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It had to be before The Impossible Astronaut. Amy told the Doctor she was pregnant in that episode. She knew subconsciously that she was, which is why she blurted it out instead of telling him about his eventual fate. Also remember she felt sick during the first episode which occurs roughly 6 weeks into pregnancy.
I'm pretty sure though that she was abducted after her wedding though, so it must have happened between seasons.
The more I think about it, the more the Doctor's actions at the very end of this episode piss me off.
They spend two episodes trying to convince prejudiced humans (and by extension, the audience) that the "gangers" are functionally real human beings with the right to life and freedom - regardless of whether or not there's a human plugged into them controlling them.
So what does the Doctor do? He frigging LIQUIFIES ganger-Amy. Without even telling her of his suspiscions beforehand or trying to help her to come to terms with it.
Nevermind that her ganger may have been capable of independent thought and action and might have wanted to live.
Nevermind that keeping the ganger alive might have been a way to trace back the psychic link between it and the real Amy.
Nevermind that killing the ganger opened Amy up to the absolute horror of imprisonment in a tiny chamber, suddenly pregnant and in labor with the implication that she has been raped (forced pregnancy on an unwilling or unknowing host is still rape, regardless of the method).
For once in my life I'm sad to say that I don't like the Doctor at all, and wouldn't ever consider travelling with him.
Yes, Amy must have been switched before the season even started. The first appearance of Eye Patch Lady ("Don't worry, I think she's just dreaming") was in the orphanage, before Amy was supposedly kidnapped by the Silence. So that kidnapping wasn't when she was switched.
Which leads to the question of, did the Silence know they were kidnapping the fake Amy? Them telling her, "We honour you, you will bring the Silence" kinda suggests they do know what's going on with the real Amy, so why bother kidnapping the fake Amy if they've already got the real one? That's assuming that it is the Silence who have the real Amy, of course, which isn't confirmed. And I have not ready any spoilers, so I genuinely don't know.
Anyway, episode was so-so. Boyfriend wandered away to make tea in the middle cause he didn't care anymore, but I stuck with it. And aside from the brief appearance of The Arc, it basically boils down to little more than some good old fashioned running up and down corridors. But well presented running.
ETA: Ah, I just read LoneMagpie's "Arc speculation about..." thread, and yes, you basically say everything I've just said there, so... yeah.
Maybe, but one presumes that the TARDIS has analyzed the link already or that it can simply locate former crewmembers. The question remains as to why the Doctor terminated the link in the first place, though.
Nevermind that killing the ganger opened Amy up to the absolute horror of imprisonment in a tiny chamber, suddenly pregnant and in labor with the implication that she has been raped (forced pregnancy on an unwilling or unknowing host is still rape, regardless of the method).
.
Funny, that's what the humans in the last two episodes said about gangers. "They're just flesh!" The episodes tried to convince us otherwise, remember? You can't just create a compelling argument (in this case with the goal of making the audience think and question the concept of identity) - and then contradict it at the very end because it suits the plot.
Maybe, but one presumes that the TARDIS has analyzed the link already or that it can simply locate former crewmembers. The question remains as to why the Doctor terminated the link in the first place, though.
One should not presume that at all. One should presume nothing that is not revealed on the screen, or one is apt to look foolish when evidence contradicts the presumption.
For instance, the Doctor said something to the effect of "I promise we'll find you!". He didn't say "We can figure out where you are and be there before teatime!".
That's an awfully big assumption to make, based on the circumstantial evidence that Amy and Rory have had sex sometime in the past. I look at it this way: Amy is imprisoned by some organization that is using her as a breeding vessel for a child that they need for a purpose. If it was just another baby, they could have taken it from anywhere.
It's far more likely that they engineered this child to make it more useful in achieving their goal, rather than it being simply the offspring of Amy and Rory. Which is strong evidence for enforced pregnancy. If it is indeed the same child that regenerates in "Day of the Moon" then there's a strong case for it having the Doctor's DNA. If this is correct, then it logically follows that the pregnancy is a product of forced artificial insemination.
