Decker.....I want this....

[Borjis]

"as much as you want the Enterprise...."I" Want this..."

Was just catching TMP on sci-fi tonight and remembered when I first saw it on cable way back in the day.

as a kid I was THRILLED to hear these words!

Was anyone else rooting for Decker to go away in full agreement with him?

I found him annoying and how dare he "compete" with our captain kirk!

of course now as an adult....and a little wiser, I actually like Decker now. heh heh

 

[Maurice]

My problem with that line is it feels unmotivated. Decker shows no great curiosity or interest in V'ger. Is it all Ilia and saving the Earth? Cause it the decision doesn't seem to stem from his behavior as seen prior to that moment.

 

[Gepard]

That line and final sacrifice would have been much better given to Spock. He's the one who had the character arc mirroring V'Ger's own journey and it would have placed him firmly on the side of embracing a blend of logic and emotion, which was where the film seemed to want him to go anyway. It's just a shame we couldn't have had Spock die twice.

 

[Pauln6]

I always thought that Decker and Ilia had a lot of potential as characters. I'm not sure that much of it was realised with the Riker/Troi dynamic but that might be because I find Ilia to be far more interesting than Troi. I'm writing a story on Youtube where Decker, Ilia, and the crew of Epsilon Nine are all restored to normal space 6 months after the V'ger incident with no memories of what may have happened in between. I thought it would be a good way to re-examine the characters' motivations while adding a twist. I can go back and ask, 'Why did Decker decide to merge with V'ger?' It could have been as simple as a chance to be with Ilia in a way that a human could never be with a deltan. It might have had as much to do with the chance to explore the truly unknown. It certainly wasn't just because he wanted to save the Earth. I thought that if the characters can't remember then they can actually question their motives themselves, including nagging doubts about whether they are 'real' or just copies returned by V'ger for some unknown purpose.

 

[sonak]

yeah, unless it's because of Ilia, the line doesn't make much sense

 

[Ssosmcin]

He should have said that line the second her saw the probe in that skimpy little robe.

 

[SchwEnt]

Yeah you gotta think about what the "this" is in Decker's declaration. Particularly since three days ago, he didn't even know about V'ger.

So what is this "this" thing?
Being the man to save Earth?
Giving his life in the line of duty like his father?
Rejoining with Ilia forever?
Evolving into a higher lifeform?
Learning the ultimate knowledge that V'ger acquired?
Boldly going where no man has gone before?

 

[Maurice]

I don't have a problem with that an officer would sacrifice himself to save Earth. It's the "I want this" that isn't clearly motivated.

 

[iguana_tonante]

yeah, unless it's because of Ilia, the line doesn't make much sense

Yeah you gotta think about what the "this" is in Decker's declaration. Particularly since three days ago, he didn't even know about V'ger.

So what is this "this" thing?
Being the man to save Earth?
Giving his life in the line of duty like his father?
Rejoining with Ilia forever?
Evolving into a higher lifeform?
Learning the ultimate knowledge that V'ger acquired?
Boldly going where no man has gone before?

It was pretty clear to me that "this" was being with Ilia, no matter the cost. V'ger Shm'ger, Earth Shmearth. It's all about the girl.

 

[Christopher]

My problem with that line is it feels unmotivated. Decker shows no great curiosity or interest in V'ger. Is it all Ilia and saving the Earth? Cause it the decision doesn't seem to stem from his behavior as seen prior to that moment.

The intent was that Decker had a spiritual side, that he was involved in the "New Human" movement and was intrigued by the potential of humanity to evolve to a new level. What V'Ger offered was meant to be the culmination of his life's quest. But none of it ended up getting onscreen, so he doesn't seem to have any motivation beyond being with Ilia.

 

[Captrek]

I too have wondered what was going through Decker’s mind at that moment. I’ve come up with a couple of explanations I like.


Long explanation:

On Delta IV, Decker has a choice. Stay on Delta IV with the woman he loves? Or leave her for his Starfleet career to become a starship commander and a hero? He chooses the latter, but it’s a very difficult decision. It’s so difficult that he later suggests he wouldn’t have been able to do it if he had seen Ilia one more time to say goodbye.

He gets his command and his first mission is a biggie. All of Earth is at stake. This is exactly the kind of thing for which he left Ilia. He lives for it.

Then Kirk comes along, pushes Decker aside, and takes command of the mission.

Throughout the mission, Decker urges caution and restraint, while Kirk channels Farragut: “Damn the torpedos! Full speed ahead!”

By the time they come face to face with the Voyager probe, Decker realizes that Kirk took the right approach for this mission and that’s what has brought them to this point with a chance to succeed. If Decker had been in command of the mission, Earth would have been doomed. Taking his command away saved the planet.

This has all happened very quickly and Decker hasn’t had a chance to integrate the experience and deal with the emotional consequences. At this moment he sees himself as the “bad” captain who would have doomed the planet. He fears that others will see him the same way. Assuming they survive the mission, he can’t see himself commanding a starship with confidence.

There is an alternative. He can adopt Kirk’s “Damn the torpedos” approach (which, ironically, is something that appears to frighten Kirk in this instance). He can out-Kirk Kirk, take a bold leap into the unknown, and be the savior of Earth instead of the captain who would have doomed it. He may also be reunited with Ilia, although he can’t imagine what form this reunion will take.

