Revisiting Star Trek TOS/TAS...
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Some could argue that Gamma Trianguli VI would be considered an arrested culture. Hence, no Prime Directive violation. Some could argue that their very existence amounted to little more than slavery.
But don't let those things get in the way of your Jim Kirk-Prime Directive witch hunt.
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It could be argued that since there was no previous contact with the inhabitants and they only had "strange sensor readings" by the last scout ship to go by then neither Starfleet nor the Enterprise crew had any real idea what they'd find or what the inhabitants would be like.
Some could argue that Gamma Trianguli VI would be considered an arrested culture. Hence, no Prime Directive violation. Some could argue that their very existence amounted to little more than slavery.
But don't let those things get in the way of your Jim Kirk-Prime Directive witch hunt.
As an aside to The Apple discussion... DC series 1 did a bang-up job following up on those events in the movie era. It's called The Return of the Serpent and it ran three issues (#43-45).
Some could argue that Gamma Trianguli VI would be considered an arrested culture. Hence, no Prime Directive violation. Some could argue that their very existence amounted to little more than slavery.
But don't let those things get in the way of your Jim Kirk-Prime Directive witch hunt.
I don't think an arrested culture is really a valid argument against the PD...it still involves some scary one-sided decision making for another whole planet...one that never requested interference, and is very far from any kind of any technological sophistication. Kirk may have had orders to investigate (already a violation) but he's the one makes the decision, quite against the opinion of his confidants and advisors.
Actually no it can't be argued as slavery, they had freedom but a lot of structure. The reached a level of sustainability, one independent of any need to be changed. Kirk simply couldn't stand who the culture was run by...obviously machines are inferior to man and need to be destroyed.
Further speculation: What if the control of Val was pre-arranged by some grand evolutionary plan of its originators, one that protected the inhabitants from some unknown evolutionary harm, and Kirk could have no knowledge of. What if it was merely a transition period to another level at a later date? Without really knowing the purpose, Kirk has done incomprehensible harm.
RAMA
“The Deadly Years” ****
The landing party contracts a disease similar to rapid aging.
On the face of it it would seem easy to dismiss this episode. These days it's easy to make light of "disease of the week" stories in science fiction television. But back when Star Trek was new it hadn't yet become a familiar routine. Yes, we'd already seen deadly ailments in TOS previously in "The Naked Time" and "Miri," but the story idea hadn't worn out its welcome yet.
What makes this work for me are the performances as members of the landing party slowly fall physically and mentally apart. It isn't enough that they display difficulty in physical movement and the requisite appearance of advanced aging, and also diminishing mental ability, but they also display the crankiness of advanced age as some people fight accepting their deterioration. They can get into a state of denial that they're just not what they used to be. Shatner nails this aspect of aging with his stubbornness, moodiness and even a touch a vanity. Candidly I found watching our heroes fall apart rather moving. It was rather sad and I certainly don't mean that in the pathetic sense. And this was done through a lot of little things and small moments.
I also liked the detail of having the cast wearing slightly larger uniforms to suggest their diminishing physiques.
Although he had the regulations on his side Commodore Stocker really was an idiot. I'd wager that there were at least two people aboard who could have taken commend in place of Kirk, Spock or Scotty: Sulu or Assistant Chief Engineer DeSalle. They certainly would have been a lot safer bet and smarter than Stocker.
Although Kirk mightn't make an issue of it I can well imagine Starfleet brass having an issue with Stocker once they got hold of the reports of what happened after Stocker took command. He not only endangered a valuable frontline starship and its crew, but he could have set off an interstellar war.
Another interesting turn of events is that this time it's the woman who is putting the moves on Kirk, or at least dropping the hints and giving him the "come hither" looks.
The landing party contracts a disease similar to rapid aging.
On the face of it it would seem easy to dismiss this episode. These days it's easy to make light of "disease of the week" stories in science fiction television. But back when Star Trek was new it hadn't yet become a familiar routine. Yes, we'd already seen deadly ailments in TOS previously in "The Naked Time" and "Miri," but the story idea hadn't worn out its welcome yet.
What makes this work for me are the performances as members of the landing party slowly fall physically and mentally apart. It isn't enough that they display difficulty in physical movement and the requisite appearance of advanced aging, and also diminishing mental ability, but they also display the crankiness of advanced age as some people fight accepting their deterioration. They can get into a state of denial that they're just not what they used to be. Shatner nails this aspect of aging with his stubbornness, moodiness and even a touch a vanity. Candidly I found watching our heroes fall apart rather moving. It was rather sad and I certainly don't mean that in the pathetic sense. And this was done through a lot of little things and small moments.