I'm glad I didn't wait a week for this to air properly. I think this is going to go down in history for BBC America and Space as the worst timing imaginable. Will anyone be able to avoid spoilers after THAT ending?
Nevermind that killing the ganger opened Amy up to the absolute horror of imprisonment in a tiny chamber, suddenly pregnant and in labor with the implication that she has been raped (forced pregnancy on an unwilling or unknowing host is still rape, regardless of the method).
Calm down and take a valium. Aside from most of what you were talking about being questions that will probably be answered in a later episode, this last point I think was over the top. Exactly where does it imply that she was raped? The only thing in this episode that is established is Amy's mind has spent the last umpteen months having adventures with the Doctor and now it's suddenly popped back into the original body (putting paid to any concerns about the Doctor "killing" Ganger Amy - it means she wasn't the same as the other Gangers because the TARDIS solidified them, so he would not have been able to do that with Amy if she was a full Ganger. Think about it.) and suddenly she's preggers. That could easily be the Doctor's or Rory's baby. Let's wait till the show actually, you know, finishes the story before we pass judgements.
The more I think about it, the more the Doctor's actions at the very end of this episode piss me off.
They spend two episodes trying to convince prejudiced humans (and by extension, the audience) that the "gangers" are functionally real human beings with the right to life and freedom - regardless of whether or not there's a human plugged into them controlling them.
So what does the Doctor do? He frigging LIQUIFIES ganger-Amy. Without even telling her of his suspiscions beforehand or trying to help her to come to terms with it.
Nevermind that her ganger may have been capable of independent thought and action and might have wanted to live.
The only thing in this episode that is established is Amy's mind has spent the last umpteen months having adventures with the Doctor and now it's suddenly popped back into the original bodyand suddenly she's preggers.
"Preggers" and trapped in a tiny claustrophobic chamber with a mad one-eyed woman staring at her periodically through a tiny window. It's pretty ridiculous that you completely glossed over that part. The Doctor just dumped Amy into that heap of nightmare fuel, which was my original point. Do you disagree that it's an incredibly nasty thing to do? (I'll explain below why I also think rape is involved.)
(putting paid to any concerns about the Doctor "killing" Ganger Amy - it means she wasn't the same as the other Gangers because the TARDIS solidified them, so he would not have been able to do that with Amy if she was a full Ganger. Think about it.)
Amy was present during the electrical storm that gave the other gangers independent life. The Doctor's own ganger also had independent life and his sonic screwdriver liquified him too. Think about it. Or did you miss that part?
If it's Rory's baby, fine. But the Doctor never had sex with Amy. He made a point not to when she offered herself to him. He'd never do that to Rory.So if it's the Doctor's baby, it means Amy was artifically inseminated without her knowledge or consent and forced to carry it to term, which is a violation and can fall under the definition of rape. The fact that the Doctor just threw her back into her real body and into that situation makes it horrible.
Now that we know we've been with ganger-Amy for who knows how long, I wonder if that's why Sexy contacted Rory instead of Amy. I know The Doctor said the pretty one and more than likely, it was just a little bit humor. But still, I have to believe that the TARDIS knew what Amy really was.
As the Doctor is going to die in the future, we get a copy of him that, instead of somehow resolving his death, is used to give Amy false hope, make her all emotional, come out with a pledge to his copy (seeing it as her chance to save him), and just bait Amy to tell the Doctor what she should not tell him, because the Doctors tricked her. I loved that.
Oh, and that ending. Probably one of the best scenes in the show I've seen. Seeing Amy wake up in that cold, unpleasant far-away place locked up away from everything was really brutal. And the way the Doctor hinted what is going on just about enough for her to realize it, I almost visualised what she was feeling right before waking up there. Gave it Geronimo just for the ending.
