Another Lit Wish List Thread

[Christopher]

http://kotaku.com/5808211/the-new-star-trek-game-boldly-goes-where-no-star-trek-game-has-gone-before

Videogame canon...

Had that ever happened before in Trek.

It never said it was canon. Orci & Kurtzman plotted Countdown too, but they've acknowledged it isn't part of the canon. Even if all the Abramsverse tie-ins are closely supervised and kept as consistent as possible, that doesn't mean the filmmakers can't ignore them if they so choose.

Then again, whether or not something is canon is not remotely as important as many fans imagine it is. The makers of new Star Trek productions have always been free to incorporate ideas from non-canonical sources (Sulu & Uhura's first names, the Klingon Day of Honor holiday, Andorian details from ENT) or to ignore or contradict ideas from earlier canon (the fast galactic travel of ST V vs. the decades-long trek in VGR, the assertions about transwarp in "Threshold" being ignored thereafter). And tie-in authors (except in the Richard Arnold Era) have been free to incorporate ideas from canon and non-canonical sources alike.

 

[Lonemagpie]

The one that he quoted, about the Voth.

I still can't believe that's the legal situation as things stand, though; it's so ridiculous. How is it that in this situation the courts are so heavily biased against an author? It's crazy. :/

There's no way Matthias could, like...sign a waiver to any rights to the idea or something? Because it's just awful that you'd have to entirely scrap a whole novel idea just because of a comment like that, Magpie.

It's just a page-long synopsis, there are probably other things I could do with the Voth.. Though probably not as interesting.

 

[SicOne]

Re: The Voth...

Does this mean that the books can never do a Voth in the Alpha Quadrant story?

It just means that those of us who read MatthiasRussell's specific idea about the Voth in the AQ can't use that particular idea. Those writers who couldn't possibly have seen the suggestion are safe. And surely there are other things that could be done with the idea of the Voth interacting with the Alpha Quadrant.

A story is not just characters and setting. What makes a story is events, conflicts, problems, choices. It's when you get specific about those -- what the characters want, what problems they face, what actions or decisions they make -- that you're suggesting a story. For instance, "Captain Kirk goes back in time" is not a story idea (not specific enough), but "Captain Kirk goes back in time and must let the love of his life die to preserve history" is a story idea.

Hmm, it might be a good idea for the forum to develop detailed guidelines for what constitutes a story idea.

For example, using the DS9 relaunch and specifically Fearful Symmetry/The Soul Key as an example (imagine this was back in 2000) would any of these count as speculations that should be followed up on, or story ideas:

-- So it turns out the Prophets planned for Sisko to be the Emissary. Does that mean the Mirror Universe Sisko should have been the Emissary to the Mirror Bajor?

-- Why does the wormhole exit near Idran? Is there something going on in that specific location? Are the Prophets worshiped in a parallel religion in the Gamma Quadrant? (Granted the Malibu Comics did a underwhelming story like this, so its been done before the DS9-R).

Can we present a question, and say someone should follow up on that, with only the specific answer legally problematic for the authors here?

A story idea is an answer to a question, a suggestion of a specific way events could unfold. I'd say those examples are borderline -- they do suggest possibilities, but maybe aren't quite specific enough to constitute story ideas, since they don't describe events or actions or conflicts. If you'd stopped before the last question in each, you'd be fine. As it is, I'm not sure these suggestions cross the line, though the first one comes closer (because "should have been" suggests a conflict or problem, and therefore a plot).

This give-and-take actually explains a lot that I didn't quite understand before. But it also raises a few questions.

There are several published Trek authors who are heavy participants here on the BBS...but how would the authors protect themselves from a BBS poster who saw something in one of the author's books that the author had originally thought of and put in the story but that the poster had also posted thoughts of that story idea (or the answer to a question, as described above) as well in Fan Fiction or Tech or some other forum? "Hey! That author stole my idea!" Depending upon how far they wanted to push it (i.e. hire an attorney and provide what they thought of as a little "evidence", such as the time/date stamp of their post or fanfict that predates the author's book, etc), could that pose considerable problems for the author? How would the author prove that it was his or her original idea, despite the posted discussions of it or the fanfict submitted on the BBS?

