What was the idea behind Aiden Ford?

[Morpheus 02]

I disagree that Ford needed to be younger. The age he was in the show was the age he should be. The writers just needed to come up with something for him to do and they couldn't so they wrote him out. Kind of Weir which is more disappointing to me. I liked her.

i don;'t mean younge rthan the actor was (no repeats of Wesley Crusher), but younger than Shepard. I think it would have been an interesting twist that a person younger in age and lower in rank would be the veteran/mentor to Sheppard, at least for the first season in terms of Stargate experience.

 

[AJ86]

He was younger than Sheppard wasn't he?

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

He was younger than Sheppard wasn't he?

of course

 

[Kelso]

In what way was he reminiscent of Teal'c? What a strange thing to say.

 

[DWF]

In what way was he reminiscent of Teal'c? What a strange thing to say.

Indeed.

 

[Admiral_Young]

@Morpheus 02 my apologies then. I read your meaning wrong. Ford was actually one of my favorite characters on the show so I was disappointed with what they did with him but it was understandable.

 

[NKemp3]

ok, so i was watching 'Sanctuary' from S1 and i can't understand what the writers were going for with his character? to me he appears as a diluted version of Teal'c. he's smaller, has a timid voice, and he even looks a lot like Teal'c.

surely they didn't begin the show with him deserting the team in mind? or was it always their plan for him to play his role for a little while and then leave? i dislike ronon intensely, but he's much better than ford. the latter's lines are confined to addressing shepphard with 'yes sir!'

What were they going for? How about typical token black male with no real purpose? If the character is not interesting that is the fault of the writers who aren't invested in the character. The writers for SGA ended up creating about a half dozen white male scientists and gave them personalities and purpose but couldn't muster the enthusiasm to do that for the one black guy who happens to be military (how is it on an action show you can't come up with storylines for a guy who is a soldier?). Yes, I brought up the racial angle because it happens too often. Truth of the matter TPTB did the same thing to an extent with Greer during season one of SGU, but the actor, Jamil Walker Smith, is so great he was able to elevate the material he was given. But actors like that are rare so it is up to the writers to make a character interesting. A failed character is the result of failed writing IMO. Every character can be made interesting just as long as the writer has the needed imagination and is truly invested in all the characters.

 

[DarKush]

^
NKemp3, you're right on the money.

One of the other posters had an idea that intrigued me about Ford being redeemed. I wonder if a more hardened Ford could've filled the role later occupied by Ronan? I liked Ronan, but the idea of a more bad ass, Ford with Wraith powers rejoining the team, rebuilding the broken trust, etc., would've made for some good TV.

I'm not sure if I agree with the idea of Ford as SGA's original Teal'c. I see Teyla fitting that role and later Ronan. Both fit the stoic/badass warrior type more than Ford. The only thing that Ford and Teal'c might share in common was being buddies with the main action star of their series. So I guess that's something, but I still got the Teal'c vibe more from the other two.

 

[AJ86]

Bollocks is he right on the money. Race has absolutely nothing to do with anything here, they wrote for Teal'c for 10 years, and even when Ford was replaced it was with someone else 'of colour' (hate that term). The reason Ford fell by the wayside is because they'd already written Teyla into the warrior role and didn't have an archetype left for him. It's the same reason Teyla fell by the wayside when Ronon was introduced, because he took over as resident ass-kicker. Honestly, if anyone has race issues here, it's the fans who think Ford is in any way like Teal'c.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Bad writing choices, yes. Race, no. Some may remember that in the original show outline, Ford was NOT "supposed" to be black - the role of SCIENTIST was specifically called for "African-Canadian". When Hewlett ultimately agreed to be the nerd of the group, they balanced it out by making Ford a minority without changing what the character was. At NO point in his time was it ever even referred to that Ford was any race in particular.

The Stargate franchise has rarely, if ever gone there. At least until Universe, and even THEN the casting call for Greer was not for a black man - the character was the same but named "Ron 'Psycho' Stasiak" of no particular ethnicity. The above poster was right in that the writers did write the stereotypical Angry Black Man, but the actor was able to inject a LOT of pathos and understanding to the role, which the writers eventually took off with and gave him more along those lines as a result.

