TNG reused quite a few alien spacecraft as well.
Revisiting Star Trek TOS/TAS...
- Thread starter Warped9
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As long as they're not low-polygon replacements. If they are they can just leave the model work in.
Something Way to Eden did wrong that every other show at the time did wrong when they featured hippies as the main plotline - the actors playing the hippies were too old to be hippies ("Never trust anyone over 30!")! And it always just came off as, well, too-old actors playing "establishment" caricatures of hippies!
I'm also amused that one of them was played by Charles Napier, who spent so much time later in his career playing tough guys and rednecks and other opposite-of-hippie roles.
I'm also amused that one of them was played by Charles Napier, who spent so much time later in his career playing tough guys and rednecks and other opposite-of-hippie roles.
A.V.I.A.F.
Captain
I agree with you there. The original may be simple and crude, but at least it looks like a space vehicle that’s a product of advanced technology.I'm sorry, but that looks like a tadpole or a grey coloured sperm with nacelles. It looks stupid. Now the original Aurora doesn't look so bad.
Really? Because I find that the original models look more like they are the product of a highly restrictive budget. I found that whenever a TOS episode would cut to an outer space scene with an alien ship (especially if it was not to be a recurring ship like a Fed starship or Klingon battle cruiser) my eyes would kind of glaze over for that moment and I would ignore the incredible simplicity of design. I am a die-hard TOS fan only type but I have to say that I really am enjoying the TOS-R's massive improvements to ship designs among other things. I would rather a sperm-shaped tadpole to the windowless and plain original.
My only complaint with the new model is the texturing. (Not a strong suit of TOS-R to begin with.) Otherwise it's not a bad design. It looks like the simple construction a "guest star" ship would have received. It looks like a Jefferies-ish design. As CRA pointed out the biggest problem with the Tholaurora was that we had JUST seen the Tholians. And it's not like they replaced the friggin' Romulan warbird here or anything.
^^
To call this a travesty or even stupid is about as credible as saying that the TOS-R D7 was lovingly and expertly rendered the way it always should have been.
And, um. Space hippies. Yeah. *shudder*
It's not even aztec-ing. It's just not-good-ing.
"Requiem For Methuselah" ****
The Enterprise encounters an enigmatic recluse on a supposedly uninhabited planet.
I rather like this episode and I always have in varying degrees. And that's even while acknowledging that it has a glaring flaw: Kirk falling so hard and so fast for Rayna just isn't credible. The only rationalization I can imagine is that Kirk was being manipulated or influenced beyond what we see onscreen.
Perhaps Rayna was made with highly powerful pheromones or some other agent or means that influenced and enhanced Kirk's responses. It could have been very much like Elan's tears seen previously in "Elaan Of Troyius." The pity is we can only speculate because we're not given any clue onscreen.
Setting that issue aside I do think this is an interesting story on a number of levels. Never mind the historical fudging (because this is Star Trek's reality and not ours), but that an immortal having lived through the centuries and having been many well known figures is a compelling idea for a story. And then in the far future he elects to create a mate for himself, as immortal and as brilliant as he. Then in the end he not only loses what could have been the love of his life, but also learns he himself is no longer immortal. And if Rayna had survived then she would have outlived him.
Although they sidestep any technobabble that would surely have been tossed in if this story had been done in TNG, I admit that Rayna's death seems very much like Lal's in TNG's "The Offspring." Both were artificial lifeforms that hadn't had time to adapt to their new found emotions.
I must also say that I was gratified to see Rayna portrayed more like the Roger Corby type androids in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" rather than the stupidity portrayed in "I, Mudd." Indeed she seems much more like the kind of construct that Sargon and Thalassa and Henock (from "Return To Tomorrow") could have inhabited.
The episode is also dressed better than some other third season episodes with Flint's and Rayna's costumes and Flint's elaborate home and laboratory.
This also wasn't a run-and-jump style adventure story. This was more a thoughtful science fiction story and an interesting compliment and contrast to "The Way To Eden" before it. The two episodes give us something of two different glimpses of TOS' far future society.
