Plot hole, why not shoot the Borg with shotguns?

[Guy Gardener]

Shielding form kinetic attacks requires immobilizing kinetic assaults on their person but consider that these Borg are on starship's moving speeds that would transform them into "jam" if they were not protected/enveloped by the artificial gravity field, inertial dampening field and structural integrity field...

Maybe if they wanted to stand still, they could be entirely resistant to physical trauma, but an attempt at motion against these conflicting forces would be conflictive to say the least if each Borg was generating their own kinetic field whose intensity and density would again be reliant on how many Borg were standing beside one another or working with surfaces outside themselves.

Borg on a planet however should be fine? As fine as Worf in his wild west gunfight durning a fist full of Datas.

 

[Cakemixo]

Shotguns would have to hit something vital for the borg. Shots to the eye and into the brain may work. I'm not sure if there are any other critial areas are exposed on most borg. Maybe the neck? But I don't think it would work long before they employ shields.

Would a Vulcan nerve pinch work (abiet momentarily) on a borg?

What about magnetic fields?

 

[Guy Gardener]

The point is that they don't employ shields against kinetic attacks.

Blunt or edged weapons, hand to hand nor holographic Tommy guns.

Knights on horseback would have a better chance against the Borg than federation Commandoes.

It's possible that they don't completely respawn their defensive measures every time they encounter a new species so as to not to over egg the pudding because maintaining a billion defence measures they'd ever used to defend against every race they'd ever met is just stupid if the next species they come up against is pre-industrial.

 

[Cakemixo]

I can think of one tactic that would defeat the borg every time. Hide a blackhole and dupe them into getting too close. You can't use the blackhole more than once after they learn the location, but you can plant the trap again in another location.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Romulan warbBirds are all mostly powered by microsingularities.

Never really thought about it but that would be totally in character with he Roman policy of poisoning wells if they can't frakk their opponents in a fair fight.

If a Warbird was accidentally destroyed "just so" or a special sort of nasty self destruct sequence was set "just so" then any given Romulan Ship of the line can transform into a black hole or some equally hazardous to navigation space oddity that they could sacrifice one ship to take out entire fleets or a star system.

 

[DonIago]

Though if the Borg were to assimilate even one Romulan with knowledge of this tactic they might drop a black hole on Earth.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Well, given the massive and obvious plot hole in First Contact as to why they waited to get to Earth in the 24th C. before deploying their time tunnel if assimilating Earth in the past was their real goal, I seriously doubt they'd deploy a singularity there. I also don't think the singularity used in a Romulan Warbird is large enough to pose a significant threat to a planetary system. It's likely a micro-black hole.

 

[od0_ital]

If the Borg went back in time from their own part of the galaxy, they'd be goin' back in time to see older, obsolete Borg, and thus, alterin' their own future as a Collective.

Ya wanna travel back in time, ya better be where ya want to be when ya do...just like in Back to the Future!!!

 

[Gary7]

Nano probes are astoundingly capable devices. Given how this is sci-fi, let's just assume for the moment that the Borg wipe out primitive enemies from a distance, so they don't even need to worry about kinetic attacks on their person. So, their armor is sufficient for most situations encountered (they are conservative, and don't invest in every possible protection at first). And this mostly works... until you have an advanced species known for energy weapons switch to kinetics.

All the Borg have to do is trigger the adaptive plating routine to their nano probes, which in a few minutes would create an impenetrable barrier on their existing armor, much better than Kevlar (assuming the nano probes can alter molecular structures at will). Of course, this doesn't do anything to protect the exposed skin areas, so they are still susceptible to physical attack... not to mention those tubes and other sensitive gizmos capable of being yanked out by a free hand (it doesn't make much sense, kind of like those vulnerable feeding tubes out in the open on the Jem'Hadar). And then of course, the self destruction undergone when a device is pulled, introduced in the first few TNG encounters, but seemingly abandoned in later movies and VOY.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If the Borg went back in time from their own part of the galaxy, they'd be goin' back in time to see older, obsolete Borg, and thus, alterin' their own future as a Collective.

Ya wanna travel back in time, ya better be where ya want to be when ya do...just like in Back to the Future!!!

Which is why they used the interplexing beacon to send upgrades patchs and updates to all the 21st century Borg?

