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Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Release

Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

The only problem I can see with the movie is that Sherlock Holmes the character will not make it through Downey the persona, and that the emphasis on action fails to distinguish it from any other buddy action movie.

Didn't see the first one, don't know if I'll try the second, since Downey is the kind of actor you either love or hate, since he can't seem to truly immerse himself in a role. Sort of like the recent version of Nicholas Cage.

Seriously? Hunh. I've always found Downey to be an exceptional chameleon as a character actor. Have you seen him in Chaplin? Amazing work. If his recent fame has come from characters that reflect his off-screen persona, that's because the characters are being chosen and written for him with that persona in mind. Yes, there are some broad similarities between Downey's Holmes, Downey's Tony Stark, and Downey's media image, but I think he managed to make Holmes and Stark extremely distinct individuals (and he was definitely drawing on Jeremy Brett for his version of Holmes).

And isn't Sherlock Holmes supposed to be more of a sleuth than action hero? Meh.
A common misconception. Holmes was a Victorian gentleman, so naturally he was expected to be able to handle himself in a fight. In the canonical stories, he was an expert boxer (good enough to have gone pro if he'd chosen) and an expert fencer, he was skilled in a martial art called bartitsu (and used martial arts to defeat Moriarty), and is often shown taking on enemies with a pistol or a riding crop. He was definitely a man of action as well as thought.

Remember, the Holmes stories were not written for some intellectual elite. They were popular fiction in a major magazine of the era (in fact, Conan Doyle found them embarrassingly lowbrow), and audiences of the time expected action and adventure just as much as they do today. Most of the Holmes stories are actually titled "The Adventure of the..." whatever.

The Downey movie (and presumably its successor) did exaggerate the action to fit the modern idiom of the American summer blockbuster, true. But allowing for that, it was a very faithful and respectful adaptation. It drew heavily from the Doyle canon; it just played up aspects of that canon that prior adaptations have often played down. And that makes it fresh and intriguing. The filmmakers have found an innovative way of telling an authentic Holmes adaptation. And that's really what you're supposed to do in a new adaptation -- not just copy what's been done before, which is pointless, but to find a new layer of meaning in the work.

The impression I always had was that Sherlock used powers of deduction and reason to solve mysteries, with the fisticuffs being incidental, so to speak.

Anyway, thanks for the elucidation--I forgot about the Chaplin film, and don't dislike Downey, so I think I'll catch up on the first and depending on reviews, see the second as well.
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

The impression I always had was that Sherlock used powers of deduction and reason to solve mysteries, with the fisticuffs being incidental, so to speak.

True, there was a general division of labor between Holmes as the brain and Watson as the brawn, but Holmes was certainly shown to be more than capable in a fight. If you haven't actually read the canonical 60 stories, I recommend them. Actual experience is always better than impressions.

And the movie did a very good job of establishing that Holmes's fighting prowess was largely due to his gifts for observation and analysis. He instantly assessed his opponents' weaknesses and calculated the whole sequence of moves that would disable them before the first blow even landed. It was an inspired way of adapting Holmes to the American blockbuster action movie idiom while still keeping him true to his nature as a character.
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

Looks good--albeit rather action-heavy. :lol:

Noomi Rapace was great as Lisbeth Salander in the Millennium Trilogy movies. It will be interesting to see how well she can act in English.
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

Noomi is also cast in Ridley Scott's "Prometheus" so we'll get a chance to see her next year as well in an English movie. Someone pointed out that the first trailer to "Sherlock Holmes" was action oriented as well which caused some heavy debate here. As Christopher has pointed out in this thread that is well within the characteristics of the character and something that gets overlooked or ignored by most fans because they're only familiar with one facet of the character.
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

^And, as was pointed out earlier, movie trailers always play up the action. They're not meant to be statistically accurate representations of the actual films' ratio of action to other content. They're meant to emphasize the action disproportionately in order to catch the viewers' interest. If there were a movie that contained 98 minutes of dialogue and scenery and 3 minutes of action, you can bet that its trailer would be drawn mostly from those 3 minutes.

Indeed, it seemed to me that a lot of the action content in this trailer was drawn from a limited number of set pieces, notably the train sequence and the forest sequence.
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

I'm extremely excited for this! I loved the first SH, and it was actually the movie that got me interested in Downey Jr movies. The trailer for this one looks to be as fun as the first movie!
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

The writers of the first movie were retained for the sequel (they're the ones who pitched the spec script in the form of a comic book). I think Guy Ritchie has done revisions. Hans Zimmer of course is back composing the score. I loved his score for the first one.
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

The impression I always had was that Sherlock used powers of deduction and reason to solve mysteries, with the fisticuffs being incidental, so to speak.

True, there was a general division of labor between Holmes as the brain and Watson as the brawn, but Holmes was certainly shown to be more than capable in a fight. If you haven't actually read the canonical 60 stories, I recommend them. Actual experience is always better than impressions.

And the movie did a very good job of establishing that Holmes's fighting prowess was largely due to his gifts for observation and analysis. He instantly assessed his opponents' weaknesses and calculated the whole sequence of moves that would disable them before the first blow even landed. It was an inspired way of adapting Holmes to the American blockbuster action movie idiom while still keeping him true to his nature as a character.

Also to be remembered is that these films are supposed to be showing a younger Holmes and Watson. A younger Holmes, specifically, who had not yet mastered controlling his own brashness. Holmes of the Canon had learned to forgo the throw down fisticuffs in favor of a more, shale we say elegant solution.

I always figured that this was a result of his time spent in asia where he learned his martial arts training. He learned a more logical way of combat.