 

[Rush Limborg]

I still can't believe that's the legal situation as things stand, though; it's so ridiculous. How is it that in this situation the courts are so heavily biased against an author? It's crazy. :/

It is crazy, but it's not the courts' fault. It's the fault of people who file nuisance plagiarism lawsuits. Even though those lawsuits almost always get thrown out, it costs publishers and authors a great deal of money to fight them off. So from an economic standpoint, we have no choice but to adopt a zero-tolerance policy, to take no chances. We just can't afford to do anything else.

There's no way Matthias could, like...sign a waiver to any rights to the idea or something? Because it's just awful that you'd have to entirely scrap a whole novel idea just because of a comment like that, Magpie.

It's awful, but it's the way the nuisance lawsuit-filers have forced us to act. We can't take any chances. We can't treat it on a case-by-case basis, since we don't know who we can trust. It has to be a consistent, uniform policy. Because hiring lawyers to work out the specifics on a case-by-case basis would probably cost as much as hiring lawyers to fight off lawsuits. It's just not practical. And any waiver would be pretty much pointless unless it were signed and agreed to by both parties before the story idea were shared (like the way TNG, DS9, and VGR would read unsolicited spec scripts but only if you signed a waiver before submitting them).

I myself have had a similar problem: one of my college apartment-mates wants me to check his movie screenplay. I basically gave him the same lecture about how I'm legally not supposed to, if I'm a writer, myself.*

*sigh* Must be legal hell (pardon my vernacular), Chris. Do you encounter stuff like this on a regular basis--you know, not just revision requests, but "Hey, Mr. Bennet, I have a great idea for a novel, but I don't have the time--maybe you could write it?"

Don't know about you guys...but I say tort reform is needed, ASAP. Something to crack down on those lawsuit-happy pinheads....



*(Fortunately, he revealed he'd made sure to copyright it beforehand, etc. So...looks like I'll be giving feedback on a possible future Hollywood film!)

 

[Christopher]

There are several published Trek authors who are heavy participants here on the BBS...but how would the authors protect themselves from a BBS poster who saw something in one of the author's books that the author had originally thought of and put in the story but that the poster had also posted thoughts of that story idea (or the answer to a question, as described above) as well in Fan Fiction or Tech or some other forum?

By doing what I've just been doing: asking people not to post story ideas in the Trek Literature forum. And by avoiding the Fan Fiction forum altogether. Still, as today's events show, there's always a risk of running afoul of a post made by someone who's new and unfamiliar with the requirement. In that case, you just have to drop the project and chalk it up to experience.

Depending upon how far they wanted to push it (i.e. hire an attorney and provide what they thought of as a little "evidence", such as the time/date stamp of their post or fanfict that predates the author's book, etc), could that pose considerable problems for the author? How would the author prove that it was his or her original idea, despite the posted discussions of it or the fanfict submitted on the BBS?

Proving it is not the problem. Like I said, virtually all such plagiarism lawsuits get thrown out. The problem is that having to fight them off at all is very expensive, because lawyers have to be paid and people have to waste valuable time in court instead of working. If you get sued at all, you've already lost in a very real sense. That's why we have to be so careful to avoid even getting into a situation that could produce a lawsuit, even a totally bogus lawsuit (as most plagiarism suits are).

 

[Idran]

Proving it is not the problem. Like I said, virtually all such plagiarism lawsuits get thrown out. The problem is that having to fight them off at all is very expensive, because lawyers have to be paid and people have to waste valuable time in court instead of working. If you get sued at all, you've already lost in a very real sense. That's why we have to be so careful to avoid even getting into a situation that could produce a lawsuit, even a totally bogus lawsuit (as most plagiarism suits are).

