Why Batman is Secretly Terrible for Gotham.

[Professor Zoom]

One of the reasons people turn to crime is because of education, food, etc. In other words, basic needs. If those basic needs are met--say, through worker training programs, better jobs, etc, then they wouldn't be turning to crime.

So, his money going into social programs would help curb crime. Clearly his years as Batman hasn't done it.

Bruce Wayne does donate money to those kind of foundations. Owns one in fact. What do you think the Wayne Foundation is?

Consider how much MORE he could donate if he wasn't spending money on Bat Tanks, Batarangs--don't believe the name, that shit doesn't come back.

If he spent half as much intellect and time on his social programs as he does on beating up silly criminals, Gotham wouldn't be the mess it is today.

Just imagine, Bruce is a smart guy, but he spends it all going after individuals. What if he applied it to the system? Better training for officers? Education grants for the poor? Opening a charter school? Maybe better pay in his sweat shop factories...

 

[Sindatur]

One of the reasons people turn to crime is because of education, food, etc. In other words, basic needs. If those basic needs are met--say, through worker training programs, better jobs, etc, then they wouldn't be turning to crime.

So, his money going into social programs would help curb crime. Clearly his years as Batman hasn't done it.

Bruce Wayne does donate money to those kind of foundations. Owns one in fact. What do you think the Wayne Foundation is?

Consider how much MORE he could donate if he wasn't spending money on Bat Tanks, Batarangs--don't believe the name, that shit doesn't come back.

If he spent half as much intellect and time on his social programs as he does on beating up silly criminals, Gotham wouldn't be the mess it is today.

Just imagine, Bruce is a smart guy, but he spends it all going after individuals. What if he applied it to the system? Better training for officers? Education grants for the poor? Opening a charter school? Maybe better pay in his sweat shop factories...

Does Bruce spend money on Bat Tanks and so on? In the Nolanverse, it seems he steals Wayne Enterprises R&D equipment.

Certainly all those programs you mention would reduce the criminal element, but, it's not going to do anything about your Penguins, Jokers, Catwomans, etc, they're criminals because it's who they are, not because they didn't get enough to eat or enough education as a child. And it's not going to get rid of 100% of the rest of the crime either. White collar crime has nothing to do with lack of education or being hungry as a child, and people who have plenty to sustain a good life are still gonna deal drugs, etc.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Bruce Wayne does donate money to those kind of foundations. Owns one in fact. What do you think the Wayne Foundation is?

Consider how much MORE he could donate if he wasn't spending money on Bat Tanks, Batarangs--don't believe the name, that shit doesn't come back.

If he spent half as much intellect and time on his social programs as he does on beating up silly criminals, Gotham wouldn't be the mess it is today.

Just imagine, Bruce is a smart guy, but he spends it all going after individuals. What if he applied it to the system? Better training for officers? Education grants for the poor? Opening a charter school? Maybe better pay in his sweat shop factories...

Does Bruce spend money on Bat Tanks and so on? In the Nolanverse, it seems he steals Wayne Enterprises R&D equipment.

Somebody spent money on those tanks. By stealing the equipment, he's embezzling money from Wayne Enterprises. Think of all of those grandparents who own stock in Wayne Enterprises. They're stock holders, they have rights.

Not only is Batman a vigilante, he's also a thief then, a no good Bernie Madoff.

Certainly all those programs you mention would reduce the criminal element, but, it's not going to do anything about your Penguins, Jokers, Catwomans, etc, they're criminals because it's who they are, not because they didn't get enough to eat or enough education as a child.

Who they are? So, it's not the environment they grow up in? They were ALWAYS going to be criminals? Is it genetic? How do you KNOW they were always going to become criminals?

If there were more mental health services available, young Copperpot might not have grown up to have such issues.

And with Catwoman, well, she might not have had to turn to prostitution if she could have had help.

And the Joker... well... if there were greater EPA standards, or if say, some rich Billionaire was an advocate for the environment...

And it's not going to get rid of 100% of the rest of the crime either. White collar crime has nothing to do with lack of education or being hungry as a child, and people who have plenty to sustain a good life are still gonna deal drugs, etc.

Sure, white collar crime doesn't have anything to do with education or poverty. But, it certainly doesn't require tanks, etc.