So younger Sherlock was a master boxer, but older Sherlock saw the illogical aspect of such a brutal fighting art over the more fluid and skilled martial art.
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

^ Yes Guy Ritchie has stated that he was heavily influenced by "Batman Begins" when he was hired to direct his and his revisions of the script reflect that nature. This movie does have more locales because they shot a couple of days in France I believe.
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

Also to be remembered is that these films are supposed to be showing a younger Holmes and Watson. A younger Holmes, specifically, who had not yet mastered controlling his own brashness. Holmes of the Canon had learned to forgo the throw down fisticuffs in favor of a more, shale we say elegant solution.

I don't think that's true. After all, A Study in Scarlet showed the first meeting of Holmes and Watson, while they were in their late twenties. The canon itself shows plenty of the young Holmes. And the feel I definitely got from the movie was that Holmes and Watson had been friends and colleagues for years, and that their longstanding relationship was changing due to Watson's engagement to Mary Morstan (and there definitely seemed to be some slash-subtext jealousy on Holmes's part there).

Going by this chronology, Holmes and Watson met in 1881, and Watson proposed to Mary in 1887 and wed her in 1888. The first movie is early in Watson's engagement and the second, clearly, overlaps his wedding and honeymoon. So Holmes and Watson would've been together for 6-7 years by this point, and a lot of their canonical adventures would've already happened. The chronology also puts the chronologically earliest reference to Moriarty (in The Valley of Fear) in early '88, and the final confrontation with Moriarty (in "The Final Problem") in 1891. So having Holmes's first encounter with Moriarty take place in this film is pretty compatible with the canon, though not entirely, I'm sure (for one thing, Downey's more than a decade older than Holmes would've been at the time of Watson and Mary's wedding).
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

very cool I just saw the trailer looking for to it. how many of these movies do you think there will be? and did any one see the adventures of young sherlock holmes?
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

I wouldn't be surprised if they were aiming for a trilogy, which is about as many movies as you could expect Robert Downey, Jr. and Jude Law to stick around for.

Of course, if this one is a total bomb I would expect that to be it. But the first one was a huge hit, even in the face of middling reviews, so I wouldn't expect this one to fail.
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

Yeah, I don't expect this one to fail, either. If anything, I think it'll expand on its predecessor's success, given how well-received the first movie was.

I just hope they didn't manufacture some random threat to America in an unnecessary attempt to make the movie more relevant to American audiences, like the first movie did.
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

I wouldn't be surprised if they were aiming for a trilogy, which is about as many movies as you could expect Robert Downey, Jr. and Jude Law to stick around for....

Ya realize that this is only Robert Downey, Jr's second sequel, right? And that Iron Man 2 was his first?

This is also Jude Law's first sequel.

So, there's really no way to say, "Oh, yeah, they'll do a full trilogy!" unless the contracts have already been signed, which I kind of doubt...
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

I wouldn't be surprised if they were aiming for a trilogy, which is about as many movies as you could expect Robert Downey, Jr. and Jude Law to stick around for....

Ya realize that this is only Robert Downey, Jr's second sequel, right? And that Iron Man 2 was his first?

This is also Jude Law's first sequel.

So, there's really no way to say, "Oh, yeah, they'll do a full trilogy!" unless the contracts have already been signed, which I kind of doubt...
I'd put good money that it was part of the contract for both RDJ and Law for 3 films. It's just standard practice now. Routh was signed for Superman sequels. Bale for Terminator sequels but the studios let the options expire.

RDJ is already shooting The Avengers, his 3rd turn at Tony/IM and is committed to IM3 already. That's 4 appearances as Iron Man. Why not 4 turns at Holmes I say?
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

I haven't heard anything about a trilogy being already in tact. Remember that Guy Ritchie was originally contracted to go straight to his "Sgt. Rock" adaption right after "Sherlock Holmes" but the surprise success of the first film fast tracked a sequel. I would be pleasantly be surprised. I think box office has a big factor and Ritchie's desire to keep making these films is another huge factor honestly.

I did read an article that Ritchie still is interested in doing "Sgt. Rock" after this movie so who knows about a third.
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

^^^
Directors do move around. I was addessing the situation of the actors.
Favreau isn't doing Iron Man 3, Burton didn't do Batman Forever and Singer didn't do X-Men 3 among the notable franchise changes at the third film.

Actors however are commonly signed now.
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

I wouldn't be surprised if they were aiming for a trilogy, which is about as many movies as you could expect Robert Downey, Jr. and Jude Law to stick around for....

Ya realize that this is only Robert Downey, Jr's second sequel, right? And that Iron Man 2 was his first?

This is also Jude Law's first sequel.

So, there's really no way to say, "Oh, yeah, they'll do a full trilogy!" unless the contracts have already been signed, which I kind of doubt...
I'd put good money that it was part of the contract for both RDJ and Law for 3 films. It's just standard practice now. Routh was signed for Superman sequels. Bale for Terminator sequels but the studios let the options expire.

RDJ is already shooting The Avengers, his 3rd turn at Tony/IM and is committed to IM3 already. That's 4 appearances as Iron Man. Why not 4 turns at Holmes I say?

Five, if ya count his cameo in The Incredible Hulk.

:p
 
Re: Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Discussion and News Until Relea

I enjoyed the first movie, but the trailer for this one underwhelmed me. Not even a glimpse of Stephen Fry as Mycroft (the biggest reason to get excited about this movie, IMO) and Jared Harris doesn't seem to be a terribly interesting Moriarty from what we see here. The "in my hand/in my face" bit wasn't funny enough to warrant a callback. And I absolutely HATE the idea of Holmes dressing in drag. Cheap gag.
 
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