It seems that the ark will be resolved properly, I always felt uneasy about the eye-patch lady and the pregnancy, but not any more, I guess this ark will be concluded with the next episode?
If the info on IMDB is correct, we'll be seeing the Silence again, so are definitely involved in her pregnancy. Also River is there, and the episode is called "A Good Man Goes to War", and this speaks for itself -- there's a big chance that the "good man" part will be also resolved here.
So, after the Doctor broke the link, she gives birth, she is locked up in that room we saw in Day of the Moon, she cares for her child there... I find it disturbing that there are pictures of the child growing up, so that would make at least 5-6 years which is way too brutal for Doctor Who (and Amy already waited enough in The Eleventh Hour), so I find it unlikely to be what happens...
What I can't figure out where Amy got kidnapped. I want it to be somewhere in the first to episodes (everything would make more sense that way), like right before she went into the room of her daughter, but everything points out that she was kidnapped before the episode began. Still, it could be the second time she saw a Silent.
The more I think about it, the more the Doctor's actions at the very end of this episode piss me off.
They spend two episodes trying to convince prejudiced humans (and by extension, the audience) that the "gangers" are functionally real human beings with the right to life and freedom - regardless of whether or not there's a human plugged into them controlling them.
So what does the Doctor do? He frigging LIQUIFIES ganger-Amy. Without even telling her of his suspiscions beforehand or trying to help her to come to terms with it.
Nevermind that her ganger may have been capable of independent thought and action and might have wanted to live.
Nevermind that keeping the ganger alive might have been a way to trace back the psychic link between it and the real Amy.
Nevermind that killing the ganger opened Amy up to the absolute horror of imprisonment in a tiny chamber, suddenly pregnant and in labor with the implication that she has been raped (forced pregnancy on an unwilling or unknowing host is still rape, regardless of the method).
For once in my life I'm sad to say that I don't like the Doctor at all, and wouldn't ever consider travelling with him.
Yeah, this troubles me too. He's all "ooh, life is sacred", then it's wham, goodbye fake Amy. Matter of fact I've been finding her character a bit off all season. Maybe this is why.
A lot of good stuff here, better than part 1, but its disappointing that the strongest aspect of last weeks ep is the weakest here, as Rory goes from strong protagonist with a plot that reflects nicely with his previously plastic self (though I suppose with comments I'm hearing from the confidentials, that was never a goal) to moronically clueless dolt. Although I did find it funny when someone else pointed out that every character (whether original or duplicate) died in this episode, apart from Rory.
It was nice that Amy got more to do here as well, and her arc with the two Doctors was heartbreaking at points. It'll be interesting to go back and watch knowing that they're playing different versions of themselves.
Another reason I'll definitely need to rewatch this ep is for the cliffhanger reveal as it felt a bit weird first time through having been spoiled by all the specualtion. . In any event, I'm glad that a two parter that started off so similar in tone to the Silurian eps ended up so much better in the second half, even if not quite perfect.
Figures. The series finally starts getting interesting and its about to go on break for the summer.
Thank goodness I don't have to rely on BBCA for my episodes. I'd be going nuts right about now.
I admit I was a bit bothered by the Doctor summarily executing the Amy-ganger after everythign he said back at the refinery. But after thinking about it I think I can see the difference. Despite being copies, the crew gangers had been mutated by the solar storm accident to have minds and emotions of their own. While the Amy ganger was still one of the original type, just a lump of material being remotely piloted by the real Amy.
At least I hope so.
I did rather liked that apart from the one fanatical (Jennifer?) ganger, there were really no good guys or bad in this story. Even the hard-assed commander came around at the end.
The only bit that elicited a little bit of a was the Doctors magic solutions at the end. "Da-dah, you're human now! Oh, and I just happen to have a cure form brain clots right here under the console. Oh, and have a balloon."
The more I think about it, the more the Doctor's actions at the very end of this episode piss me off.