I also liked the detail of having the cast wearing slightly larger uniforms to suggest their diminishing physiques.
Although he had the regulations on his side Commodore Stocker really was an idiot. I'd wager that there were at least two people aboard who could have taken commend in place of Kirk, Spock or Scotty: Sulu or Assistant Chief Engineer DeSalle. They certainly would have been a lot safer bet and smarter than Stocker.
Although Kirk mightn't make an issue of it I can well imagine Starfleet brass having an issue with Stocker once they got hold of the reports of what happened after Stocker took command. He not only endangered a valuable frontline starship and its crew, but he could have set off an interstellar war.
Another interesting turn of events is that this time it's the woman who is putting the moves on Kirk, or at least dropping the hints and giving him the "come hither" looks.
Some could argue that Gamma Trianguli VI would be considered an arrested culture. Hence, no Prime Directive violation. Some could argue that their very existence amounted to little more than slavery.
But don't let those things get in the way of your Jim Kirk-Prime Directive witch hunt.
I don't think an arrested culture is really a valid argument against the PD...it still involves some scary one-sided decision making for another whole planet...one that never requested interference, and is very far from any kind of any technological sophistication. Kirk may have had orders to investigate (already a violation) but he's the one makes the decision, quite against the opinion of his confidants and advisors.
Actually no it can't be argued as slavery, they had freedom but a lot of structure. The reached a level of sustainability, one independent of any need to be changed. Kirk simply couldn't stand who the culture was run by...obviously machines are inferior to man and need to be destroyed.
Further speculation: What if the control of Val was pre-arranged by some grand evolutionary plan of its originators, one that protected the inhabitants from some unknown evolutionary harm, and Kirk could have no knowledge of. What if it was merely a transition period to another level at a later date? Without really knowing the purpose, Kirk has done incomprehensible harm.
RAMA
1. There wasn't any issue until Vaal attempted to pull the Enterprise out of orbit.
2. See The Return of the Serpent.
I wouldn't say shallow exactly, and "In a Mirror Darkly" was cleverly engineered. I enjoyed Crossover immensely, but I had to get over the disappointment that the most important part of the original ep was not followed up on...
RAMA
Some could argue that Gamma Trianguli VI would be considered an arrested culture. Hence, no Prime Directive violation. Some could argue that their very existence amounted to little more than slavery.
But don't let those things get in the way of your Jim Kirk-Prime Directive witch hunt.
I don't think an arrested culture is really a valid argument against the PD...it still involves some scary one-sided decision making for another whole planet...one that never requested interference, and is very far from any kind of any technological sophistication. Kirk may have had orders to investigate (already a violation) but he's the one makes the decision, quite against the opinion of his confidants and advisors.
Actually no it can't be argued as slavery, they had freedom but a lot of structure. The reached a level of sustainability, one independent of any need to be changed. Kirk simply couldn't stand who the culture was run by...obviously machines are inferior to man and need to be destroyed.
Further speculation: What if the control of Val was pre-arranged by some grand evolutionary plan of its originators, one that protected the inhabitants from some unknown evolutionary harm, and Kirk could have no knowledge of. What if it was merely a transition period to another level at a later date? Without really knowing the purpose, Kirk has done incomprehensible harm.
RAMA
1. There wasn't any issue until Vaal attempted to pull the Enterprise out of orbit.
2. See The Return of the Serpent.
Yes, of course...an alien spaceship comes to the USA and starts telling the Congress and pres we are backwards and starts making changes....of course we would let them.RAMA
RAMA
None of that happened until after Vaal attacked the Enterprise, lets also not forget that it is Vaal that teaches the population of Gamma Trianguli VI how to kill.
RAMA
None of that happened until after Vaal attacked the Enterprise, lets also not forget that it is Vaal that teaches the population of Gamma Trianguli VI how to kill.
So? Kirk already knows how to kill...and Vaal wouldn't have done anything if Kirk hadn't landed in the first place.
RAMA
RAMA
None of that happened until after Vaal attacked the Enterprise, lets also not forget that it is Vaal that teaches the population of Gamma Trianguli VI how to kill.
