But the Eve plot and all the stuff early in the season feels like a waste since it was for misdirection. Go back and watch those episodes and knowing the answer to the mystery of the Campbells, the monster alphas etc just make those episodes seem even more inexcusable since most weren't interestiing in their own right and the only hope they had was to play interestingly into the bigger picture. We didn't even get to see Purgatory.
Supernatural 6x21 &6x22 Two hour season finale tonight
- Thread starter Dorian Thompson
- Start date
I never thought they would actually show purgatory. Personally, I was all for the misdirection because I hate figuring out how a story is going to end before it happens. Finding the alpha's wasn't pointless...at the time nobody knew how to get to purgatory and Crowley's guess that the alpha's would know was as good as any. I enjoyed this season because I like unraveling mysteries and plot twists with the characters as opposed to knowing what will happen before they do.
I feel the same way--I avoid spoilers and trailers so I don't know what's next on a show however there is a good way to shake up expectations and a bad way. In my opinion SN S6's was the latter. LOST S4 or S5 or S1 Heroes demonstrated how to do it expertly.
After pondering Cas's ultimate face heel turn tonight, I can't help but feel this mess is at least a little bit Dean's fault.
Dean has treated Cas like crap. This is true to Dean's character, tragically. Dean has a strong moral compass when the fire is in him. But he thinks small. He's a mechanic in a universe of celestial engineers. He can't take seriously concepts such as "Cas says there is a war in Heaven."
A war in heaven.
So, Dean, in a desperate attempt to remain grounded, has committed the same error that Sam did when Sam didn't listen to Dean about going in with a demon. Here, Dean didn't listen to his "brother": Castiel. That's the twist - Dean thought that the situation was simple and clear-cut. Cas was the one not listening to him, he thought. Instead, the shoe was on the other foot. Dean treated Cas trivially for a year, to the point that the brothers' relationship with Cas was literally the laughing stock of the heavens.
Cas desperately tried to hold on, having been made human by his time with the brothers, but in the end, Dean just ranted at Cas like an angry father. And when he saw what Cas had done out of sheer desperation, Dean hypocritically disowned him. After so many times Dean or Sam have dealt with demons - after Bobby dealt with demons.
Dean is a good man, but a very small man. Had he reached out to Cas, there may have been a slim hope that a shred of humanity may have pulled Cas back from the brink. Instead, the first thing Cas says when evaluating his position is that "you didn't believe in me" to Dean.
Eating that much power was destined as we see now to warp Castiel's self perception. Dean sure as hell didn't help the situation.
Dean has treated Cas like crap. This is true to Dean's character, tragically. Dean has a strong moral compass when the fire is in him. But he thinks small. He's a mechanic in a universe of celestial engineers. He can't take seriously concepts such as "Cas says there is a war in Heaven."
A war in heaven.
So, Dean, in a desperate attempt to remain grounded, has committed the same error that Sam did when Sam didn't listen to Dean about going in with a demon. Here, Dean didn't listen to his "brother": Castiel. That's the twist - Dean thought that the situation was simple and clear-cut. Cas was the one not listening to him, he thought. Instead, the shoe was on the other foot. Dean treated Cas trivially for a year, to the point that the brothers' relationship with Cas was literally the laughing stock of the heavens.
Cas desperately tried to hold on, having been made human by his time with the brothers, but in the end, Dean just ranted at Cas like an angry father. And when he saw what Cas had done out of sheer desperation, Dean hypocritically disowned him. After so many times Dean or Sam have dealt with demons - after Bobby dealt with demons.
Dean is a good man, but a very small man. Had he reached out to Cas, there may have been a slim hope that a shred of humanity may have pulled Cas back from the brink. Instead, the first thing Cas says when evaluating his position is that "you didn't believe in me" to Dean.
Eating that much power was destined as we see now to warp Castiel's self perception. Dean sure as hell didn't help the situation.
Yes at this point that's true. But Dean has asked over the season to help Castiel, has asked to know what was going on and what was happening. At each point Castiel has avoided him and his assistance (and Sam as well).
Another major difference, with Sam, while he did work with a demon, this demon (to the best of anyone's knowledge) never did anything evil or harmful. Nor did Sam, his actions were actually helping not causing any immediate harm. So the harm being caused was scene just as to Sam's soul. Even Dean thought Lilith dying would be a good thing.
Castiel has been apart or connecting to harm already being done.
By the time Dean learns the truth, both have nearly been killed by his partner, others have been killed by monsters having to mobilize, Eve was released to stop the attacks and she caused loss of life.
Castiel and his partner had already caused direct and indirect damage.
