NASA Moving Ahead With Orion

[SchwEnt]

Aww, I still don't know why Constellation was scrapped.
I thought it and the planned objectives were okay.

I read the whole ESAS and it worked.
The objectives were to use as much STS-based hardware as was feasible (check). It had to be designed to keep crew and cargo separate (check). It had to be adaptable for a long lifetime and multi-mission capable (check).

The biggest arguments I've heard are those saying that it's too far behind schedule and too little budget was allocated to achieve its goals.

But from the very start, the Constellation proposal always said it was to begin with seed money to get started and then ramp up dramatically when all the shuttle monies (which are considerable) shift over to Constellation *when the shuttle is retired*

Well, the shuttle isn't retired yet. And Constellation is scrapped before the real money was ever put into the project. Damn.

 

[throwback]

I have seen pictures of this new improved spacecraft, and I have been able to identify the command/service module. Where is the lander?

 

[RobertVA]

I have seen pictures of this new improved spacecraft, and I have been able to identify the command/service module. Where is the lander?

As far as I can tell that's left for another program.

With the Constellation program the lander would have been launched first atop an Aries V and the crew subsequently atop an Aries I. After separating from the Aries I second stage the Orion would have docked with the lander before the combined spacecraft were pushed out of low Earth orbit by the upper stage of the Aries V.

 

[sojourner]

Aww, I still don't know why Constellation was scrapped.
I thought it and the planned objectives were okay.

I read the whole ESAS and it worked.
The objectives were to use as much STS-based hardware as was feasible (check).

Read closer, it wasn't really using much of the sts hardware as originally envisioned.

It had to be designed to keep crew and cargo separate (check). It had to be adaptable for a long lifetime and multi-mission capable (check).

The biggest arguments I've heard are those saying that it's too far behind schedule and too little budget was allocated to achieve its goals.

Ares I was a disaster of development. vibration problems and lack of lifting ability kept forcing re-designs of Orion. Orion was originally going to be bigger, reusable, capable of "land" landing, have a toilet, and more robust life support. All of that was stripped out due to Ares constantly shrinking payload capability.

But from the very start, the Constellation proposal always said it was to begin with seed money to get started and then ramp up dramatically when all the shuttle monies (which are considerable) shift over to Constellation *when the shuttle is retired*

Well, the shuttle isn't retired yet. And Constellation is scrapped before the real money was ever put into the project. Damn.

Yep, straying from "shuttle derived" and lack of money really torpedoed Constellation.

 

[ThankQ]

Okay, since we have some shuttle haters in here, I just want to make one totally unimportant point.

The stack on the pad looks amazingly beautiful. I know the program has many faults, but it is unquestionably best looking launch system we ever had. The stack is sexy. Rockets are BORING!

I know that really doesn't mean a mound of peas, but I'm just saying. I hope someday NASA will bring sexy back, but I fear they've lost the receipt.

 

[sojourner]

Yeah, the shuttle is romantic as hell. I have to agree there.

 

[timothy]

From Yahoo:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110524/sc_afp/usspaceorioncompanylockheed_20110524183213

Looks like "Apollo: The Next Generation" to me.

it looks like the autobot cosmo.

 

[Roland Deschain]

Why not build a massive ship in space, it would incorpoate all the novel cutting edge technologies which haven't been fully developed yet like electrically generated radiation shielding, VASIMIR engines etc. Moreoever a considerable amount of research could go into just building the thing rather than relying on tried and true methods.

For example it would have a huge hydroponics bay, spacious quarters and a massive cargo bay housing VASIMIR shuttles. It would be used primarily for mining and scientific exploration. It would also be armed with nuclear warheads and laser cannons for (the lulz) space defence.

It would be so cool and basically the people who would build it would do so for less than minimum wage because they would be creating something incredible for the love it of it, their payment would be the construction of an incredible starship, its a geeks dream come true and many scientists wouldn't mind being paid peanuts just to realize something as awesome as this. That way it would be financially feasible.

 

[SilentP]

Why not build a massive ship in space, it would incorpoate all the novel cutting edge technologies which haven't been fully developed yet like electrically generated radiation shielding, VASIMIR engines etc. Moreoever a considerable amount of research could go into just building the thing rather than relying on tried and true methods.

I'm not sure what the current agreement is on zero-g vacuum manufacture of large scale vehicles is with current level technologies, the idea does have merit.

It would be so cool and basically the people who would build it would do so for less than minimum wage because they would be creating something incredible for the love it of it, their payment would be the construction of an incredible starship, its a geeks dream come true and many scientists wouldn't mind being paid peanuts just to realize something as awesome as this. That way it would be financially feasible.

While I love the idea of a full scale starship being built, especially if I got to work on it, I'd still want a good wage for it. A guy's gotta eat

 

[Roland Deschain]

Why not build a massive ship in space, it would incorpoate all the novel cutting edge technologies which haven't been fully developed yet like electrically generated radiation shielding, VASIMIR engines etc. Moreoever a considerable amount of research could go into just building the thing rather than relying on tried and true methods.

I'm not sure what the current agreement is on zero-g vacuum manufacture of large scale vehicles is with current level technologies, the idea does have merit.

It would be so cool and basically the people who would build it would do so for less than minimum wage because they would be creating something incredible for the love it of it, their payment would be the construction of an incredible starship, its a geeks dream come true and many scientists wouldn't mind being paid peanuts just to realize something as awesome as this. That way it would be financially feasible.

While I love the idea of a full scale starship being built, especially if I got to work on it, I'd still want a good wage for it. A guy's gotta eat

Employees would be fed porridge, no doubt it would be gruelling work. Ah screw that, how did the egyptians build the pyramids? Lets just create a slave force that will work under a religious doctrine of science worship.

 

[sojourner]

Your first post made me think you were serious but misguided. Now I see with your second post that you are just having fun.

 

[Roland Deschain]

Your first post made me think you were serious but misguided. Now I see with your second post that you are just having fun.

No, I'm totally serious. It would probably require unpaid labour to develop and build a ship on that scale. We'd have to do away with the concept of money entirely for such a thing and the majority of people would have to be totally for it. Otherwise it wouldn't be economically feasible, maybe it will be in 500 years time but not now. However I feel this would push progress forward much faster than simply going back to tired designs.

 

[sojourner]

Right. Sure.

 

[Colonel Midnight]

Slightly OT, but given that the Shuttles are heading to the Barn, I guess there's a connection. Did anyone see these photos of Shuttle Endeavor moored to the Space Station?

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/multimedia/e27depart.html

Beautiful stuff.

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[Squiggy]

It would probably require unpaid labour to develop and build a ship on that scale.

Because when you're building the most complex thing ever...you wanna rely on slaves.

 

[clint g]

It would probably require unpaid labour to develop and build a ship on that scale.

Because when you're building the most complex thing ever...you wanna rely on slaves.

Well, it's worked in the past

 

[Roland Deschain]

It would probably require unpaid labour to develop and build a ship on that scale.

Because when you're building the most complex thing ever...you wanna rely on slaves.

Well, it's worked in the past

haha lol, well it would also be the most pointless thing ever at this point in time. Just a big expensive project with no real purpose, it would be like giving the Romans a space shuttle.

 

[throwback]

The reason I am favor of a larger ship than the Orion is psychological. Until we develop technology that can transport humans to Mars in a few hours, I don't see how humans will live and work comfortably in this small 'tin can'.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Perhaps they will sleep for the entire trip, like in Journey to the Far Side of the Sun.

 

[Jetfire]

Yeah, the shuttle is romantic as hell. I have to agree there.

It really is.