Learning to love "Insurrection"

[sonak]

I consider the entire escape from the Genesis wave to the explosion and formation of the planet to be an action sequence, and an 8 minute long one at that. Kirk has a knife fight with david in the cave. Terrel shoots someone and then himself. There are dead bodies and earworms everywhere - which is admittedly more horror but is still in the same, or possibly lower, visceral neighborhood. And the film starts by ¡Killing the entire bridge crew! That sets the tone of the movie. You're the only person I've ever spoken to that has made the claim that TWOK is not an action movie. So I kind of find this discussion a little odd and possibly facetious.

I wasn't saying that it's a slow and boring movie by any stretch, just that it has this reputation as one of the more "pure action" Trek movies, and I think that if you compared it to just about any other Trek movie except for TMP and TVH, you'd find it's not that different from them in terms of action. I don't think it's in the same league as far as action as FC or Star Trek XI, though.

But if you're annoyed by this discussion, I'll just leave it at that.

 

[JarodRussell]

Goldsmith's score is nice. But the cinematography doesn't hold a candle to Star Trek: Generations, which might be the best photographed of the Trek movies. As a movie, it's just okay. It captures the tone of the series better than the three other movies, I think, for better or worse.

It seems no one ever likes the movies that actually perfectly captured the spirit of the TV show. See all the dislike about The Final Frontier.

 

[Mark 2000]

It seems no one ever likes the movies that actually perfectly captured the spirit of the TV show. See all the dislike about The Final Frontier.

Way to Eden was in a similar spirit to Final Frontier and nobody likes that one either. It takes more than spirit to make a good film. I'm all for an exploration based movie - but a good one. There's a million reasons TFF was bad. Seeking out the unknown is not one of them.

 

[RAMA]

"Insurrection" has always been my least favourite film of all eleven Trek movies (yes, worse than TFF or Nemesis) yet for some reason - with the kids asleep and The Wife out for the night - it was this movie I chose to stick on in the background while I did important things like... check this forum.

Anyway - I'm rather enjoying it! Haven't seen it for at least seven or eight years. Just got up to the part where Picard realises the planet has rejuvenating properties. Enjoyed all of it so far, with the exception of the Riker/Troi scenes. I just find Marina Sirtis to be a somewhat limited actress, and it really comes to light in the movies for some reason.

But everything else - the plot, the cinematography (surely the nicest looking Trek film at least!), good use of the characters so far... it's not going to win awards for the most ambitious Trek, but it clearly doesn't deserve the harsh rap I've gjven it to date...
(of course, I haven't got to the "joystick" scene yet...! )

90,000-500,000 ton super tankers use joysticks...

http://www.aukevisser.nl/supertankers/part-2/id579.htm

http://www.worsleyschool.net/science/files/supertanker/page.html

RAMA

 

[Cadet49]

"Insurrection" has always been my least favourite film of all eleven Trek movies (yes, worse than TFF or Nemesis) yet for some reason - with the kids asleep and The Wife out for the night - it was this movie I chose to stick on in the background while I did important things like... check this forum.

Anyway - I'm rather enjoying it! Haven't seen it for at least seven or eight years. Just got up to the part where Picard realises the planet has rejuvenating properties. Enjoyed all of it so far, with the exception of the Riker/Troi scenes. I just find Marina Sirtis to be a somewhat limited actress, and it really comes to light in the movies for some reason.

But everything else - the plot, the cinematography (surely the nicest looking Trek film at least!), good use of the characters so far... it's not going to win awards for the most ambitious Trek, but it clearly doesn't deserve the harsh rap I've gjven it to date...
(of course, I haven't got to the "joystick" scene yet...! )

Of the TNG movies, I always felt that this movie and Generations were the most consistent in the characterization of the characters, in terms of their television personas. Yes, the humour was really poorly executed, but the central theme, of Picard trying to protect the rights of an indigenous people, was much more consistent with the Picard of the T.V. series. In First Contact and Nemesis, he seemed really out of character to me at many points (in FC, calling Worf a coward, screaming at people and smashing display cases ... in Ins, driving around on a planet on a dune buggy ... just not the cerebral, thoughtful Picard of the TV series...)