There is one thing I don't get about that, though. I'm not a lawyer, but I know enough about the USC to say that federal law states if the litigation by a losing party itself has caused harm to the prevailing party, the losing party can be ordered to pay damages to the prevailing party to cover the cost of litigation. And that was passed specifically because of frivolous lawsuits like this. Obviously you're not a lawyer either, Christopher, but hopefully there is a lawyer here that can explain why that doesn't cover the harm caused by such frivolous plagiarism lawsuits for S&S and other publishing firms? Obviously there's a time concern too, but couldn't that be boilerplated away by just having a standard response to such drawn up rather than considering each on a case-by-case basis?

This only bugs me because, from what I do understand of the law, it makes no sense and is completely unfair to the author and the publisher. I'm not saying you guys are wrong about it by far, because I've heard about this far too often to think that. I'm just trying to better understand why it is the way it is.

 

[Christopher]

I don't know the legal details. I'm sure there are places online where you can research the subject if you're that interested. But like I said, it's not just about money, but about the time and effort that are wasted on the lawsuits when we could be working. Loss of time is loss of money.

And yeah, probably you're right about the losing party paying damages, but I think it's a cumulative thing -- for a publisher, if they allow any crack in the door, they could be flooded with nuisance lawsuits (even more than they are already) and it would impede their ability to do business, plus there might be some costs that weren't covered by those damages and added up. At least, it would take time before those damages could get paid, and that would be time a struggling writer couldn't afford.

But again, I'm no expert. There are no doubt better sources of information about this.

 

[JD]

I would like to see a story on the XCV-330. What made it a legend? And I think it should be written like an old sailing ship adventure. Possibly put it under the Lost Era banner. I don't know if anyone has read the books of Tony Horwitz but he has written some excellent reads in which he covers a historical event then visits the location in modern times to report the event's impact on the current culture. I think that would be an interesting approach. Tell the story of the xcv's voyage of exploration like a sailing ship adventure along with how the voyage impacted the later ufp.

Here another couple of mine:
The Voth come home. What happens? Do they want to reclaim Earth, wipe it off the map to kill interest among the Voth, or take pictures with dinosaur skeletons?

<deletes Word file>

Thanks a bunch.

MatthiasRussell, please do not post specific story suggestions on the Trek Lit forum, ever. Professional writers cannot allow ourselves to listen to unsolicited story ideas, and as Lonemagpie's (hopefully joking) response suggests, if we even hear an idea similar to something we're already working on, it requires us to abandon the idea lest we risk litigation.

and as Lonemagpie's (hopefully joking) response suggests,

no, that one I was working on...

Albeit to rip off the Silurians from Dr Who whom the Voth are conceptually already a ripoff of...

I can think of a few other things to do with them, maybe...

Damn, that's a shame. It just goes to show how important it is to obey the no story ideas rule on this forum.

Crap, I've been wanting to see this story since I first saw Distant Origin.

 

[Christopher]

Actually, come to think of it, I already offered a notion in Distant Shores: "Brief Candle" about what the Voth would probably do vis-a-vis Earth.

Spoiler: "Brief Candle"

As seen in "Distant Origin," Voth dogma is that the Delta Quadrant is their home, and they suppress or destroy any evidence that shows otherwise. Earth would be a pretty big piece of evidence. Do the math.

Although by the same token, it's unlikely that they'd have much interest in going to the Alpha Quadrant. As I portrayed them in "Brief Candle" and Places of Exile, they're modelled on Imperial China -- they see themselves as the center of the universe, the most advanced and prosperous and successful nation, and they feel they have everything they could possibly need. So they don't feel the need to travel beyond their territory. They let others come to them, or just avoid others.

Really, I think that's common sense. Their civilization is tens of millions of years old. If they had expansionistic urges, they'd already rule the whole galaxy.

