FX/editing wishlist/technical/related discussion for STNG-R

[JarodRussell]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

Your just determined to eliminate imagination, aren't you?

In the script for "The Big Goodbye", the Jarada were intended to appear, but budget restrictions prevented this. (Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion) The script describes them as "wasp-like; black and yellow, with pointed insectile features and waving black antennae." [1] So it WAS planned but the planet view was added instead cause they couldn't afford it. I think this may add to validity of putting it back in...

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...goodbye217.jpg

l

I think it lacks imagination to not allow creativity and just a small amount of free reign in redoing the FX. It also lacks imagination to want everything the same all the time and to never change. No THAT is boring.

RAMA

While we're at it, how about a 3D conversion?

 

[RAMA]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

l

I think it lacks imagination to not allow creativity and just a small amount of free reign in redoing the FX. It also lacks imagination to want everything the same all the time and to never change. No THAT is boring.

RAMA

While we're at it, how about a 3D conversion?

If there is a market for it, why not? Personally I don't require this.

It continually amazes me how supposedly "enlightened" SF fans are so stodgy and unimaginative. They just love to stand pat, never evolving their thought process, and thinking "in the box".

RAMA

 

[BillJ]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

I think it lacks imagination to not allow creativity and just a small amount of free reign in redoing the FX. It also lacks imagination to want everything the same all the time and to never change. No THAT is boring.

They can be creative as they want in any "new" endeavors they decide to pursue. But when they're screwing with other peoples work they should be judicious.

 

[Harvey]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

Unfortunately, that box is mostly a real one which will result from whatever budget CBS provides for this project. Star Trek Remastered didn't have a lot of money, and this will be more expensive (simply on the basis of there being more episodes).

I also have to wonder who will be in charge of this. It's quite possible, being much more recent than the original Star Trek, that people's whose work is being "screwed with," so to speak, might be more involved.

 

[MacLeod]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

Wasn't part of the point of remastering TOS to preserve it for the future and update it for HD broadcast. i.e to make more money long term.

Surely the same would apply for TNG, it's not so much to make you're money back quickly. But to make it back over 10, 20, 30 etc.. years.

 

[RAMA]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

Wasn't part of the point of remastering TOS to preserve it for the future and update it for HD broadcast. i.e to make more money long term.

Surely the same would apply for TNG, it's not so much to make you're money back quickly. But to make it back over 10, 20, 30 etc.. years.

Exactly...and STNG made loads of money (record money in fact) in cable and syndication packages when it was first done. Its already raked in $500 million or so combined on that rights end alone...if they want to re-air it on cable, they'll make even more money...same with netflix and bluray.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

I think it lacks imagination to not allow creativity and just a small amount of free reign in redoing the FX. It also lacks imagination to want everything the same all the time and to never change. No THAT is boring.

They can be creative as they want in any "new" endeavors they decide to pursue. But when they're screwing with other peoples work they should be judicious.

You obviously didn't read any of my posts...

 

[Harvey]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

The point is to be able to keep making money on the program, yes, but I doubt Paramount wants to sink into a deep hole that won't be quickly filled by the Netflix licensing fee, home video sales, and syndication. Certainly the small budget they allocated for the remastering of Star Trek suggests that they're not willing to spend globs and globs of money that they won't be able to get back for ten or twenty years.

 

[MacLeod]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

Yes but hasn't the Star Trek franchise already earned them 100's of millions if not a few billion already.

 

[Harvey]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

Sure, but this would be a new investment that CBS would probably want paid off quickly.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

I hope they dub Picard so he finally gets a French accent. I mean what the hell was that in the original run?

 

[JRoss]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

I think this is a fantastic idea. As to the argument that Paramount would not have archived the film with advanced technology and future upgrades in mind, consider that by this point in history future technology was already in development (HDTV's roots go back to the 70s) and films were being remastered.

If you don't like the idea because it is messing with someone else' vision, go to Memory Alpha, read synopses for the episodes and take note of how many changes were made to a script/episode/FX shot due to limited time, budget or other adverses circumstances. You'll find that the finished product was often a far departure from the original intent.

Why mess with a good thing? Consider the future of Trek. If it is to stay alive, new fans must be brought to the franchise. If you were to show TNG to a non-fan in hopes of converting them, do you think that they would be more likely to join based on the same shots of the Excelsior every few episodes, the weird pinkish lights that comprised a lot of the space creature and energy field FX and the now painfully obvious facial appliance seams on a lot of the aliens, or would they be more eager to be a fan if they saw a more polished product.