So? Kirk already knows how to kill...and Vaal wouldn't have done anything if Kirk hadn't landed in the first place.
RAMA
God you're dense.
The first assault was committed by Vaal, the teaching of the natives to kill was done by Vaal and the attack on the Enterprise was done by Vaal. Even though no actions of force were perpetrated on either the citizens or planet up to that point.
Maybe if Vaal had better manners he'd still be around.
Vaal was evidently programmed to minimize or outright eliminate any or all possible forms of contamination or influence, not just on the ground but in near orbital space as well. It's quite possible if Vaal had done nothing the Enterprise would have completed their servey and reported the Vaalian natives as primitive and of no real value to anyone else. Let them be. But Vaal's attacks upon the landing party and then attempt to destroy the Enterprise changed the game.
Again I come back to the issue of not being told how this all got started. Someone with advanced tech set this up to protect and preserve the natives for some reason which we're never told. And the status quo might have remained in place if Vaal had not tried to destroy the Enterprise and crew. Kirk then would have reported that the natives were worshipping and serving a hunk of metal and Federation sociologists or whatever would have studied it to their hearts desire.
Again I come back to the issue of not being told how this all got started. Someone with advanced tech set this up to protect and preserve the natives for some reason which we're never told. And the status quo might have remained in place if Vaal had not tried to destroy the Enterprise and crew. Kirk then would have reported that the natives were worshipping and serving a hunk of metal and Federation sociologists or whatever would have studied it to their hearts desire.
RAMA
None of that happened until after Vaal attacked the Enterprise, lets also not forget that it is Vaal that teaches the population of Gamma Trianguli VI how to kill.
So? Kirk already knows how to kill...and Vaal wouldn't have done anything if Kirk hadn't landed in the first place.
RAMA
So it's okay to shoot a stranger that steps on your lawn?
Or it could be some type of advanced ecological control center that the creators lost control of. It killed the planetary population except the ones it needed to do maintenance.
Hey, it's far fetched, but it's a reason. Kinda like Skynet after all is said and done.
Or it could be some type of advanced ecological control center that the creators lost control of. It killed the planetary population except the ones it needed to do maintenance.
None of that happened until after Vaal attacked the Enterprise, lets also not forget that it is Vaal that teaches the population of Gamma Trianguli VI how to kill.
So? Kirk already knows how to kill...and Vaal wouldn't have done anything if Kirk hadn't landed in the first place.
RAMA
God you're dense.
The first assault was committed by Vaal, the teaching of the natives to kill was done by Vaal and the attack on the Enterprise was done by Vaal. Even though no actions of force were perpetrated on either the citizens or planet up to that point.
Maybe if Vaal had better manners he'd still be around.
I don't think you get it...what business do they have being there??? They broke the PD the minute they landed...
RAMA
Hey, it's far fetched, but it's a reason. Kinda like Skynet after all is said and done.
Or it could be some type of advanced ecological control center that the creators lost control of. It killed the planetary population except the ones it needed to do maintenance.
The only reason I think that way is because of it's treatment of "life" that isn't feeding it.
God you're dense.
The first assault was committed by Vaal, the teaching of the natives to kill was done by Vaal and the attack on the Enterprise was done by Vaal. Even though no actions of force were perpetrated on either the citizens or planet up to that point.
Maybe if Vaal had better manners he'd still be around.
I don't think you get it...what business do they have being there??? They broke the PD the minute they landed...
RAMA
Since when is landing on a planet breaking the Prime Directive? Or have you forgotten all those duck-blind missions we've seen on Star Trek: The Next Generation?
Not much fun being an explorer if you can't actually explore.
God you're dense.
The first assault was committed by Vaal, the teaching of the natives to kill was done by Vaal and the attack on the Enterprise was done by Vaal. Even though no actions of force were perpetrated on either the citizens or planet up to that point.
Maybe if Vaal had better manners he'd still be around.
I don't think you get it...what business do they have being there??? They broke the PD the minute they landed...
RAMA
Since when is landing on a planet breaking the Prime Directive? Or have you forgotten all those duck-blind missions we've seen on Star Trek: The Next Generation?
Not much fun being an explorer if you can't actually explore.
If you don't understand this there is no point disucussing this issue...duck blinds and investigation is permitted, revealing yourself to the pop is not...oh brother...every other action that follows results from this...
RAMA
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