And when was the last time he went after a white collar criminal? He probably doesn't because those are his investors, the ones that put money into Wayne Enterprises, to keep his war on Crime going...

 

[Kegg]

And when was the last time he went after a white collar criminal? He probably doesn't because those are his investors, the ones that put money into Wayne Enterprises, to keep his war on Crime going...

...

Goddamnit.

David Simon was right, it's a war on the underclass.

Well I don't think he meant Batman but I choose to believe he meant Batman.

 

[Silvercrest]

Certainly all those programs you mention would reduce the criminal element, but, it's not going to do anything about your Penguins, Jokers, Catwomans, etc, they're criminals because it's who they are, not because they didn't get enough to eat or enough education as a child.

Who they are? So, it's not the environment they grow up in? They were ALWAYS going to be criminals? Is it genetic? How do you KNOW they were always going to become criminals?

Arguably so! Some people just want to watch the world burn.


I heard that somewhere.

 

[Kegg]

^
From an English serviceman who attributed this supposedly purposeless nihilism to the natives he fought in the Empire, because it's always easier to assume your enemy is some kind of atavistic savage.

 

[Trekker4747]

You know, I posted this very thing just a day prior and it got like two responses, but now there's a discussion?!

Sigh.

 

[Professor Zoom]

^
From an English serviceman who attributed this supposedly purposeless nihilism to the natives he fought in the Empire, because it's always easier to assume your enemy is some kind of atavistic savage.

See... and The Batman... just like that English serviceman. Better to look at your enemies as freaks and madmen than people in need.

You know, I posted this very thing just a day prior and it got like two responses, but now there's a discussion?!

Sigh.

Sorry.

 

[RandyS]

That video confuses me. Are they poking fun at Batman, or at fandom??

 

[Broccoli]

That video confuses me. Are they poking fun at Batman, or at fandom??

Both.

I think whoever made that video watched Clerks a little too much.

 

[Showdown]

One thing that never made any sense to me at all in shared comic universes is that there are a billion superheroes. Shouldn't there be no crime? Ever?

There are also a billion super villians. Sure the heroes would defeat them, but they make it hard to eliminate all crime.

Batman is good for Gotham. The anti-Bat speaker is wrong.
For starters, it is not murder, its justifiable homicide. If a cop kills someone who is trying to run him over or shoot him or some else, it is not a crime.

A cop has been given that authority by the state. And he has to fill out paper work. And it has to be reviewed.

Batman doesn't have to do that. Is he above the law?

No, he is not. You don't have to be a cop to commit justifiable homicide. I just use that as an example. Here is another one - Someone tried to kill you and someone else stopped him with lethal force.

Just putting money into social programs isn't going to stop all crime or put criminals away. They have to get rid of the bad elements.

One of the reasons people turn to crime is because of education, food, etc. In other words, basic needs. If those basic needs are met--say, through worker training programs, better jobs, etc, then they wouldn't be turning to crime.

So, his money going into social programs would help curb crime. Clearly his years as Batman hasn't done it.

Lex, Two Face, Scarecrow, Riddler etc. are not poor. They are not lacking of any of those basic needs and yet, they commit crime. That is why I said social programs are not going to stop ALL crime.

In some stories/episodes, Bruce Wayne mentions some of his charities. It is just not very interesting to read.

Or because he's just trying to look good to who ever he's talking to.

Or maybe those charities are just fronts for his mad war on crime.

Or maybe they are real charities that he used to help fight crime through social economic means, which he used in conjunction with his Batman persona.

But, if he had spent his money on social programs, Gotham wouldn't be one train crash away from class warfare--which was the point that Ras was trying to do, start a war.

Remember, Ras had been manipulating the society of Gotham? If Bruce had done the same thing, obviously, in the opposite direction, then, Ras would have moved to a different city.

Thus, the train wouldn't have been in any danger. Or the city.

Remember that Thomas Wayne tried that? League of Shadows did not move to another city and kept trying to destroy Gotham.

Batman is not a tyrant. He did not make rules or force ordinary citizens to do anything.

That's right. He did not make the rules. And apparently feels the need to NOT FOLLOW THEM. He's a criminal as well.
As far as being a tyrant, it's his way or no way... That sounds like a tyrant.

Batman's not a ruler. He does not have a position of authority. He doesn't sound like a tyrant to me.