 

[BillJ]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

I hope they dub Picard so he finally gets a French accent. I mean what the hell was that in the original run?

Imagine the hell that would open up on this board if they dubbed over Stewart with a French actor. But hey, we're suppose to be fixing mistakes here. I'm sure if they had more time and money they would've went to France to get the right actor. Maybe along the way they can take Frakes out and replace him with an actor that doesn't constantly look like he's trying to push out a crap.

 

[BillJ]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

If you don't like the idea because it is messing with someone else' vision, go to Memory Alpha, read synopses for the episodes and take note of how many changes were made to a script/episode/FX shot due to limited time, budget or other adverses circumstances. You'll find that the finished product was often a far departure from the original intent.

But in the process you throw away an incredible amount of ingenious work done by the VFX people on this show.

 

[JRoss]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

Oh, no doubt, and I do respect the work of VFX people. I actually disliked much of the special edition of Star Wars because Lucas verbally disrespected the incredibly hard work of his original team and also replaced it with sometimes even worse effects. Jabba went from a life-like puppet to a gooey blob. Not cool.

For the most part what I would like to see is balancing the color scheme and fixing the throwaway shots, like the Enterprise and the Excelsior. Also, get rid of the weirder ships in the Wolf 359 graveyard and replace them with more traditional ships.

 

[Harvey]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

It won't be thrown away as long as they include the originals on the Blu-Ray releases, as they did with Star Trek.

 

[GNDN]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

It won't be thrown away as long as they include the originals on the Blu-Ray releases, as they did with Star Trek.

Problem as I see it is that creating new CGI FX for this project is virtually guaranteed. That much is similar to TOS except that there are more episodes and more FX per episode, so that means more money. OK let's say that's all done.

Now to the original FX. They can't just be transferred to HD in the way TOS FX were. Certainly not with current technology if we want them to look any good. So to preserve the originals, they would have to recreate them from the filmed elements, which means new compositing, and possibly new animation FX (I don't know if phaser fire, etc. were done as hand drawn animation or CGI originally, and don't know if any of those FX exist on film as opposed to only the lo-res video)

So not only are you talking about a larger project to begin with, but to properly present both versions would require nearly double the work as they would be recreating past FX work and creating new CGI. I'm concerned that this will not be considered worth the effort.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

Ideally, they should mix the footage they have on film with new stuff. The space shots look excellent in HD, as you can see from the shots they reused in Generations. I'm sure that other effects that mix with live action will look excellent as well once they are recomposited in HD.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

A thought just occurred to me, are there any effects that could make "Shades Of Grey" less painful?

Heavy drinking, maybe...

 

[RAMA]

Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

Ideally, they should mix the footage they have on film with new stuff. The space shots look excellent in HD, as you can see from the shots they reused in Generations. I'm sure that other effects that mix with live action will look excellent as well once they are recomposited in HD.

Unfortunately some of the shots done by Image G and in-house were not as good as ILM's stock shots...which were only provided in season one.

It won't be thrown away as long as they include the originals on the Blu-Ray releases, as they did with Star Trek.

Problem as I see it is that creating new CGI FX for this project is virtually guaranteed. That much is similar to TOS except that there are more episodes and more FX per episode, so that means more money. OK let's say that's all done.

Now to the original FX. They can't just be transferred to HD in the way TOS FX were. Certainly not with current technology if we want them to look any good. So to preserve the originals, they would have to recreate them from the filmed elements, which means new compositing, and possibly new animation FX (I don't know if phaser fire, etc. were done as hand drawn animation or CGI originally, and don't know if any of those FX exist on film as opposed to only the lo-res video)

So not only are you talking about a larger project to begin with, but to properly present both versions would require nearly double the work as they would be recreating past FX work and creating new CGI. I'm concerned that this will not be considered worth the effort.

They were accomplished by basically hand painting with the Quantel Harry. They would certainly be replaced a good percentage of the time.

http://www.cva.co.uk/art-RD.htm

If you don't like the idea because it is messing with someone else' vision, go to Memory Alpha, read synopses for the episodes and take note of how many changes were made to a script/episode/FX shot due to limited time, budget or other adverses circumstances. You'll find that the finished product was often a far departure from the original intent.

But in the process you throw away an incredible amount of ingenious work done by the VFX people on this show.

Its a shame but their work can't be seen properly in modern format. Good reason to "future proof". I'm sure if you really want they'll preserve the old episodes as well but its not really ncessary to watch it.

RAMA