Women and wives in Cardassian culture

[Anwar]

I don't think he ever really cared for them--they were status symbols, and now that he was top dog, he no longer needed those status symbols as part of a climb to the top. He was there.

Not to mention Ziyal satisfied his need for unconditional adoration. She never questioned him until her last days.

Kind of sad he'd be like that, but then again folks do forget how heartless Dukat can really be once you get by that affable mask.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

He was dead inside, and it was a real shame. He could have been different, but he did not make the choices that would have allowed him to be so. Not in the canon universe, anyway.

 

[Ainhoa]

Thats a real shame. I wonder if it was the same for Damar? Maybe when he became head of the Cardassian union his wife didn`t fit his status anymore. But somehow I don`t think he was that heartless. And I don`t like going down the lines of it was an arranged marriage so he didn`t love her hence all the shag pieces etc. He was in shock when he lost her and their child.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I kind of doubt Damar was heartless. I tend to see him as more of a reckless, impulsive person.

 

[Ainhoa]

I kind of doubt Damar was heartless. I tend to see him as more of a reckless, impulsive person.

Totally true. For me his mouth gives him away. He strikes me also as a bit petulant. Damar is such an interesting person.

 

[Nightdiamond]

I get the impression, that in the military at least, the wives expect infidelity and go along with it, as long as it doesn't get out in the open.

In regards to Dukat, he had a Cardassian wife and seven children with her. We never hear or see any of them. I wonder what the dynamics of their relationship was.

Knowing him, I'd suspect she's a status symbol for him, as are his children with her--not truly loved as he claimed.

I bet she was the typical trophy wife-beautiful, from an influential family- she had the clout to leave him and humiliate him.


I think "regular" Cardassian women may be culturally conditioned to go along with behavior like this though no matter how weird it gets-like Mila possibly.

It was never confirmed but strongly implied and rumored, that Mila was Garak's mother.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I wouldn't say that would be a universal expectation at all. I can't imagine Tekeny Ghemor to have been the sort of man who would've cheated on his wife. He loved his family too much for that.

 

[Ainhoa]

I get the impression, that in the military at least, the wives expect infidelity and go along with it, as long as it doesn't get out in the open.
True, they are not stupid women. So maybe, just as long as it doesn`t humiliate them in public they accept it. Condoning it would be another matter.

In regards to Dukat, he had a Cardassian wife and seven children with her. We never hear or see any of them. I wonder what the dynamics of their relationship was.

Knowing him, I'd suspect she's a status symbol for him, as are his children with her--not truly loved as he claimed.

I bet she was the typical trophy wife-beautiful, from an influential family- she had the clout to leave him and humiliate him.
I agree with you. They have their limits I suppose. Public humiliation is a no go area.


I think "regular" Cardassian women may be culturally conditioned to go along with behavior like this though no matter how weird it gets-like Mila possibly.

It was never confirmed but strongly implied and rumored, that Mila was Garak's mother.

Wasn`t she?

 

[Ainhoa]

Why am I not using quote and mini quote properly?

 

[Mike Have-Not]

I love Cardassians and Cardassian culture SO much!

Just look at how much Cardassian enthusiasts have to say. So in depth and thoughtful.

The creators (show-makers, fans, lit. writers all included) have done such an excellent job in putting together a fictional culture.

Just felt like gushing for a moment.

As you were :-)

 

[Nightdiamond]

Nerys Ghemor

I wouldn't say that would be a universal expectation at all. I can't imagine Tekeny Ghemor to have been the sort of man who would've cheated on his wife. He loved his family too much for that.

With someone like Tekeny Ghemor, I'd say he truly cares about his family- to point of protecting Kira even when he found out she wasn't his daughter.

But the vibe I get when watching is that it is widespread in the upper levels of the military.

The comfort women scene in W.D.T.D.N spreads this ugly reputation.

I get two vibes from Cardassians; one is that they value family and marriage highly and are highly monogamous. (Several generations in one house, right?)

The other is that they tolerate infidelity as long as it doesn't tarnish the family image. (Which proves they're all individuals to begin with).


From what I've seen, it was never stated directly or even indirectly that Mila was Garak's mother.

But take a longer look at some of the scenes with Mila and Garak, or the dialog, you can see how it implied.

In Trek lore, it's been discussed, I think.

