Well, that was a chain of neat looking moments. It would have been cool had there been a story, too.
6x07 A Good Man Goes To War (Grade/Discuss) SPOILERS!
- Thread starter Neroon
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I'm thinking about this episode some more (Gave it the one below "Victory") and I have to wonder if it would have benefitted from having an extra episode between it and The Almost People. I mean other than seeing like 1-3 second images of eye patch lady through the season, we didn't really get much set up to this point and it felt like a huge leap from where we were to where we went. Maybe that's what we might get in the second half of the season, but I'm thinking about this episode and I don't really see a cohesive flowing story. I guess the best way to describe this feeling is we jumped from the prologue to the middle and still unsure about the ending. Where was the beginning of this story?
Not necessarily - you just have to have seen "Victory of the Daleks" from last year, which is what this was actually referring to.
That's not quite what I got. It didn't happen after they started time travelling - rather, it's the reason they started time travelling.
As I understand it, the Untempered Schism exists on Gallifrey, probably by pure coincidence. By simple virtue of it being there and their permanent proximity to it, the local humanoid species developed a sensitivity to it. They evolved to use it and be able to handle its excesses, that's why a human can't handle what's in a Time Lord's brain, because they didn't grow up next to the Untempered Schism. It inspired their research into how to use the Time Vortex to travel around off their planet, and the sheer convenience of it being there certainly didn't hurt. They're Time Lords because they evolved on Gallifrey. If Earth had had an Untempered Schism, we would have been Time Lords too. As for Daleks, I assume they just learned to time travel the old fashioned way, but don't have the innate sensitivity for it that Gallifreyans have.
Yeah, gonna have to agree with you there. A hell of a lot of plot, not a lot of story.
That and interesting analysis and let me throw in my two credits on this. Amy grew up with that crack in her wall with space and time pouring into her dreams every night. Now granted, the effects of the wall crack are probably not the same as effects of The Untempered Schism but it might be enough to start a human on it's way to being a Time Lord. So I think Rory and Amy's baby is a result not only of The TARDIS but of that crack in the wall.
Also, keep in mind that Rory was also consumed by the crack and brought back. It doesn't surprise me that their child would be quite unique.
Yeah but I believe the cracks and any effects they had were erased from history.
On another matter theres one thing that bugs me about this ep. I just don't buy that this whole thing is becuase their afriad of the Doctor becuase they were never afriad of him during the episode except after he pretty much beat them and then not very much. I mean what is the point of a superweapon if you think you can beat its target with your regular forces.
That what I've been thinking about because River being their daughter seems like an indication of something bigger to come. I have to believe that if River really is part Time Lord and can re-generate what would be the consequences of River and The Doctor having a child. I think it might Steven Moffat's way to bring back The Time Lords or his own version of The Time Lords.
Similar to what he did with RTD's Daleks and creating his Power Ranger Daleks.
Thought it was pretty good, but definitely not one of Moffatt's better ones. The setup just seemed a little TOO rushed and random this time. And while I usually love the way he drops us into the middle of the action, this was one time when I think we REALLY needed to see more of a buildup to finding Amy, and to see the Doctor and Rory have to figure things out a bit. And most important, to build the new villains up as more of a threat first.
Because the way we're dropped into the situation now, it's hard to know WHAT to make of these guys. They certainly don't come across as one of the Doctor's more intimidating foes, and other than the fact they kidnapped Amy (which certainly isn't a first for one of his companions) barely make much of an impression here at ALL. Hell, from the looks of the place the army he put together barely even seemed necessary.
Of all the possible identities for River, I did think this was probably the best one though. Just because it's so wonderfully... odd. I can't even imagine how someone in Amy's place would react upon realizing a woman old enough to be your mother was actually your daughter.
Because the way we're dropped into the situation now, it's hard to know WHAT to make of these guys. They certainly don't come across as one of the Doctor's more intimidating foes, and other than the fact they kidnapped Amy (which certainly isn't a first for one of his companions) barely make much of an impression here at ALL. Hell, from the looks of the place the army he put together barely even seemed necessary.