 

[Cadet49]

"Insurrection" has always been my least favourite film of all eleven Trek movies (yes, worse than TFF or Nemesis) yet for some reason - with the kids asleep and The Wife out for the night - it was this movie I chose to stick on in the background while I did important things like... check this forum.

Anyway - I'm rather enjoying it! Haven't seen it for at least seven or eight years. Just got up to the part where Picard realises the planet has rejuvenating properties. Enjoyed all of it so far, with the exception of the Riker/Troi scenes. I just find Marina Sirtis to be a somewhat limited actress, and it really comes to light in the movies for some reason.

But everything else - the plot, the cinematography (surely the nicest looking Trek film at least!), good use of the characters so far... it's not going to win awards for the most ambitious Trek, but it clearly doesn't deserve the harsh rap I've gjven it to date...
(of course, I haven't got to the "joystick" scene yet...! )

Of the TNG movies, I always felt that this movie and Generations were the most consistent in the characterization of the characters, in terms of their television personas. Yes, the humour was really poorly executed, but the central theme, of Picard trying to protect the rights of an indigenous people, was much more consistent with the Picard of the T.V. series. In First Contact and Nemesis, he seemed really out of character to me at many points (in FC, calling Worf a coward, screaming at people and smashing display cases ... in Ins, driving around on a planet on a dune buggy ... just not the cerebral, thoughtful Picard of the TV series...)

Typo on my post above ... I meant to type "NEM" when referring to the dune buggy scene, not "INS"

 

[Mage]

I'm with the OP on this one. I like Insurrection, it may have some flaws but I still enjoy it every time I watch is. And it still has one of the funniest jokes if you ask me, with great timing and a perfect look on Brent Spiner's face: Data's memory engrames.

 

[JarodRussell]

It seems no one ever likes the movies that actually perfectly captured the spirit of the TV show. See all the dislike about The Final Frontier.

Way to Eden was in a similar spirit to Final Frontier and nobody likes that one either. It takes more than spirit to make a good film. I'm all for an exploration based movie - but a good one. There's a million reasons TFF was bad. Seeking out the unknown is not one of them.

Really? It was just as campy and just as deep as any TOS episode, if you ask me.

 

[jerriecan]

I actually don't mind insurrection too much.

I think the biggest problem with insurrection is this.

It would have made a great episode of TNG, it just wasn't strong enough to stand as a full length movie.

This, exactly this. Even as I watched in the theater I thought Insurrection was far better suited to the small screen.

 

[Mark 2000]

Really? It was just as campy and just as deep as any TOS episode, if you ask me.

There's campy and then there's stupid. Fine line, I know.

 

[JarodRussell]

Really? It was just as campy and just as deep as any TOS episode, if you ask me.

There's campy and then there's stupid. Fine line, I know.

As always at this point in the discussion about this topic, I point towards this beautiful scene from TOS:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avTfiRccYIA[/yt]

Seriously, nothing in TFF makes me cringe as much as this scene.

 

[Psion]

And yet, I think we can agree that it wasn't scenes like that which made Star Trek great. Scenes like that made Lost in Space ... infamous. "Plato's Stepchildren", "The Way to Eden", and "Spock's Brain" aren't an excuse to indulge in more stupidity. They're an example of bad things to avoid.

 

[Mark 2000]

^^^Basically.

 

[Vinkula]

Insurrection is one of my top-favourite Star Trek films

 

[cblmc1296]

I'd have to say INS is my favorite out of the list of Trek films that are my least favorites ... if that makes any sense. ;-)

 

[Caesar753]

I actually don't mind insurrection too much.

I think the biggest problem with insurrection is this.

It would have made a great episode of TNG, it just wasn't strong enough to stand as a full length movie.

Excellent point. I like Insurrection too, but it's hardly my favorite. The story was good, but better suited for an episode.