They spend two episodes trying to convince prejudiced humans (and by extension, the audience) that the "gangers" are functionally real human beings with the right to life and freedom - regardless of whether or not there's a human plugged into them controlling them.
So what does the Doctor do? He frigging LIQUIFIES ganger-Amy. Without even telling her of his suspiscions beforehand or trying to help her to come to terms with it.
Nevermind that her ganger may have been capable of independent thought and action and might have wanted to live.
Nevermind that keeping the ganger alive might have been a way to trace back the psychic link between it and the real Amy.
Nevermind that killing the ganger opened Amy up to the absolute horror of imprisonment in a tiny chamber, suddenly pregnant and in labor with the implication that she has been raped (forced pregnancy on an unwilling or unknowing host is still rape, regardless of the method).
For once in my life I'm sad to say that I don't like the Doctor at all, and wouldn't ever consider travelling with him.
Yeah, this troubles me too. He's all "ooh, life is sacred", then it's wham, goodbye fake Amy. Matter of fact I've been finding her character a bit off all season. Maybe this is why.
Well, the Moff said the Doctor was going to a dark place and he's sure keeping his word. I suppose Amy's kidnapping could have happened any time they were on the run between the first ans second episode. I would like that answered. Liquifying the ganger was a shock in the wake of the episode's point about gangers and humanity, but the Doctor seemed to count cutting that connection more important. It does remove a way for those holding Amy to keep an eye on him and the TARDIS, but so would have leaving her at a fish and chip shop in Leadworth. There is a lot to answer ahead. I enjoyed this more than last week's episode. It was much better paced, less running about halls and more characterization.
Yeah, sadly no new episode for those of us in the US (or Canada). Instead of watching the show like I normally would, I'm going to spend my Saturday walking along a stream.
Yes, a stroll around a quarry would invoke many a great DW memory, but nothing beats a live stream.
As for the episode itself, I thought it was much better than Part 1. Although last week's episode set the bar pretty damn low. I doubt the two-parter will go down as a classic, but it was enjoyable enough. I gave it a Fish sticks and Custard.
One thing that annoyed me, why couldn't the Doctor pilot the Tardis across the room (closer to the door) to save what's her face and plastic doc?
Figures. The series finally starts getting interesting and its about to go on break for the summer.
I admit I was a bit bothered by the Doctor summarily executing the Amy-ganger after everythign he said back at the refinery. But after thinking about it I think I can see the difference. The crew gangers despite being copies, still had thoughts and opinions of their own. While the Amy ganger was apparently simply channelling the real Amy and didn't have any real personality of its own.
And as I saw it pointed out, the Doctor was only cancelling the signal connecting Amy to her ganger, not actually disintegrating the Flesh like Flesh!Doctor did to monster!Jennifer (and as a by-product, himself and Flesh!Cleaves).
Although I do agree with some others that it seemed kind of callous to drop Amy into that absolute nightmare with barely a warning. I'm going to reserve judgement on that (next week and autumn can't come soon enough).
Because then Moffat would have to figure out what to do with a throwaway gimmick that he added to make the episode more interesting. Why do you think he morphed the crazy woman ganger into a monster of the week when one wasn't necessary in a great episode about identity and the human condition?
And as I saw it pointed out, the Doctor was only cancelling the signal connecting Amy to her ganger, not actually disintegrating the Flesh like Flesh!Doctor did to monster!Jennifer (and as a by-product, himself and Flesh!Cleaves).
You know it wouldn't bother me if the two episodes hadn't been spent convincing us that gangers are real people that are being spontaneously created and controlled, and are more than just animated flesh.
. In any event, I'm glad that a two parter that started off so similar in tone to the Silurian eps ended up so much better in the second half, even if not quite perfect.
was the Doctors magic solutions at the end. "Da-dah, you're human now! Oh, and I just happen to have a cure form brain clots right here under the console. Oh, and have a balloon."