At this moment, he sees it as a much more attractive option than trying to go on as a starship commander. If he chooses not to do it, he’ll be behaving in the same cautious and restrained manner that he’s feeling so bad about right now. So he goes for it.​

Short explanation:

It has to be done. If it’s not Decker, then it will have to be Kirk, Spock, or McCoy. He nobly chooses to take the responsibility on himself. His statement, “As much as you wanted the Enterprise, I want this,” is meant to reassure Kirk, and may not be true. As last words go, it’s more poetic than “This scares the hell out of me, but somebody has to do it.”​

 

[Expo67]

That line and final sacrifice would have been much better given to Spock. He's the one who had the character arc mirroring V'Ger's own journey and it would have placed him firmly on the side of embracing a blend of logic and emotion, which was where the film seemed to want him to go anyway. It's just a shame we couldn't have had Spock die twice.

I would rather NOT have had Spock die at all. Especially near the end of TWOK. But, that point is moot.

Willard Decker made the noble decision, and when you think about it, captrek's view definately hits the proverbial nail on the head. In some ways, Will's sacrifice almost mirrors the sacrifice that his father had made in The Doomsday Machine. The only difference is that his father had unfortunately suffered a mental breakdown. Will did not.

Stephen Collins pointed out in an interview that Will Decker was a 'starry-eyed spiritualist'.

And as Christopher stated in his earlier post, "the intent was that Decker had a spiritual side, that he was involved in the "New Human" movement and was intrigued by the potential of humanity to evolve to a new level. What V'Ger offered was meant to be the culmination of his life's quest."

Even in Ex Machina, that element of spiritualism to Decker's personality was hinted at.

Will Decker was the right person who made the right choice, regardless of the reasons and motivations involved.

And hopefully, his example will be the next step...or to be more precise...the right direction that humanity will take in it's evolutionary process.

Something good and pure.

 

[Christopher]

^If you're going to quote someone else verbatim as you did with my words, please put it in quotation marks or a quote box. Otherwise you're misrepresenting it as your own words, and that's inappropriate.

 

[Expo67]

^If you're going to quote someone else verbatim as you did with my words, please put it in quotation marks or a quote box. Otherwise you're misrepresenting it as your own words, and that's inappropriate.

Sorry about that. That was an error on my part.

 

[Qued]

^If you're going to quote someone else verbatim as you did with my words, please put it in quotation marks or a quote box. Otherwise you're misrepresenting it as your own words, and that's inappropriate.

Really? Wow, couldn't this been better off sent as a PM? Freaking forum police. geez.

 

[Warped9]

I too have wondered what was going through Decker’s mind at that moment. I’ve come up with a couple of explanations I like.


Long explanation:

.... .... .... .... .... .... .... ....


Short explanation:

....

Either works.

 

[Christopher]

^If you're going to quote someone else verbatim as you did with my words, please put it in quotation marks or a quote box. Otherwise you're misrepresenting it as your own words, and that's inappropriate.

Sorry about that. That was an error on my part.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

 

[Expo67]

^If you're going to quote someone else verbatim as you did with my words, please put it in quotation marks or a quote box. Otherwise you're misrepresenting it as your own words, and that's inappropriate.

Sorry about that. That was an error on my part.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

Not a problem.

While I'm thinking about, I do have some questions concerning the background characters of Ex Machina(i.e. certain crewmembers of the Enterprise), as well as the subplot concerning McCoy and Natira.

1. Where did you come up with the names for such characters as Edward Logan, Gerry Auberson, Reiko Onami, and various others? Are these character names in tribute to people that you know? Are these characters whose names are(or were)mentioned in the screenplay to Star Trek - The Motion Picture?

2. Were you aware that there was a brief mention of McCoy and Natira reuniting in the 1989 Star Trek novel The Lost Years, and the circumstances of that reunion were somewhat different than what was in Ex Machina?

 

[Christopher]

1. Where did you come up with the names for such characters as Edward Logan, Gerry Auberson, Reiko Onami, and various others? Are these character names in tribute to people that you know? Are these characters whose names are(or were)mentioned in the screenplay to Star Trek - The Motion Picture?

Various sources. Edward Logan was a reference to a friend of mine who was a fan of Wolverine and thus was partial to "Logan" as a potential pseudonym. Gerrold Auberson is my name for the crewmember "played" by David Gerrold in the rec-deck scene; David Auberson was the name of the main (author-surrogate) character from Gerrold's novel When HARLIE Was One. And I took Onami's name from a couple of characters in unsold fiction I'd written in the past. In those characters' cases, I just found the names in books and liked the sound of them (which is generally how I come up with non-Western character names).

2. Were you aware that there was a brief mention of McCoy and Natira reuniting in the 1989 Star Trek novel The Lost Years, and the circumstances of that reunion were somewhat different than what was in Ex Machina?

A lot about The Lost Years is incompatible with Ex Machina. A lot of its assumptions (and that of the broader 1980s novel continuity it was tied into) had been contradicted by TNG, so I didn't feel bound by it. Anyway, I think both J. M. Dillard and I were drawing on the passing reference in Roddenberry's TMP novelization to McCoy studying Fabrini medicine following his resignation from Starfleet.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

It was pretty clear to me that "this" was being with Ilia, no matter the cost. V'ger Shm'ger, Earth Shmearth. It's all about the girl.

Exactly. The four heroes of TMP are all running from what they know they need: Kirk from the Enterprise, Spock from Kirk (and his own humanity), Vejur (very much a hero of TMP if not the hero) from acknowledging and embracing the illogical, inferior carbon units who created it, and Decker from Ilia. At the end, all four are where and what they need to be.