 

[Iliana Malek]

There's a difference with the Obsidian Order, too, I think. The members of the Order seemed to be actively discouraged from seeking personal relationships. Tain never acknowledges Garak as his son until the very end, so you can infer that it was something he didn't want getting out into public. His (potential) relationship with Mila was likewise kept under wraps. In the novel A Stitch in Time, it also seems that Garak pursuing a relationship with Palandine led to his being exiled on Terak Nor during the Occupation because it went against the mandates of the Order. It makes sense, though, that an organization like the Order would want to keep their operatives clear of anything that might be used against them in an interrogation situation, e.g., "We have your wife and kids..."

Tekeny Ghemor definitely strikes me as poster image for the 'ideal Cardassian', but I agree that he seems to be the exception rather than the rule, at least when it comes to the upper echelons of the military.

The other is that they tolerate infidelity as long as it doesn't tarnish the family image.

THIS. Dukat actually used an illegitimate child against one of his political rivals early on in the show, which destroyed his rival's career. And again, when he was revealed to have his own illegitimate child, his reputation on Cardassia was ruined. So yeah, as long as it's kept under wraps, it's fine, but just don't let it get out.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I think what you're seeing with the culture of cheating is a symptom of corruption in the halls of power--that so many of them cheat. Their power structure is corrupted to the core; they think they're invulnerable. They apply one standard to the citizenry, and another to themselves--because they can.

 

[Iliana Malek]

Very true. Why play by the rules if there's no one to answer to?

 

[Nightdiamond]

That would make sense- you could be blackmailed if you have any scandals in the closet.

So Tain had a sexual relation with Mila, his housekeeper, and had Garak. Then had her poise as just the housekeeper as she "watched" Garak.

And Mila seemed to go along with it just fine. Look at all the episodes with them, and you can see the suggestion that there is something more to it than Mila just being the housekeeper.

This is what makes Cardassian society so interesting yet creepy.


I think the wives of these officers suspect cheating, but don't want to know-so they just delude themselves .

Or have the attitude, "well he has to relive his stress somewhere"..

 

[Iliana Malek]

It reminds me allot of Victorian attitudes. Men were supposed to be loyal, faithful husbands, but when there was infidelity, the women (mostly) silently accept the affair and worked to keep the family together and the household running. Divorce was a scandal above and beyond most others, which would tarnish the reputation of the woman more than of the man. Perhaps divorce in Cardassian society has been made purposefully difficult in order to keep a family together, so that only a large scandal, like an illegitimate child, would expedite the proceedings.

 

[Ainhoa]

That`s not that uncommon in our society. Some women were fine with their husbands having mistresses. It means that they wouldn`t pressure them for sex and then that meant less pregnancies. Of course now that kind of arrangement is highly uncommon. Personally I would go berserk.
It depends on what kind of woman you are. Sometimes it is easier to delude yourself if you know divorce is frowned upon. It`s sad but it`s reality. I suppose one would get a small comfort out of knowing that you are his wife and ultimately you are the one he is coming home to.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

It reminds me allot of Victorian attitudes. Men were supposed to be loyal, faithful husbands, but when there was infidelity, the women (mostly) silently accept the affair and worked to keep the family together and the household running. Divorce was a scandal above and beyond most others, which would tarnish the reputation of the woman more than of the man. Perhaps divorce in Cardassian society has been made purposefully difficult in order to keep a family together, so that only a large scandal, like an illegitimate child, would expedite the proceedings.

I always suspected divorce was harder on Cardassia than it would be in most countries on Earth.

However, I do think it's possible that it would ruin the reputations of both the woman and the man, depending on what would happen, rather than only reflecting on the woman. After all, it was Mrs. Dukat who threw Gul Dukat out, not the other way around.

 

[Ainhoa]

I think what you're seeing with the culture of cheating is a symptom of corruption in the halls of power--that so many of them cheat. Their power structure is corrupted to the core; they think they're invulnerable. They apply one standard to the citizenry, and another to themselves--because they can.

I think that when Damar got a taste for power starting from the time he was under Dukats mentorship/misguidance he felt that he could imitate the top dogs. I got the feeling it never suited him well. The more he climbed to the top the more the kanar bottle came out. He knew what he was doing with the dominion was wrong. Dukat or another top dog wouldn`t have cared that much.
He knew that it was corrupted. He felt extreme guilt for participating. It went against what it meant for him to be a Cardassian.

 

[Ainhoa]

Powerful men mean mistresses. They are also a status symbol along with the wife. It shows that the man can afford to keep two women. One party for wives, the other for the girlfriend.