Many criminals believe it is their way or no way as well, do you consider them to be tyrants as well?

If he spent half as much intellect and time on his social programs as he does on beating up silly criminals, Gotham wouldn't be the mess it is today.

That is possible, but its also possible that Gotham would be in a bigger mess.

No, he's just above doing paperwork. No wonder he's a hero to so many of us!

I hate paperwork too. Go Batman!

You know, I posted this very thing just a day prior and it got like two responses, but now there's a discussion?!
Sigh.

Sorry man, I guess it is just a timing thing. I did not see your post.

 

[Set Harth]

One of the reasons people turn to crime is because of education, food, etc. In other words, basic needs. If those basic needs are met--say, through worker training programs, better jobs, etc, then they wouldn't be turning to crime.

Wall Street says otherwise.

 

[JarodRussell]

At least in Batman Begins and TDK, Batman is mostly fighting high level organized crime, not the regular bank robber. He is fighting those who bribed the entire police and prosecution. He needs to be above the law because the criminals are above the law, too.

 

[Sci]

Somebody spent money on those tanks. By stealing the equipment, he's embezzling money from Wayne Enterprises. Think of all of those grandparents who own stock in Wayne Enterprises. They're stock holders, they have rights.

Depends on which continuity you're talking about. Yeah, he's clearly embezzling money from Wayne Enterprises in the Nolanverse, because in that continuity, Wayne Enterprises is a public corporation. In the comics, however, it's a single proprietorship, owned by Bruce Wayne and operated by Lucius Fox. It's not theft if he already owns the company.

Certainly all those programs you mention would reduce the criminal element, but, it's not going to do anything about your Penguins, Jokers, Catwomans, etc, they're criminals because it's who they are, not because they didn't get enough to eat or enough education as a child.

Who they are? So, it's not the environment they grow up in? They were ALWAYS going to be criminals?

There will always be criminals, yes, because there will always be some people who are not desperate, and are not genetically deficient, but who are just amoral SOBs. It's inevitable -- there are just too many people in existence for a few not to just be evil assholes.

However, the majority of Batman's rogues gallery are in fact certifiably mentally ill.

If there were more mental health services available, young Copperpot might not have grown up to have such issues.

Oswald Cobblepot (the Penguin) was actually born into a wealthy family, IIRC. And he's one of the few who aren't mentally ill. He's just a right bastard, that one.

And the Joker... well... if there were greater EPA standards, or if say, some rich Billionaire was an advocate for the environment...

Who's to say that Wayne didn't advocate for the environment, and isn't dedicating numerous resources to charities and social reform organizations? What makes you think he's not taking a two-pronged approach?

And bear in mind that Gotham, especially early in the days of Batman, is so fundamentally corrupt that even if one billionaire is advocating for stronger EPA regulations, that doesn't mean that other companies won't be fucking around.

And when was the last time he went after a white collar criminal?

Does going after Lex Luthor, CEO of LexCorp and President of the United States, count?

 

[Broccoli]

Didn't Bruce buy all the shares of Wayne Enterprises at the end of Batman Begins thereby gaining control of the company?

 

[Sci]

Didn't Bruce buy all the shares of Wayne Enterprises at the end of Batman Begins thereby gaining control of the company?

Well, he became the majority shareholder with a controlling interest. But there are presumably still other shareholders.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Trouble, oh we got trouble,
Right here in Gotham City!
With a capital "T"
That rhymes with "B"
And that stands for Batman
That stands for Batman.
We've surely got trouble!
Right here in Gotham City,

 

[Trekker4747]

My understanding is Bruce Wayne bought a controlling stake in Wayne Enterprises and turned it back into a privately owned company, his.

 

[archeryguy1701]

Well, I can tell you why Batman is not-so-secretly bad for Gotham: property damage. How many cars, buildings, and other private and public properties did Nolan's Batman destroy in those two movies? There are some natural disasters that have nothing on him!!

 

[StarTrek1701]

Well, I can tell you why Batman is not-so-secretly bad for Gotham: property damage. How many cars, buildings, and other private and public properties did Nolan's Batman destroy in those two movies? There are some natural disasters that have nothing on him!!

Word. That Batman hasn't been sued by the city or the residents of the city, or that the mob bosses didn't come together to hire the best strike force to take Batman out (in Nolanverse) is something to raise eyebrows at too.