I find it rather classy for lack of a better word. That sense is certainly bolstered by its rather literary sounding title.
The Enterprise encounters an enigmatic recluse on a supposedly uninhabited planet.
I rather like this episode and I always have in varying degrees. And that's even while acknowledging that it has a glaring flaw: Kirk falling so hard and so fast for Rayna just isn't credible. The only rationalization I can imagine is that Kirk was being manipulated or influenced beyond what we see onscreen.
Perhaps Rayna was made with highly powerful pheromones or some other agent or means that influenced and enhanced Kirk's responses. It could have been very much like Elan's tears seen previously in "Elaan Of Troyius." The pity is we can only speculate because we're not given any clue onscreen.
Setting that issue aside I do think this is an interesting story on a number of levels. Never mind the historical fudging (because this is Star Trek's reality and not ours), but that an immortal having lived through the centuries and having been many well known figures is a compelling idea for a story. And then in the far future he elects to create a mate for himself, as immortal and as brilliant as he. Then in the end he not only loses what could have been the love of his life, but also learns he himself is no longer immortal. And if Rayna had survived then she would have outlived him.
Although they sidestep any technobabble that would surely have been tossed in if this story had been done in TNG, I admit that Rayna's death seems very much like Lal's in TNG's "The Offspring." Both were artificial lifeforms that hadn't had time to adapt to their new found emotions.
I must also say that I was gratified to see Rayna portrayed more like the Roger Corby type androids in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" rather than the stupidity portrayed in "I, Mudd." Indeed she seems much more like the kind of construct that Sargon and Thalassa and Henock (from "Return To Tomorrow") could have inhabited.
The episode is also dressed better than some other third season episodes with Flint's and Rayna's costumes and Flint's elaborate home and laboratory.
This also wasn't a run-and-jump style adventure story. This was more a thoughtful science fiction story and an interesting compliment and contrast to "The Way To Eden" before it. The two episodes give us something of two different glimpses of TOS' far future society.
I find it rather classy for lack of a better word. That sense is certainly bolstered by its rather literary sounding title.
'**', Kirk is just too far out of character.
Agreed, and I acknowledge that. Yet I find myself enjoying this story and how it unfolds nonetheless. I explained how I rationalize Kirk's behaviour and I only wish at least a spoken reference or two could have been slipped in to make it more clear.
Maybe this was the event that led Starfleet to believe that Kirk needed to be moved out of the captain's chair into a more stable environment.
“The Savage Curtain” ***
An alien compels Kirk and Spock to demonstrate the differences between good and evil.
While there are elements of interest in this story in the end it all comes off as just okay. The most interesting parts are some of the personages presented to us: Lincoln, Surak, Colonel Green and Kahless. The caveat, of course, is that these are not true representations of these people but rather the impressions of them drawn mostly from the minds of Kirk and Spock.
Lincoln comes off as pretty much how Kirk envisions him and there is the impression that it could be a touch rose coloured. I found Surak's depiction to be quite interesting. Kahless' depiction is disappointing because he has none of the presence or bearing as TOS' best Klingons, Kor and Kang. He is also nothing like TNG's depiction of Kahless which I found far more interesting. Colonel Green comes off as just another heavy and with nothing to really flesh him out. Of course in juggling so many characters it's easy to see that most of them would be little more caricatures.
Although not really addressed I'm bothered by the idea that a technically advanced race could arise on a world of molten lava. How the hell could they even develop metallurgy and electronics and such? It just struck me as a wholly unnecessary element just thrown into the story to make things seem more weirdly exotic. We have no clue whatsoever as to how the Excalbians could be manipulating the Enterprise at a distance.
Like many TOS stories I think there is a good one in here to be told, but perhaps there were just too many ingredients thrown in to cook up anything more than just a passable stew.
An alien compels Kirk and Spock to demonstrate the differences between good and evil.
While there are elements of interest in this story in the end it all comes off as just okay. The most interesting parts are some of the personages presented to us: Lincoln, Surak, Colonel Green and Kahless. The caveat, of course, is that these are not true representations of these people but rather the impressions of them drawn mostly from the minds of Kirk and Spock.