 

[Expo67]

1. TOS series filling in the gap between TMP and TWOK
2. A Captain Hikaru Sulu series set on the U.S.S. Excelsior
3. A Captain Ronald Tracey mini-series(U.S.S. Exeter)set before the events of The Omega Glory.

 

[SicOne]

So, is this how it works?...an author (or wannabe author, or their agent; however it is you maneuver around the slush pile) registers a story idea with S&S or Paramount or whatever grand poobahs are in charge of such things, and then you are allowed to roll with it to turn it into an actual manuscript subject to further review, is this correct?

At this point, does the publisher step in and let their legal department handle any plagarism claims? Or do they just let you handle all of that if it comes up?

 

[Sxottlan]

If I may:

1. Finish the Ascendant storyline. Without an ending, most of the DS9R up until that then is rather pointless.

2. More Lost Era, especially in those old great covers! I know it may seem like that era is starting to fill in, but I think there's plenty more to do.

3. An anthology about the original 1701, from its construction to destruction.

4. I'd love to see a an ongoing series where each book explores in detail each one of the Federation's members. It's not really doable as many theorize that several members are in fact former colonies of a patron planet or species. So maybe it's really more of a species thing. And certainly some species have had more exploration than others. But while it may write some in to a corner later on, I really want to know what makes many of the member worlds tick. What is it that got them in to the Federation? How are they so different but able to take part in the Federation? I've recently felt the simple "neat factor" of the Federation has been really underplayed lately. Being a member world should be a big deal.

Perhaps it could just be a editorial dictate that each book try to explore a member world even if in a subplot. Watching the Clock really isn't a book about Delta, but I felt it really explored the Deltans more than I've seen elsewhere.

5. Publish Slings & Arrows in TPB.

6. A Starfleet Medical starship ebook series that I would not buy until it hit TPB.

7. Resolve many of the intriguing plot threads created and then left dangling i.e. the Neyel's return home.

8. I'd say bring back Gorkon, but it really looks like there wasn't interest and subsequent books appear to have broken that crew up too. Stargazer appeared like it'd have plenty of in-universe time to do tons with, but that stopped just as it was getting good.

 

[Christopher]

So, is this how it works?...an author (or wannabe author, or their agent; however it is you maneuver around the slush pile) registers a story idea with S&S or Paramount or whatever grand poobahs are in charge of such things, and then you are allowed to roll with it to turn it into an actual manuscript subject to further review, is this correct?

No, it's not like that at all. You don't "register a story idea," whatever that means. Story ideas are a dime a dozen; countless people come up with the same basic idea independently of each other all the time. Remember, the threat of lawsuits doesn't mean that the charges are in any way legitimate. They're utter and complete BS coming from people who don't understand how the creative process works, who fail to realize that story ideas by themselves are not unique things, that what makes a story is the execution, not the concept. The problem is that, even though the mentality behind the lawsuits is foolish and ignorant, the lawsuits themselves are still a costly nuisance that can harm the ability of publishers and writers to do their work. It's grossly unfair, but it's the sad reality of the system.

What you do is submit a pitch or an outline -- not just the idea, but how you execute it. That's what makes something a story. If the pitch is approved, then you get a contract. Sometimes an established author will get a contract before a pitch has even been submitted or accepted. But there's no "registration" involved. The contract specifies that it's a work-for-hire arrangement, that CBS owns your story and everything in it.

At this point, does the publisher step in and let their legal department handle any plagarism claims? Or do they just let you handle all of that if it comes up?

I'd have to review the contract to be sure of the details, and I'm not sure it's really my place to talk about a publisher's business and legal practices. As I've already said, if you really want to know more about this, you shouldn't ask me, you should do some research of your own and find more reliable sources. I know that we have to avoid unsolicited story ideas like the plague, but that doesn't make me an expert on the whys and wherefores of it.