The Queen went to Earth get Picard.

First contact was a love story.

Why does everyone think that the Borg think that the Borg think that they are Evil? They're not soldiers. The Borg are more like missionaries or the peace corps who build wells and schools in Africa's more down trodden areas who just like the Nazis when their tanks rolled into Paris expected to welcomed as heroes and liberators. If the Borg thought they were at war with the Universe they would probably be armed very well, but what fiddling little empires like the Federation are actually fighting tooth and nail is more like a the Borg medical Corps or a Borg M*A*S*H* unit. How difficult do you think that Rommel would find it to match with against Captain Henry Blake? In the Borgs (hive)mind, they expect that every species they encounter should conclude that assimilation is a delight and they should get on their knees, present their necks and willingly comply to the process, and if that's their "invasion plan" every time, why on Io would they need specialized Soldier Drones ever? And why would they destroy planets who desperately needed their help? They don't want to destroy the Federation and humanity, they want to save them and welcome open armed into a peaceful galactic community.

Yes, they're batshit crazy, but it's who they are.

 

[AthanisTree]

Perhaps the Borg should offer light refreshments and anaesthetic during the Assimilation Process?

I for one would welcome a good cup of Tea, some nice chocolate-gingers and a heavy sedative whilst they're slicing into my eye and replacing it with a blinky-LED.

Or chopping off my right arm to be replaced with a thing that goes "Whirr."

Or removing my insides with a large, rusty spoon.

It's only polite.

I begin to see the merits of a Shotgun after all. A real "F*ck you!" feeling if you blow a Drone's face off. Some recompense when the next drone gives you foreplay in the form of injection tubules.

Tingly!

 

[od0_ital]

If the Borg went back in time from their own part of the galaxy, they'd be goin' back in time to see older, obsolete Borg, and thus, alterin' their own future as a Collective.

Ya wanna travel back in time, ya better be where ya want to be when ya do...just like in Back to the Future!!!

Which is why they used the interplexing beacon to send upgrades patchs and updates to all the 21st century Borg?

The Borg didn't expect to loose the cube, but they did.

Which is why they used the sphere.

The Borg didn't expect to loose the sphere, but they did.

Which is why they beamed aboard the big E.

The Borg didn't expect to loose drones left & right, but they did.

Which is why the Queen decided send a signal to the Collective. If Picard had gone through with the destruction of the ship, all the Borg's technology would be lost to the obsolete Borg, but the damage would be done - the Borg would know where to find Earth, humanity would get assimilated, and the alternate reality viewed by the bridge crew would come to pass.

None of that would have really worked if the Queen had traveled back from the Delta Quadrant.

Another thing to think about regardin' the Borg comin' to Earth before travelin' back in time...

...VOY showed that the Borg used transwarp hubs to get across uber distances. It may be realistic to assume that they didn't have the hubs. Travel back from the DQ, and then ya are stuck in the DQ for awhile.

 

[Guy Gardener]

And all for the loss of a nail the kingdom was lost?

One drone (if it was lucky and careful) could have taken the earth at that point in history.

I don't think that the Cube could have travelled through time, in the same way that the Sphere did, so the Sphere was probably the primary vehicle the Borg were interested in using the whole time to time travel, kind of like how Thunderbird 2 would mule Thunderbird 4 around to where they mission specifically needed a submarine.

Considering they would be losing trillions of drones, hundreds of planets and thousands of Cubes back home, what really did the further sacrifice of the Cube that took the Queen to earth really amount too?

And if all the Queen wanted was Picard to stand beside her side at the beginning of a new Borg empire in these ancient days, she would have been willing to sacrifice that cube, that sphere and any number of her drones up to and including her last in so as long as she thought that she would achieve her mission objectives.

Could you imagine playing chess without sacrificing any pieces, many pieces to gain some tactical advantage? It's rare to win a game of chess without losing any pieces, whether they are unintentional losses or not.

Cubes create conduits. Conduits don't vanish. Using a preexisting conduit is faster. Using conduits while you are making those very same conduits is slower, but not that much slower compared to regular warp speed. A hub is just a point in space that the Borg chose to make a lot of conduits. Just like humans make larger train stations where a bunch of rail way tracks converge.