Lincoln comes off as pretty much how Kirk envisions him and there is the impression that it could be a touch rose coloured. I found Surak's depiction to be quite interesting. Kahless' depiction is disappointing because he has none of the presence or bearing as TOS' best Klingons, Kor and Kang. He is also nothing like TNG's depiction of Kahless which I found far more interesting. Colonel Green comes off as just another heavy and with nothing to really flesh him out. Of course in juggling so many characters it's easy to see that most of them would be little more caricatures.
Although not really addressed I'm bothered by the idea that a technically advanced race could arise on a world of molten lava. How the hell could they even develop metallurgy and electronics and such? It just struck me as a wholly unnecessary element just thrown into the story to make things seem more weirdly exotic. We have no clue whatsoever as to how the Excalbians could be manipulating the Enterprise at a distance.
Like many TOS stories I think there is a good one in here to be told, but perhaps there were just too many ingredients thrown in to cook up anything more than just a passable stew.
As much as I like "Requiem", it does really screw with Kirk's character.
Kirk falls so hard and so fast for Rayna (in what, six hours?) that it strains credulity.
But worse than that... it's not just a matter of stopping by for a visit and falling for Rayna. The entire crew was at risk from the disease that would kill them all--in a matter of hours! Kirk endangers the lives of his whole crew, who are in imminent and mortal danger, to romance Rayna.
He should have known better, and Spock and McCoy should also have had a better sense of urgency about the whole matter.
It could have been better with some other medical dilemma.
Maybe an illness on another planet, rather than jeopardizing the entire starship crew. Maybe have the disease reach danger levels in two weeks rather than six hours.
I can see Kirk falling for Rayna if he had a mission to complete in a couple weeks rather than by the end of the business day.
Kirk falls so hard and so fast for Rayna (in what, six hours?) that it strains credulity.
But worse than that... it's not just a matter of stopping by for a visit and falling for Rayna. The entire crew was at risk from the disease that would kill them all--in a matter of hours! Kirk endangers the lives of his whole crew, who are in imminent and mortal danger, to romance Rayna.
He should have known better, and Spock and McCoy should also have had a better sense of urgency about the whole matter.
It could have been better with some other medical dilemma.
Maybe an illness on another planet, rather than jeopardizing the entire starship crew. Maybe have the disease reach danger levels in two weeks rather than six hours.
I can see Kirk falling for Rayna if he had a mission to complete in a couple weeks rather than by the end of the business day.
The tale of the immortal living throughout ancient times and into the present, as well as the future has been told by SF authors for many years. Its an intriguing if unlikely subject...its one of the few cases where I probably wanted to BE one of the ST characters. I enjoy living in modern times but imagine if your current existence was the product of so many experiences...I think the perspective may be a little different. Eventually, without some sort of major body-mind altering event, might come boredom, a lack of empathy for the humanity you left behind, and an ironic sense of loss and need for that same humanity...Flint is that man...
Its a great concept, not quite lived up to by the execution. For one Flint starts off ok, but winds up getting into a macho clash of wills with Kirk. I find this hard to believe for a man with such experience. Kirk also seems to fall in love rather easily in season 3...it might have been better if they simply wrote Kirk as a man who wanted to "save" Rayna from the life she was living. What's worse, Rayna is interesting up until an emotional breakdown that she simply couldn't handle! Emotion does her in because of course, AI can never handle such things. Despite that, Rayna is one of the more advanced androids in TOS. Much of this can be forgiven, the episode is rather leisurely paced, but it seems very appropriate and works throughout. There is some very good writing here.
The episode was written by Jerome Bixby, who later went on to adapt it once again into the excellent, award winning: "Man From Earth" movie screenplay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_From_Earth
Note must be made of a staggeringly good matte by Max Gabl of Flint's home in the TOS-R version, which adds fine little touches, like a rocket and observatory in giving TOS's locales some variety.