I mean with Sam he tried to talk down someone going through withdraws on a high (instead of a rational detoxed Sam) thanks to Castiel.
Castiel is and has been in control of his facilities.
Another major difference, with Sam, while he did work with a demon, this demon (to the best of anyone's knowledge) never did anything evil or harmful. Nor did Sam, his actions were actually helping not causing any immediate harm. So the harm being caused was scene just as to Sam's soul. Even Dean thought Lilith dying would be a good thing.
Castiel has been apart or connecting to harm already being done.
By the time Dean learns the truth, both have nearly been killed by his partner, others have been killed by monsters having to mobilize, Eve was released to stop the attacks and she caused loss of life.
Castiel and his partner had already caused direct and indirect damage.
I mean with Sam he tried to talk down someone going through withdraws on a high (instead of a rational detoxed Sam) thanks to Castiel.
Castiel is and has been in control of his facilities.
I haven't read a single word from this topic, avoiding SPOILERS.
But my station preempted the two hour finale for Baseball! The show doesn't come on until 10 PM.
FUCKING BASEBALL! BASEBALL SUCKS!
Sorry... I had to vent.
Looking forward to this finale.....
Dream where do you live. We already know Chicago isn't getting the episode at all tonight, be curious where you are.
Wow, I mean Wow. I am still a bit in shock. I have always prefered the stand alone episodes of Supernatual but deal lord THAT IS HOW YOU DO A CLIFF HANGER!!!!!
Sorry for yelling. I got a little carried away. But yeah wow. That was amazing
Sorry for yelling. I got a little carried away. But yeah wow. That was amazing
I'm guessing I'm in the minority here, but I didn't really like it compared to past finales.
Felt a bit lackluster, hell the whole season felt like it was just going thru the motions, eventually ending up here. But I'll chalk that up to the show getting another season, so the gameplan might have changed a little. Cas as the new big bad is the only redeeming bit of it though. Overall probably my least favorite season so far.
Felt a bit lackluster, hell the whole season felt like it was just going thru the motions, eventually ending up here. But I'll chalk that up to the show getting another season, so the gameplan might have changed a little. Cas as the new big bad is the only redeeming bit of it though. Overall probably my least favorite season so far.
While it is true that Castiel and Sam's past situations are not perfect analogies, I think the core point rests in this: by now, Dean should have known enough to be able to understand when someone is backed into a hopeless corner and makes a bad decision - even if it results in real damage.
By the end, both Sam and Dean together are responsible for releasing Lucifer, after all, and all kinds of crap went down because of that. They both have to live with that.
Sam and Dean making some attempts to offer assistance to Cas doesn't seem much different than either Sam or Dean offering to help one another when there's trouble brewing, only for one to push the other way for a while. Again, Dean should have had much experience with this and been wiser.
For his part, Cas' real mistake wasn't in a desperate alliance - everyone in Supernatural has played that card - but in being caught off guard repeatedly by Crowely abusing the terms of their deal and committing atrocities that Cas wouldn't have approved of. "Crowley went too far" was the repeated mantra. This demonstrated an in-character blind spot Cas has: he was being written correctly as the angel whose point of view was actually too large for its own good. He was so certain he could control Crowely in the end because "he was still an angel and Crowely just a demon" that he didn't see the significance of how Crowely would (and did) run wild up until the bitter end when Castiel pulled his plug.
In a sense, the whole situation is an authentic tragedy by classical terms. The impasse was destined to happen due to everyone's efforts being undermined by their own nature, against their own best intentions.
Cas didn't come clean with the brothers or propose his plan openly because he thought he could control Crowley and was distracted by too many things his position required.
Dean's own hypocrisy wouldn't allow him to see around his outrage when he found out about all this late in the game.
So, as seems to be the case with a Supernatural clusterf**k, everybody goes "my bad" after the crap's already gone down and the world is ending. Again
By the end, both Sam and Dean together are responsible for releasing Lucifer, after all, and all kinds of crap went down because of that. They both have to live with that.
Sam and Dean making some attempts to offer assistance to Cas doesn't seem much different than either Sam or Dean offering to help one another when there's trouble brewing, only for one to push the other way for a while. Again, Dean should have had much experience with this and been wiser.
For his part, Cas' real mistake wasn't in a desperate alliance - everyone in Supernatural has played that card - but in being caught off guard repeatedly by Crowely abusing the terms of their deal and committing atrocities that Cas wouldn't have approved of. "Crowley went too far" was the repeated mantra. This demonstrated an in-character blind spot Cas has: he was being written correctly as the angel whose point of view was actually too large for its own good. He was so certain he could control Crowely in the end because "he was still an angel and Crowely just a demon" that he didn't see the significance of how Crowely would (and did) run wild up until the bitter end when Castiel pulled his plug.