Mark

 

[AJ86]

I suspect someone called 'Ron Stasiak' (a Polish surname) was originally envisaged as white. I seriously doubt they meant him to be an 'angry black guy' from the begining, he just was a nutter character that they just happened to cast a black actor for. If they'd passed on casting Jamil purely because he was black, and because they were scared of the stereotype then that would have been racist.

 

[Star Wolf]

Were not they all "nutter" characters on SGU?

 

[AJ86]

Nope, just not your standard sci-fi archetypes.

 

[bullethead]

Were not they all "nutter" characters on SGU?

Nah, they were your regular usual stable of characters you can find throughout film, television, and media tossed into setting where a large number of them wouldn't even be in the show based on the previously established rules of the franchise (which could've been solved by fleshing out the SGC's situation a bit more, which they neglected to do).

 

[Skywalker]

In the few episodes of SGU I watched, Greer was the only standout character besides Rush (though Rush wasn't a surprise--Carlyle's by far the best actor Stargate's ever had).

 

[DarKush]

Bollocks is he right on the money. Race has absolutely nothing to do with anything here, they wrote for Teal'c for 10 years, and even when Ford was replaced it was with someone else 'of colour' (hate that term). The reason Ford fell by the wayside is because they'd already written Teyla into the warrior role and didn't have an archetype left for him. It's the same reason Teyla fell by the wayside when Ronon was introduced, because he took over as resident ass-kicker. Honestly, if anyone has race issues here, it's the fans who think Ford is in any way like Teal'c.

How can you be so absolutely sure race played no part in the character's development? I think N'Kemp brought up a good point and talked about a pattern I've noticed myself, not just in Stargate but in other TV shows and movies. Sci-fi alone is littered with undeveloped or underdeveloped characters "who just happen to be black". (I am black and I don't like that term. It reminds me of a George Carlin riff where he makes fun of it. It's like people consider being black an accident or something.)

I'm not arguing that race solely is a factor, but I'm not going to dismiss it out of hand. Especially when you have generally an all white, all male room of writers who might not have the cultural sensitivities or sensibilities, or interest to write for black characters. So it becomes easier to just let these characters linger. At least they get a 'point' for having an inclusive cast.

One thing I will give Stargate credit for was they actually took Teal'c beyond a kind of noble savage type character and gave him a family, character development, etc. But that didn't really happen with Ford, in terms of development, until he turned Wraith-infected (which I liked because at least they were doing something with him). I do want to say that I don't think Ford was a noble savage, not the way that it felt like Teyla, Ronon, and Teal'c were.

I'm not so confident that race didn't factor into why this guy wasn' developed, or why the writers struggled, if they did at all, in trying to get him or make him interesting or make him work as a character. Why does it have to be an either/or with Teyla, noticeably the other major black character on the show? Teyla was Teal'c lite, but that didn't mean the writers couldn't have come up with something else for Ford. To be honest, I don't think Ford was meant to fill the Teal'c role anyway, since Teyla was pretty much there from the pilot. I'm guessing he was meant to be a fun companion for Shepherd, someone to trade quips with, but Rodney took on that role. Someone who was supposed to be more light hearted since SGA started out being 'darker' than SG-1.

I think Greer is an interesting case. The character started out as white with the name Stasiak I'm assuming, but I wonder if they changed the character after Jamil Walker Smith was cast or before. In any event, he did take on more of an angry black man vibe than a psycho vibe. I do think Smith's acting though added touches of humanity to what could've been a very limited, forgettable character. I also think the writers have tried a little to give him some character moments, but not as much as he might have deserved.

I do think its interesting that a lot of people of color filled the roles of the Jaffa and other warrior type roles, roles that required brawn, but I wish there had been more diversity in terms of casting (and developing) scientists, and other non-martial roles.

 

[AJ86]

If it were a race thing, it would be constant. They wouldn't pick and choose to under develop some black actors and not others. There have been numerous underdeveloped characters, numerous bad tempered ones too. The only reason people are picking up on this is because he's black, which in itself is a little bit racist.