You'd have to wonder if the Borg would supplicate themselves to a superior species like Future Borg, not that the 24th century borg thought to follow the 29th Century Drone "One" rather than the Queen after getting a good look at him. IN First Contact was the Queen thinking to take over the historic Borg, submit to assimilation harmoniously letting water find it's own level, or was she planning on shepherding them from a distance like a wise aunty?

Of course, the real question is had the war with 8472 started by 2370 when this movie took place, by when Borgspace was already lost. Because if it had, and the Borg hadn't yet won a single engagement with this species, and began to realise that they would never win a single fight against these buggers, then retreat through time to before they opened up their windows into fluidic space only seemed sensible, and choosing Earth to make her last stand at had nothing to do with saving the Borg.

She was only there because she wanted Locutus.

 

[JRoss]

Borg didn't bother with technologically inferior species. They'd never need to adapt to bullets. I'm certain that from whatever they began as, they started with high enough tech to consider chemically-propelled projectile weapons beneath their notice. Remember that they are incapable of original thought, but rely on adapting from others.

 

[JRoss]

@Cakemixo: Black holes do not work that way. If your average BH has the same mass as a star, then it has the same gravity as that star. A BH is only "dangerous" if you get too close, just like a star.

Trek sensors can detect a BH. The only way that I can think of weaponizing one, at least against a foe as advanced as the Borg is to use Romulan kamikaze attacks. And we don't know the exact properties of their sinularities. As we've seen Rommie ships get destroyed without other people going "Oh snap, a black hole is sucking us in!" then we can reasonably assume that they likely decay outside of their chamber. Yes, I know that there was that one time-freezy episode, but that was supposed to be a freak anomaly, just like any time the Enterprise malfunctions.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Can't weaponize a black hole?

*cough* [highlight]Red Matter[/highlight] *cough*

 

[JRoss]

Well, true, I guess. I'm just saying that in the context presented it wouldn't work. But yeah, you could shoot some mystery goo at it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Then of course there's something like the caretakers array or that Slingshot(based on caretaker tech) with which you can immediately throw a cube into a black hole without giving the Borg time to notice what was going on.

Ye gods.

Imagine if Janeway thought that she could have held the Array for a couple weeks before complying with caretakers wishes to blow the fuck the fuck up? She'd be tracking down cubes on the other side of the quadrant and throwing them into the Ocampan Sun. And other than a healthy respect for life, there's no reason they couldn't have done the say thing to the Kazon once they got on top of the technology IF they continued to bare down on her.

Frakking Moons could start materializing inside Unimatrixes.

Boom.

The Array was a super weapon which would have finished the War with the Borg post haste over night.

 

[Lord Manitou]

Perhaps the Borg should offer light refreshments and anaesthetic during the Assimilation Process?

I for one would welcome a good cup of Tea, some nice chocolate-gingers and a heavy sedative whilst they're slicing into my eye and replacing it with a blinky-LED.

Or chopping off my right arm to be replaced with a thing that goes "Whirr."

Or removing my insides with a large, rusty spoon.

It's only polite.

I begin to see the merits of a Shotgun after all. A real "F*ck you!" feeling if you blow a Drone's face off. Some recompense when the next drone gives you foreplay in the form of injection tubules.

Tingly!

According to Star Trek the Borg drone is dead and kept alive with nanoprobes interfacing with machinery. For example, you could cut off it's head and he'll still keep walking toward you but only blind. It's the same type of argument in 'Resident Evil' movie and other dead come alive movies. A high caliber rifle would do better.
This is to say 'Seven of Nine' was dead when Voyager encountered her and the doctor brought her alive to be called 'Seven'.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think it depends on what is used first.

I just don't buy it.

But it is in keeping with how the Borg operate. They adapt to whatever is used against them if given time.

Star Trek posits a galaxy teeming with advanced civilisations and we've seen more than one that uses melee weapons. If they were going to develop resistance to that kind of attack they would have a loooooong time ago. Hell in their first appearance no one could get near them because of their personal shield generators that magically disappeared later.

But we also see that the Borg only adapt to one weapon at a time too. Say you hit them with phasers, they'll adapt to that. You then may have a narrow window of opportunity to use another weapon before they adapt to that too. Previous experience with such weapons is likely what allows them to adapt, but they don't seem able to adapt to multiple weapons simultaneously.