The original was pretty darn good too:
As an aside...isn't it interesting to see a helper robot for Flint? Seems logical that such hovering, flitting machines would exist by this time, helping with everything from science missions to getting Kirk's shoes. Its efficiency is obvious, it even does a better job than Spock at some tasks. Episode: **** stars
I have one central impression of this episode, it actually rings true...despite all the black and white images we may have of good and evil, quite often they really do use the same methods...there are lots of shades of gray which people are not ready to admit. The episode could have had uber hero Kirk, pacifist Surak, idealized Lincoln and near-pacifist Spock really come off as straight-laced boy scouts. The historical characters give a rare glimpse into the history of the Earth and some other high profile planets. There is a rare attempt to make a truly alien being. Overall, it lacks the necessary cohesion and intensity to be a great episode, but its a step above the usual 3rd season episode. **** stars
And you sum up why there had to be some other powerful influence at work, only regrettably it isn't spelled out for us.
. . . Note must be made of a staggeringly good matte by Max Gabl of Flint's home in the TOS-R version, which adds fine little touches, like a rocket and observatory in giving TOS's locales some variety.
Yes, it’s a beautiful matte painting. I see Romanesque arches, domes, campaniles and cupolas, something that looks like an observatory dome containing a telescope, and a large ornamental globe. Rocket? What rocket?
Of course, that’s the painting of the Rigel fortress recycled from “The Cage.” You knew that, right?The original was pretty darn good too:
I must say that in some cases I would award or detract half a point for episodes when I feel conflicted, but from the beginning I elected for a more clear cut whole number rating system.
Case in point:
“All Our Yesterdays” ***
Kirk, Spock and McCoy finds themselves trapped in a planet's distant past shortly before the planet's sun is to go nova.
There are some good moments in this, most particularly I like how it's McCoy that puts everything together before Spock does.
I do find it interesting that Sarpeidon's science has mastered time travel, but not space travel. Of course we don't know the culture or its history and there may well be a reason why they never developed space travel. Or perhaps once they had and later turned their back on it. At any rate it's an interesting idea that an entire planet's population escapes the destruction of their world by retreating into the past. It certainly sets up an interesting situation for our heroes who are inadvertently transported into that past.
The idea that the Atavachron "prepares" you for a past era sounds kind of dodgy to me. Evolution doesn't really work that way. Except for acquired knowledge there really isn't any physiological difference between contemporary humans and our ancestors. In extent of that there is no reason for Spock to revert to the behaviour of his distant ancestors...except that it makes for drama.
Mr Atoz has replicas as assistants. Of course, the term clone wasn't yet in widespread use. It's also interesting that in TOS' time they can time when a star will go nova practically to the minute, and without any technobabble.
Overall it's an okay episode. I must say I rather like that shot of the Enterprise flyby as the star goes nova.
Case in point:
“All Our Yesterdays” ***
Kirk, Spock and McCoy finds themselves trapped in a planet's distant past shortly before the planet's sun is to go nova.
There are some good moments in this, most particularly I like how it's McCoy that puts everything together before Spock does.
I do find it interesting that Sarpeidon's science has mastered time travel, but not space travel. Of course we don't know the culture or its history and there may well be a reason why they never developed space travel. Or perhaps once they had and later turned their back on it. At any rate it's an interesting idea that an entire planet's population escapes the destruction of their world by retreating into the past. It certainly sets up an interesting situation for our heroes who are inadvertently transported into that past.
The idea that the Atavachron "prepares" you for a past era sounds kind of dodgy to me. Evolution doesn't really work that way. Except for acquired knowledge there really isn't any physiological difference between contemporary humans and our ancestors. In extent of that there is no reason for Spock to revert to the behaviour of his distant ancestors...except that it makes for drama.
Mr Atoz has replicas as assistants. Of course, the term clone wasn't yet in widespread use. It's also interesting that in TOS' time they can time when a star will go nova practically to the minute, and without any technobabble.
Overall it's an okay episode. I must say I rather like that shot of the Enterprise flyby as the star goes nova.
A '****' outing for me. I like the concept, like Mr. Atoz and I love how the episode utilizes our heroes. And it also features the lovely Mariette Hartley.
I don't think it's being in the past that affects Spock so much as the environment. Probably a very primal survival instinct kicked in when he thought he was trapped in an ice age.
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