 

[DarKush]

I disagree. It doesn't have to be a constant at all. I think race might be on one factor, not the only one, in how black characters (and perhaps other characters of color) have been portrayed. Though the Stargate franchise has shown an interesting propensity to start in one place and sometimes take their characters of color to another, which is a good thing.

The tenderness that Greer showed toward Park during the finale was great, and played against the angry black man trope, however I don't know if that was a result of the writers or JWS, since most of those scenes didn't have dialogue.

Though all too often, black characters on Stargate and other TV shows are not going to be the main heroes, are not going to be the people the audience is supposed to empathize with. They are not envisioned to occupy the O'Neill, Shep, and Scott roles. At best you might get the black buddy or the black boss, maybe even a black girlfriend. But still these are secondary characters, a lot of times with no inner lives of their own, and no purpose outside of helping their white buddies out.

I think there is a greater tendency to hamstrung the development of black characters, in part because I think there remains a gulf in understanding and empathy, between whites and blacks in the US. I think this deficit is greater for whites than blacks. I think blacks identify with whites far more easily than the reverse, due to the history of slavery, Jim Crow, continuing racism, and continuing negative racial imaging.

Despite that kind of racial baggage we got Teal'c, though he had to come from the more 'familiar' noble savage type of character, perhaps to make him more acceptable, or more logical than starting out Christopher Judge as a scientist for example. The idea of a badass black warrior, of the black man as the "Other" is well trod ground. But with Teal'c it was like the writers caught themselves and started fleshing this guy out. I have to say I wonder if he had actually started out as a regular human who was black, if he would have gotten that kind of development? I have yet to see it in Stargate. I think him being an exotic, "alien" gave the writers something to work with, or a new culture (s) that allowed for exploration. To their credit they did do it, with respect for Teal'c's growth and development, and they did stick with following his family.

To a lesser extent we got it with Teyla too. Though her development was much more haphazard. And I think the writers pulled back from what thought would be an eventual Teyla-Shep pairing.

Who knows what was going to happen with Greer. The potential was there, but once again, how much of that was the actor infusing more humanity in his portrayal than was written? And we didn't get much development for Ford, until his Wraith turn, and Ellis remained a hardass without much development at all.

 

[Morpheus 02]

I'm very much tracking with Darkush, but with a couple of nuanced thoughts...

i think one source of the problem is that many of the characters of the Stargate sequels (especially Atlantis) were not thought out very well...it seeme dlike there was no biography created or story arc outlined in advance.

In addition, i don't think, at least for Atlantis, the casting was the best, at least for the African Americans. They may hvae been the best looking,but not necessarily most talented.

So they weren't able to make their characters come alive, and make them interesting to write for, as opposed to Sheppard & McKay. (the humor about them, and how the actors portrayed them, made it easier to wrte for such a character).

and later on, the wrters would then be stuck to develop these characters.

i think the Greer character was well-acted, and we were starting to get some interesting action with him. I still didn't understand the motivation behind his kidney donation & "quick" recovery, for example. But actor played it such that it seemed there was much more to the story. for me...i only started liking Greer when he started making jokes -- made him more relateable to me.


So my thought is weak planning multiplied by bad casting creating a situation that made it harder to dig out of. And while i don't think it was intentional, definitely white characters got the short shrift, especially on Atlantis.

And random question -- wasn't some of Teal'C's storyline advanced by Christopher Judge? (i.e. he wrote some teal'C centered stories, giving his character more depth & background)?

 

[Star Wolf]

i think the Greer character was well-acted, and we were starting to get some interesting action with him. I still didn't understand the motivation behind his kidney donation & "quick" recovery, for example. But actor played it such that it seemed there was much more to the story. for me...i only started liking Greer when he started making jokes -- made him more relateable to me.

As the "top" and a US Marine his job was to put his body on the line to protect the civilians around him. With no hill to take and one of two best volunteers of course he stepped forward before sending one of his troops to do it. It was like the revised recruiting pitch in The Right Stuff when NASA started trying to get test pilots for the Mercury program after Yeager and the boys turned them down turned them down, they went to Alan Sheppard and emphasized the danger of the assignment.