread starter RoseDuneKat
- Start date
Such an interesting episode. Incredibly emotionally disturbing but fabulously written.
Tuvix was creepy, but he took the best qualities from Tuvok and Neelix and that's why he was so lovable.
Technically Tuvix did the murdering when he came to life. Sure he became sentient, but Janeway was trying to get her crew members back.
Tuvix was creepy, but he took the best qualities from Tuvok and Neelix and that's why he was so lovable.
Technically Tuvix did the murdering when he came to life. Sure he became sentient, but Janeway was trying to get her crew members back.
TUVIX THREAD!!!
A creepy, pervy sentient being who spent 20 minutes of the episode willingly helping Doc and Kim devise a "treatment" for his condition and another 20 scaring the absolute heck out of Kes.
Then he (and Doc) backed out in the eleventh hour and started waving the murder card (Eh, if I were him, I'd probably do the same thing... but still.) Doc apparently felt bad enough to stand off to the side and watch, but not bad enough to intervene. Kes was cool with it too, as long as the blood was on someone else's hands.
Really, though, I'm just cold-hearted about this because Tuvix completely freaks me out. He's as bad as that Fear clown.
It's no-win, though. The Starfleet way would have been to let Tuvix live, yeah. The question is if that was truly the best way, especially after the cat was out of the bag regarding a "cure."
A creepy, pervy sentient being who spent 20 minutes of the episode willingly helping Doc and Kim devise a "treatment" for his condition and another 20 scaring the absolute heck out of Kes.
Then he (and Doc) backed out in the eleventh hour and started waving the murder card (Eh, if I were him, I'd probably do the same thing... but still.) Doc apparently felt bad enough to stand off to the side and watch, but not bad enough to intervene. Kes was cool with it too, as long as the blood was on someone else's hands.
Really, though, I'm just cold-hearted about this because Tuvix completely freaks me out. He's as bad as that Fear clown.
It's no-win, though. The Starfleet way would have been to let Tuvix live, yeah. The question is if that was truly the best way, especially after the cat was out of the bag regarding a "cure."
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who's totally creeped out by that character. I agree that he is a very lovable guy, but so weird looking and creepy. I think I would have done the same thing. Yes, he was alive, but allowing him to live would have killed two individuals, verses the one that was killed by saving the two.
I'll say what I say during all of these threads (is it really time for another Tuvix thread already? Time files!), which is that Janeway committed first-degree murder, no two ways about it. Tuvix was an innocent, sentient life form who was killed for personal reasons.
This makes absolutely no sense. None at all. How can a being that didn't exist when two other beings died be responsible for their murder?
That's like charging an infant with murder because the mother died during child birth.
Didn't he erase two beings from existence?
That's murder.
With Tuvix alive there could be no Tuvok or Neelix, ergo he in a way murdered them.
As did the Transporter.
All I can say is that you have a really warped view of right and wrong. Tuvix, who did nothing is the murderer and Janeway was just trying to get her crew back. Mmkay
All I can say is that you have a really warped view of right and wrong. Tuvix, who did nothing is the murderer and Janeway was just trying to get her crew back. Mmkay
Tuvix spent a good part of the episode trying to find a way to bring them back and then when the time comes he backs out.
Yes, Janeway killed him. Which I never denied.
But it's a no-win scenario. If Tuvix lives then Tuvok and Neelix are dead. If she brings Tuvok and Neelix back then Tuvix dies.
So in a sense, like I was saying, Tuvix kills them. Not intentionally. Not like there was some bigger agenda, other than the producers wanting us to bicker about it for years to come, it just happened.
I had no idea this was so overly discussed. I just joined. Sorry.
Don't be shy. We've discussed all these things a million times before and we'll discuss them a million times again.
Fresh thoughts and opinions are always welcome.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. As soon as I saw the thread title, I could see the can of worms opening yet again.
But for the record, I didn't for a second think anyone was being killed, and I was dumbfounded to find that anyone thought that. The right decision was made. Two people were smooshed into one. They were then separated.