Of all the possible identities for River, I did think this was probably the best one though. Just because it's so wonderfully... odd. I can't even imagine how someone in Amy's place would react upon realizing a woman old enough to be your mother was actually your daughter.
Yeah, I really didn't care for that. I'm not sure what it is, but this entire season is not working for me at all. I can't fault the writing or the acting, but something is definitely off this year. I just wish I could put my finger on what it is that I dislike so much.
I wonder if it's just the overall charm is gone. Yeah we get some quirkyness from Smith and that's fine, but it seems like this season isn't as "fun" as other seasons were, and we're not pulled into the characters plight as much as say Season 1, 4, or even 5. In other years, when I see people criticizing the hell out of Doctor Who, I wonder why and why we can't be one big happy family because it's Doctor Who and it's cool, and it's fun. This year it just doesn't feel that way and before last night, I wasn't really in any rush to watch the show.
I wonder if the show has gotten too dark/complicated/over-the-top too. I mean I was looking online at some articles about how people are being turned off by this season (And the show losing it's family appeal) and I wonder if I agree with that sentiment or not. I am leaning towards that way though and that's not cool.
Funny you mention that, because the overabundance of blacks in recent British television shows actually does make me wonder about possible agenda of some kind.
Oh, for Christ's sake. Yes, there's an agenda: The agenda is ending the practice of not depicting minorities in mass media so as not to play into the practice of ignoring them in the wider culture as a means of reinforcing the majority's power over them, and doing all this in order to encourage equality and, therefore, greater liberty for all.
This is a good agenda, not a bad one.
It's okay, they don't bite.
Where to start?
1. Not all British people are white. Britishness is a cultural construction, not an ethnic construction. Britishness already by definition encompasses English, Scots, Welsh, and Irish, since the United Kingdom was created from uniting England, Scotland, Wales, and (first all of, and then just Northern) Ireland. So why would you think it can't encompass other ethnicities as well?
2. Not all Americans are white. Again, American is a political construct. The thing that defines us as Americans is our common allegiance to the United States Constitution and our U.S. citizenship. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it.
3. African Americans are just as American as European Americans. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts. Black Americans are no less American than white Americans. Full stop. Claiming that "Americans have become a minority in their own country" in the context of talking about greater minority representation on TV makes it sound like you think white Americans are the only real Americans, and other ethnicities are somehow less legitimately American than whites. They're not.
4. Americans of European descent make up 3/4ths of the entire United States population. They make up an overwhelming majority of Members of Congress, the Supreme Court, high levels of executive branch departments, Corporate America, Wall Street, and of the wealthiest Americans. They are, in fact, vastly over-represented in most of these key powerful institutions. And they dominate the politics and business world throughout the country.
To claim that European Americans have been "made a minority in their own country" is patent nonsense.
It's also irrelevant, because even if it were true -- so what? As long as our rights are respected (and, yes, I am speaking as a white American of English heritage) and we're treated equally, that's all that matters. Whites don't have any inherent right to be a majority or to dominate others, any more than blacks do or Latinos do. As long as we're all equal and treat each other equally, it doesn't matter who outnumbers whom. After all -- and I'm only talking about America, here -- we're all Americans who pledge allegiance to the same flag and Constitution, and that's all that matters at the end of the day.
You are my new hero. That is a great reply of intelligence and courage.
Back onto track of the thread with some questions:
#1 Who were these people? Awesome episode, but where the bloody hell did eyepatch lady and her giant, giant army of religious warriors come from? We've never seen her or them before and I have no idea WHY the hate the Doctor enough to form an entire army against him.
#2 Did the Doctor know who eyepatch lady was? I couldn't tell if he recognized her as a foe or not.
#3 Why did the Doctor wait a month to attack them? He has a time machine. They implied that this time was spent raising his own army, but since his own army were people from other times, accessed via the TARDIS then you'd think the Doctor would show up the very second after he severed the link to Amy (causal nexus explaining why he couldn't show up sooner or prevent her kidnapping).