 

[HaventGotALife]

Sometimes I get tired of defending this movie. In the Star Trek movies there is usually a evil humanoid looking to destroy the Enterprise or Earth. This movie doesn't do that. Outside of the choices made by Jonathan Frakes regarding F. Murray Abraham's character (he's a lot more interesting if subdued) and Will Riker playing with his joystick on the bridge of the Enterprise, this is a solid plot.

They built a culture for the first time in a long time in Trek movies. Actually, it's the first. Having all the time in the world has allowed the Bak'u to be students for decades. This is something that could happen on earth. Rejecting technology as a means of peace is hardly a new idea, but it is done well in this movie because these are likeable people who are not angry all the time, standing against technology. They just want to live their life.

The problem lies in people not listening to what is said on screen, preferring action. The Bak'u are not the only culture in this film. The Son'a are described as well. Makers of Ketrecel White, conquering the Tarlaq, going through regeneration procedures, etc. The Enterprise is acting in every imaginable way except being violent and savage (diplomats, explorers, defenders, etc.), firing phasers first and asking questions later.

Data is in peril. We almost lose him and we have to re-work his positronic brain in order to keep him functioning. Picard uses his brain when he starts to sing to Data to test, through various stimuli, how he would respond. He's trying to get through to him anyway he can. Data has more humanity to explore as well. He finds out what it is like to be a child, something he will never experience.

Picard is torn between what is right and Federation policy. It's a crisis of morals after a movie where he takes joy in killing living creatures. He's not doing this for friendship the way that Kirk did for Spock, he is taking off the pips to do what is right and to stop the Federation from making a mistake. And at that point, he is sacrificing the new medicine that could develop, the changes to our society, to protect these 600 people on the planet.

The argument between Picard and the Admiral is very balanced. It is interesting because we face this every day in foreign policy (regarding oil and our allies) and it is not something we think about every day. Star Trek is making a point. We have forcefully relocated many races and it continues to be done around the world. This is something they tried (and failed) to explore with the Maquis. This is the moral conundrum--help millions by destroying 600 people, or leave the planet alone. Scientific research faces this problem every day. There's a lot of material, from a moral stance, explored in this film. My only wish is that they spent more time allowing Picard to make this decision.

The relationship between the Son'a and Bak'u is interesting. Again, it's how the director treated the material that makes it seem like it's been done before.

We have big developments with characters, developed cultures, an interesting moral dilemma, and it shows Starfleet as more than madman stoppers. This is a Star Trek film where the others have failed. If that seems like something on television, it's because they've never tried it in the movie theatre before.

This isn't the best movie, but I like what it tries to do. People need to leave this one alone and just think about what we liked about Star Trek as we watch it.

 

[Mark 2000]

I think Plinkett got this right. The most infuriating thing about the Baku is that they look like characters in a douche commercial. It would have been far better if they had been some kind or insect people of something. The insulting thing about the whole movie is its very premise that pretty people are good and ugly people are bad.

That and DS9 over saturated the Trek world with Star Fleet people being bad. It's not what I watch the show for. I never enjoyed that.

 

[JarodRussell]

I think Plinkett got this right. The most infuriating thing about the Baku is that they look like characters in a douche commercial. It would have been far better if they had been some kind or insect people of something. The insulting thing about the whole movie is its very premise that pretty people are good and ugly people are bad.

That and DS9 over saturated the Trek world with Star Fleet people being bad. It's not what I watch the show for. I never enjoyed that.

In the original draft, the description reminded me a lot of the Avatar Na'vi.

 

[HaventGotALife]

I think Plinkett got this right. The most infuriating thing about the Baku is that they look like characters in a douche commercial. It would have been far better if they had been some kind or insect people of something. The insulting thing about the whole movie is its very premise that pretty people are good and ugly people are bad.

That and DS9 over saturated the Trek world with Star Fleet people being bad. It's not what I watch the show for. I never enjoyed that.

The point is that they are healthy. That their health has been improved by living on the planet.