But for the record, I didn't for a second think anyone was being killed, and I was dumbfounded to find that anyone thought that. The right decision was made. Two people were smooshed into one. They were then separated.
The idea that *Tuvix* murdered Tuvok and Neelix is just ludicrous. He wasn't even alive when that happened. The transporter malfunction killed Tuvok and Neelix. And that's, honestly, a risk they all take by using the transporter.
Apart from that, I wouldn't have had a problem with Janeway's decision, had they placed Tuvix into a stasis chamber until they found a solution. But they allowed him to live, to grow his own personality and not just remain the sum of Tuvok and Neelix, to integrate into the crew, and that's when killing Tuvix became more than just fixing the problem but murder of an innocent lifeform for selfish reasons.
Apart from that, I wouldn't have had a problem with Janeway's decision, had they placed Tuvix into a stasis chamber until they found a solution. But they allowed him to live, to grow his own personality and not just remain the sum of Tuvok and Neelix, to integrate into the crew, and that's when killing Tuvix became more than just fixing the problem but murder of an innocent lifeform for selfish reasons.
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I think Tuvix had a right to life from the moment he came into existence. If he was willing to give up his life to bring Tuvok and Neelix back that is his choice to make. However if he ultimately chooses to exist as himself that is also his choice. Some people might see his desire as selfish but I don't think that simply wanting to exist as being all that selfish at all.
Tuvok and Neelix had ceased to exist as separate, individual beings and had been replaced by something akin to an offspring. The right to life of the proven sentient being (Tuvix) outweighed the right of Tuvok and Neelix to have their life restored. The Doctor knew that what Janeway did was wrong, he was programmed to see it as immoral.
And Kes who so much wanted Neelix back dumped him soon after.
Tuvok and Neelix had ceased to exist as separate, individual beings and had been replaced by something akin to an offspring. The right to life of the proven sentient being (Tuvix) outweighed the right of Tuvok and Neelix to have their life restored. The Doctor knew that what Janeway did was wrong, he was programmed to see it as immoral.
And Kes who so much wanted Neelix back dumped him soon after.
I don't have a problem with Janeway taking actions to end Tuvix and bring back Tuvok and Neelix.
The situation really is interesting. I don't think of Tuvix existing means Tuvok and Neelix are dead. When Tuvix came into existence, IF there is a way to know 100% at the time would Tuvok and Neelix want to be separated but Tuvix don't, what would you do?
Just because Tuvok and Neelix didn't have a "voice" during Tuvix's existence, does this make Tuvok and Neelix's voices invalid?
I think it's just Janeway based on her experiences know that Tuvok and Neelix would want to exist as separate instead of being Tuvix, and two lives is more than one... and took the corresponding actions.
The situation really is interesting. I don't think of Tuvix existing means Tuvok and Neelix are dead. When Tuvix came into existence, IF there is a way to know 100% at the time would Tuvok and Neelix want to be separated but Tuvix don't, what would you do?
Just because Tuvok and Neelix didn't have a "voice" during Tuvix's existence, does this make Tuvok and Neelix's voices invalid?
I think it's just Janeway based on her experiences know that Tuvok and Neelix would want to exist as separate instead of being Tuvix, and two lives is more than one... and took the corresponding actions.
Voyager was a gutsy show in some ways. You can almost hear the writers thinking, "Gene would never allow us to do this..." and that's where the discussion would end on TNG But for Voyager they went on..."but this is our show so lets do it anyway."
Maybe this episode was intended to shock people a bit. I think when a real person is faced with tough choices, they will often err on the side of personal feelings. It's a very human response. Friendship influences our choices.
Maybe this episode was intended to shock people a bit. I think when a real person is faced with tough choices, they will often err on the side of personal feelings. It's a very human response. Friendship influences our choices.
Saquist
Commodore
No...Murder requires an action. Tuvix took no action to terminate the lives of Tuvok or Neelix. That's comepletely irrational. You could blame babies for the Death of their mothers at birth.
The Transporter was the cause of their demise not Tuvix who had not yet existed yet. Causality much be observed.