In a sense, the whole situation is an authentic tragedy by classical terms. The impasse was destined to happen due to everyone's efforts being undermined by their own nature, against their own best intentions.
Cas didn't come clean with the brothers or propose his plan openly because he thought he could control Crowley and was distracted by too many things his position required.
Dean's own hypocrisy wouldn't allow him to see around his outrage when he found out about all this late in the game.
So, as seems to be the case with a Supernatural clusterf**k, everybody goes "my bad" after the crap's already gone down and the world is ending. Again
My favorite seasons: 4(best plotted, best serialized, most consistent), 1(best season at telling solid standalones consistently, loved Missouri, John, the innocence of the two guys just simply hunting monsters, loved Meg and the YED mystery), 2(show started ignoring the supernatural plots of the week acting as if they were a burden, the character stuff was good)
My least favorite seasons: 6, 3--these were the two seasons that had far more episodes I didn't like than I liked and really not interested in rewatching.
S5 comes smack in the middle. I just rewatched it again on TNT the last two weeks and couldn't sit through most of the episodes with the exceptions of the season premiere, The End, Children are Our Future, Abandon All Hope, My Bloody Valentine, Dark Side of the Moon, Two Minutes to Midnight and Swan Song.
Still firmly felt after S5 the show should have ended. Definitely knew it after this season and S7 I think was a bad idea creatively since the show has nothing left to say.
My least favorite seasons: 6, 3--these were the two seasons that had far more episodes I didn't like than I liked and really not interested in rewatching.
S5 comes smack in the middle. I just rewatched it again on TNT the last two weeks and couldn't sit through most of the episodes with the exceptions of the season premiere, The End, Children are Our Future, Abandon All Hope, My Bloody Valentine, Dark Side of the Moon, Two Minutes to Midnight and Swan Song.
Still firmly felt after S5 the show should have ended. Definitely knew it after this season and S7 I think was a bad idea creatively since the show has nothing left to say.
Castiel could have gone to the two guys who kill things far more powerful they they are professionally and hashed out a plan to take down Raphael without going off the deep end. These guys killed Zachariah and locked the two most powerful archangels around in a tiny cage at the bottom of hell. After facing down Michael and Lucifer and winning, Raphael is kind of meh. Which, I imagine, is why Dean was so dismissive of the whole civil war thing.
The utter simplicity of trapping Raph in a circle of holy fire and stabbing him to death while he's helpless seemed to have been lost in favor of grand gambits that kept Sam and Dean completely out of the loop.
I imagine that this was to protect them, but really, protecting people by lying to them is the stupidest them anyone could do, especially on this show. (And Dean needs to be beat upside the head for leaving Ben and whatsherame completely helpless in the event that a monster decides to kill them. You'd think he would have learned this lesson when he found out that Adam was eaten by ghouls. Ignorance is not safety. Ignorance is the exact opposite of safety, especially in the Supernatural universe.)
And for that matter, why the hell didn't she have salt lines and Devil's Traps all over her house (not to mention anti-possession symbols tattooed on and/or surgically caved into her bones)?
The utter simplicity of trapping Raph in a circle of holy fire and stabbing him to death while he's helpless seemed to have been lost in favor of grand gambits that kept Sam and Dean completely out of the loop.
I imagine that this was to protect them, but really, protecting people by lying to them is the stupidest them anyone could do, especially on this show. (And Dean needs to be beat upside the head for leaving Ben and whatsherame completely helpless in the event that a monster decides to kill them. You'd think he would have learned this lesson when he found out that Adam was eaten by ghouls. Ignorance is not safety. Ignorance is the exact opposite of safety, especially in the Supernatural universe.)
And for that matter, why the hell didn't she have salt lines and Devil's Traps all over her house (not to mention anti-possession symbols tattooed on and/or surgically caved into her bones)?
The two major plot holes I see with the first episode is of course Dean (and Sam too) not even bringing up what Sam can do (he still could have been taken out in surprise to leave the final act to Dean, but to not even bring it up!!), and the 2nd which is even worse.
Castiel wiped Lisa & Ben's memories, so what. How the hell does that protect them? It doesn't in any way shape or form. It just now prevents them from worrying Dean the next time a demon or other creature decides to take action against Dean by going against someone he cares for. It was incredibly stupid.
THe only thing that would make sense is if Castiel wiped the mind of every human, demon and other creature, and simply put I don't think Castiel (at that time) had anywhere near the juice to do.