Perhaps it could just be a editorial dictate that each book try to explore a member world even if in a subplot. Watching the Clock really isn't a book about Delta, but I felt it really explored the Deltans more than I've seen elsewhere.

That would be a terrible idea. Compulsory creativity? The results wouldn't be satisfying or worthwhile. A story works if the writer is inspired to tell it, if it's something they really want to explore. Forcing every writer to include some obligatory element in everything they write would be unfairly restrictive to them and would result in inferior work. And it would make the line boring and formulaic. The strength of Trek Lit in the past decade or so has been its diversity.

I explored the Deltans in Watching the Clock because it's something I've always yearned to do. If I'd been ordered to do it and hadn't been inspired, the results would've been much weaker.

5. Publish Slings & Arrows in TPB.

That'll happen eventually, after the remaining Corps of Engineers installments are collected.

 

[Rush Limborg]

^But isn't the basic direction of TrekLit decided by the editors--the whole Borg invasion, the Typhon Pact arc, the DS9 Relaunch and all that? Wasn't PAD told to kill off Janeway, or something?

 

[Deranged Nasat]

4. I'd love to see a an ongoing series where each book explores in detail each one of the Federation's members....I really want to know what makes many of the member worlds tick. What is it that got them in to the Federation? How are they so different but able to take part in the Federation? I've recently felt the simple "neat factor" of the Federation has been really underplayed lately. Being a member world should be a big deal.

I really like this, and I agree that Federation member worlds need a bit more individual focus. We've had some great stories set on member worlds that explore their internal politics and relationship to the wider Federation - Paradigm and Paths of Disharmony for Andor, Unjoined for Trill, Balance of Nature for Nasat, 10 is Better than 01 for Bynaus. There are so many other worlds that could be explored, especially now that many Federation member races have been filled out just enough to make them interesting and unique but haven't yet carried entire stories.

The Efrosians in Titan, the Deltans in Watching the Clock, the Tiburon in Unspoken Truth, Alpha Centauri, the Caitians, the Tellarites; we know enough about these people now to make them more than just "filler" cultures, but they're still not fully fleshed out.

And why stop there? Let's go to Grazer, to Benzar, to Sauria, to Bolarus IX, to Kazar. Probably be a hard sell, but I want to see them.

And someone take us to Denobula, already! I have some personal ideas on the Denobulans and I'd love to see if the authors come to similar conclusions.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'd like to see a novelization of the original script that eventually became DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations". AFAIK, David Gerrold wrote it...

Spoiler: story

It was a "Piece of the Action" sequel featuring TNG. Picard and crew visit Iotia and see that it has turned into a 'Starfleet planet' styled after the TOS era! Everyone wears TOS Starfleet uniforms, communications are on Starfleet frequencies, etc. Picard and crew are put on trial for being "Anti-Kirk".

 

[Sxottlan]

I really like this, and I agree that Federation member worlds need a bit more individual focus.

And Book 1 would start with the Xindi.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I'd like to see a novelization of the original script that eventually became DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations". AFAIK, David Gerrold wrote it...

Spoiler: story

It was a "Piece of the Action" sequel featuring TNG. Picard and crew visit Iotia and see that it has turned into a 'Starfleet planet' styled after the TOS era! Everyone wears TOS Starfleet uniforms, communications are on Starfleet frequencies, etc. Picard and crew are put on trial for being "Anti-Kirk".

TNG was off the air for two years when they did that 30th anniversary episode. And I don't believe that David Gerrold had anything to do with the story concept of a return to Iotia. It was generated by the regular DS9 staff writers. Considering the time contraints, they were unlikely to call in an outside writer for such a high-profile episode.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I really like this, and I agree that Federation member worlds need a bit more individual focus.

And Book 1 would start with the Xindi.

 

[Reanok]

I'd like to see Miles'O Brien featured in another novel it's been a long time since he was featured in a novel. I agree about wanting to see the Ascendents storyline finally being mentioned in another ds9 novel please.