The Doctor spending a month of his life traveling time and space does not equal a month for Amy as a prisoner post delivery of her child.
#4 Why didn't the Doctor go calling on Captain Jack for his team of allies? Seems like the perfect man to fight this battle.
#5 If the Big Blue Guy (not gonna try and fail to spell his name) dies here, then how does he give River her vortex manipulator in the Pandorica Opens? I thought River was travelling backwards, meaning that each time we see her she knows less. She should not yet have her vortex manipulator, and thus Big Blue Guy needs to still be alive.
#6 How did River know so much about the battle of Demon's Run? Baby aside, she wasn't there. She spoke of the event as though it had happened to her. Yeah, yeah, she was the baby, but surely she does not remember that day. So how does she know as much as she does.
#7 "This is the day he finds out who I am." She says this here and in the past as though it is a BAD thing, but it was rather good, wasn't it? Cheered the Doctor right up from his momentary mental depression or whatever.
I wouldn't describe it as complicated, so much as sterile. For all its external action, the RTD era was tremendously introspective. It spent a lot of time letting us know the characters from the inside, showing us how they felt and why they were motivated. I was recently rewatching "The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit" and was struck by the quiet scene, as the Doctor was descending into the Pit, between him and Ida Scott, discussing faith and why they believed the things they do. It gave us a lot of insight into Ida's history, and illustrated how the Doctor relates to the struggles of humanity and how he feels about Rose. Those sorts of scenes made RTD Who for me, and I can't thing of anything comparable with Eleven in the last two seasons. Have we ever gotten inside his head or heard him talk about his feelings, ever? I've been watching these characters for two seasons now and I still feel like I don't know who they are. Why should we care about anything when the main characters are quirky ciphers?
I can't believe everyone liked this so much, seemed really out-of-character to me. Rory running around in centurion gear while the Doctor extorts Cybermen with violence? The Doctor's army didn't seem to have any point nor the monks (other than providing an obvious disguise). The Doctor's been screwing around with Amy's daughter? Then there's the gay couple literally labeling themselves the "thin fat gay married marines" or whatever and "Demon's Run", the Sontaran nurse and so on just laying it on with a trowel.
I don't know, I guess I'm supposed to be impressed with all the cleverness on display but I just can't connect with anything.
EDIT: Also, didn't they exorcise all this tortured soul crap with Eccleston/Tennant? It didn't feel right at all aimed at Smith's run.
I don't know, I guess I'm supposed to be impressed with all the cleverness on display but I just can't connect with anything.
EDIT: Also, didn't they exorcise all this tortured soul crap with Eccleston/Tennant? It didn't feel right at all aimed at Smith's run.
Some amount of time was spent physically tracking them down once it was established what time period they were in. That could have taken a month. (The implication I got was that the Doctor finally got their exact location either from the Big Blue Guy, or by tracking Eyepatch Lady as she returned from visiting the Big Blue Guy.)
The Doctor told her?
Well, he's only got half the story so far. He knows Melody grows up to be River, and he knows they're trying to turn baby Melody into a weapon, but he hasn't seen how that worked out. That's what he's going to find out when he catches up with her.
So do I. Good stuff (even I don't agree as well).
I have a weak spot for that sort of sarcasm even if I don't fully agree.
Ah. I think you just nailed exactly the problem I have with this episode on the simplest level. Still, I think a rewatch is order at some point.
Excellent point. This has been bugging me as well and I think (and certainly hope) you're right about this, otherwise all of this has been rather overblown melodrama on River's (and Moffat's) part. We'll find out in September.
I still have a sneaky feeling from the way the Doctor responded to the news that River = Melody that She is also his Mum. "How do I look?" And there's a neat mid-way solution to the thing about him being 'half-human'. And it would explain why she knows his name.
And if it turned out that she was his mum.... some Amy/Doctor and/or River/Doctor shipping fanfic writers would squick, but some... would squee. Dirty buggers.