Castiel wiped Lisa & Ben's memories, so what. How the hell does that protect them? It doesn't in any way shape or form. It just now prevents them from worrying Dean the next time a demon or other creature decides to take action against Dean by going against someone he cares for. It was incredibly stupid.
THe only thing that would make sense is if Castiel wiped the mind of every human, demon and other creature, and simply put I don't think Castiel (at that time) had anywhere near the juice to do.
Definitely plot holes and it's not perfect, but Cas' arc really makes up for it and this is my favorite SN finale. I love Buffy, but I much prefer Cas' road to power than Willow's drug metaphor (granted, Cas started out as an angel so it's not a perfect comparison).
That moment a few weeks ago when he was asking for a sign from God that he was on the wrong path - he has to take it on faith that God is even listening and it echoes the loneliness he is feeling and the estrangement from Dean and Sam, probably the only ones keeping him grounded in any way.
But who was Cas supposed to look to for guidance in this matter? It's lonely at the top, and he was dealing with huge, end-of-the-world issues, and despite his means-justify-the-ends stance with his major plan, he is still trying to do the right thing even with Dean until the end.
So are we to assume that the situation (him making tough decisions and what he considers the right decisions in the face of opposition even from those he has personal connections with) + the power he gained from purgatory's souls has given him delusions of (more) grandeur (than he naturally has)? Or is his new belief that he is God not a result of him cracking from taking too much power on? I assume the former is more likely since there have been multiple warnings about just how crazy that much power is, but you never know.
I don't know if anyone watching also is familiar with Marvel Comic's Secret Wars from the 1980s, but I'm reminded of the end. Doctor Doom is given a fraction of The Beyonder's power (he's not God, but he's so powerful he might as well be to us humans). Doom is driven mad just trying to control and contain the power since he can make things happen just by thinking about them and is trying not to think of anything. Basically, he has more power than his human form can handle. And I'm wondering if it's even possible in the SN universe for an angel to wield the power of a god.
Lots of rambling there, but I really think the build-up to the finale was great. Also I wonder what Cas' plans are for Crowley.
That moment a few weeks ago when he was asking for a sign from God that he was on the wrong path - he has to take it on faith that God is even listening and it echoes the loneliness he is feeling and the estrangement from Dean and Sam, probably the only ones keeping him grounded in any way.
But who was Cas supposed to look to for guidance in this matter? It's lonely at the top, and he was dealing with huge, end-of-the-world issues, and despite his means-justify-the-ends stance with his major plan, he is still trying to do the right thing even with Dean until the end.
So are we to assume that the situation (him making tough decisions and what he considers the right decisions in the face of opposition even from those he has personal connections with) + the power he gained from purgatory's souls has given him delusions of (more) grandeur (than he naturally has)? Or is his new belief that he is God not a result of him cracking from taking too much power on? I assume the former is more likely since there have been multiple warnings about just how crazy that much power is, but you never know.
I don't know if anyone watching also is familiar with Marvel Comic's Secret Wars from the 1980s, but I'm reminded of the end. Doctor Doom is given a fraction of The Beyonder's power (he's not God, but he's so powerful he might as well be to us humans). Doom is driven mad just trying to control and contain the power since he can make things happen just by thinking about them and is trying not to think of anything. Basically, he has more power than his human form can handle. And I'm wondering if it's even possible in the SN universe for an angel to wield the power of a god.
Lots of rambling there, but I really think the build-up to the finale was great. Also I wonder what Cas' plans are for Crowley.
Mswood, they don't want Sam ganking demons with his mind or on the blood again. He's like an addict that way. I can understand them not going that route. It's not a realistic possibility for them so they don't entertain it. Absolute power corrupts and all that.
I know but to not even address it. When for example Sam offers to relieve Dean when he is torturing the demon Sam could have brought it up, and Dean could have said something like, I can't let you do that. Or I need you as you are now, I don't need an addict when the shit really hits. Anything. Hell a I can't risk losing you for just two people, or I can't take the chance with your mind blocks, anything. To not address it is a weakness in the script.
It's like if they still had the colt, and kept refusing to use it and never addressed the reason why.
And I still don't see how in the world wiping Lisa & Ben's minds helps them in anyway.
It just keeps them at risk with no avenue for calling anyone for help.
Man, I am still in shock over that cliff hanger I had to gather "MOST" of my thoughts. Thouroughly enjoyed this one as well as the other season enders. As it was stated I believe it was as the saying goes absolute power corrupts absolutely. (where have we heard that before?...
) I know for sure I can't wait for next season!
) I know for sure I can't wait for next season!Similar threads
