New episode tonight, good people. Directed by the maniacal mind of Ben Edlund. His first. What can I say? It should be an emotional tour de force. 
Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion thread
- Thread starter Dorian Thompson
- Start date
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
Ben Edlund? Effing Sweet!
Ben Edlund? Effing Sweet!
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
Normally by this stage in a season I'm looking forward to each episode but the upswing I had hoped for after the hiatus with "My Heart Will Go On" was dashed by the last two episodes. It also didn't help that the writers mishandled the plotting of the arc this season to where I just lost all interest in it. This has been the most unfocused season of the series. They waited too late into the game to pull the Crowley/Castiel bad guy(?) card and now it is just going to be crammed into the tail end.
Normally by this stage in a season I'm looking forward to each episode but the upswing I had hoped for after the hiatus with "My Heart Will Go On" was dashed by the last two episodes. It also didn't help that the writers mishandled the plotting of the arc this season to where I just lost all interest in it. This has been the most unfocused season of the series. They waited too late into the game to pull the Crowley/Castiel bad guy(?) card and now it is just going to be crammed into the tail end.
Last edited:
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
I couldn't agree less. I think the last couple of episodes have been the best of the season.
I couldn't agree less. I think the last couple of episodes have been the best of the season.
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
"Frontierland" looked like it might be fun and a SN classic but I was stunned how little the writers did with the idea--it was just so run-of-the-mill. I mean we have something big happening--the guys traveling into the past to meet the original hunter Samuel Colt and we get some obvious flat jokes, a stale supernatural creature and a waste of bringing in Colt. I would have loved seeing the guys working with him but nothing. What should ave been a Major Event or standout seemed like just another ordinary episode.
"Mommy Dearest" felt like a distillation of every well worn SN staple th show has become known for, a boring adversary in Eve, a SN character torturing someone to illustrate how dark the characters have become because of a dire situation. And then the big reveal about the strange behavior of the monsters early in the season and Eve's release is that she was trying to create the perfect monster to take the souls of humans before Crowly did--I don't think I could have come up with anything any less lame than that--. The first half of the season episodes weren't that great and all they had going for them was the hope that the seeds they mainly existed to plant would payoff into something better to justify their existence but instead they are still the same dull outings that they were on first blush. The only interesting part were a few minutes with what amounted to nothing than a brief teaser for tonite's episode--hardly can make up for the rest of the lacklustre hour.
The mytharc this season just wasn't very interesting which wasn't helped by the long breaks between getting back to those relevant threads. And even if these last three episodes, much like Fringe this season, turn out to be great it still won't make up for the bulk of the season being a real aimless underwhelming mess.
I had plenty of issues with S5--too many comedies, too many detours from the arc not effectively portaying Armageddon, too many weak episodes(Swap Meat, Sam Interrupted, Hammer of the Gods, Changing Channels, Curious Case of Dean Winchester, Free to Be You and Me)--but at least it had a focus, more excellent classics(Abandon All Hope, My Bloody Valentine, Children are Our Future, The End), generally stronger episodes(Dark Side of the Moon, Song Remains the Same) and the arc was handled a bit better, the recurring characters were more interesting(the Campbells were duds, Raphael, Balthazaar, Lisa, Ben--all yawn inducing). S6 for me has been consistently bland.
Yes "My Heart Will Go On" was good--not great mind you--but amidst all the mediocrity churned out this year it is one of my faves(the others being Live Free TwiHard, Unforgiven, The French Mistake).
"Frontierland" looked like it might be fun and a SN classic but I was stunned how little the writers did with the idea--it was just so run-of-the-mill. I mean we have something big happening--the guys traveling into the past to meet the original hunter Samuel Colt and we get some obvious flat jokes, a stale supernatural creature and a waste of bringing in Colt. I would have loved seeing the guys working with him but nothing. What should ave been a Major Event or standout seemed like just another ordinary episode.
"Mommy Dearest" felt like a distillation of every well worn SN staple th show has become known for, a boring adversary in Eve, a SN character torturing someone to illustrate how dark the characters have become because of a dire situation. And then the big reveal about the strange behavior of the monsters early in the season and Eve's release is that she was trying to create the perfect monster to take the souls of humans before Crowly did--I don't think I could have come up with anything any less lame than that--. The first half of the season episodes weren't that great and all they had going for them was the hope that the seeds they mainly existed to plant would payoff into something better to justify their existence but instead they are still the same dull outings that they were on first blush. The only interesting part were a few minutes with what amounted to nothing than a brief teaser for tonite's episode--hardly can make up for the rest of the lacklustre hour.
The mytharc this season just wasn't very interesting which wasn't helped by the long breaks between getting back to those relevant threads. And even if these last three episodes, much like Fringe this season, turn out to be great it still won't make up for the bulk of the season being a real aimless underwhelming mess.
I had plenty of issues with S5--too many comedies, too many detours from the arc not effectively portaying Armageddon, too many weak episodes(Swap Meat, Sam Interrupted, Hammer of the Gods, Changing Channels, Curious Case of Dean Winchester, Free to Be You and Me)--but at least it had a focus, more excellent classics(Abandon All Hope, My Bloody Valentine, Children are Our Future, The End), generally stronger episodes(Dark Side of the Moon, Song Remains the Same) and the arc was handled a bit better, the recurring characters were more interesting(the Campbells were duds, Raphael, Balthazaar, Lisa, Ben--all yawn inducing). S6 for me has been consistently bland.
Last edited:
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
So is Sera Gamble doing a mediocre job after taking the reigns of this show?
So is Sera Gamble doing a mediocre job after taking the reigns of this show?
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
Yep. Much like Brannon Braga she might be good at writing individual episodes but as a showrunner she didn't do a very good job this season.
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
Once again, I must disagree. Sera's so far ahead of Brannon Braga it's insulting to her to compare them.
Once again, I must disagree. Sera's so far ahead of Brannon Braga it's insulting to her to compare them.
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
She's overseen a season that was as middling as ENT S2. It isn't insulting just one person's opinion. I haven't been the least bit excited about the show all season because it fell into the same kind of predictable rut as ENT S2--always careful to not be awful but never aspiring to be good or great--blindly grasping at thin air for a reason to exist. It has been spinning its wheels-just more confirmation the show should have ended last year and most definitely didn't deserve a 7th.
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
We must have been watching a different show. Mileage varies.
We must have been watching a different show. Mileage varies.
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
That's cool. Out of curiosity I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this season and which episodes you thought were the highlights thus far. I'm always interested in hearing the other side and re-evaluating my opinion.
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
Quite honestly, I find this season heads and shoulders above last season because it focused on a smaller, more intimate level, which is exactly what Sera said they'd do. I've always loved the more intimate, character based moments so that's why it works so well for me. I found the season premiere, Exile on Main Street, to be fascinating because it really allowed the game to change. Dean was a fundamentally changed man. He'd been allowed to become a man as opposed to a "young man," "young adult," "smart ass guy," etc what have you. He had surpassed his father. Sam's coldness and him just being THERE all of a sudden intrigued me from the first. It threw a lot of the teenybopper, Dean girl Sam girl warring camps, but as a grown viewer I loved it.
Live Free or TwiHard was another standout episode for me. The concept of Sam's lack of a soul and the tease of what was going on in heaven concerning the souls and Balthazar also worked for me. They don't have the budget to properly feature a war in heaven; I was grateful they didn't try. That lack of tension caused season 5 to suffer; its apocalypse suffered from a lack of tension and battles because they couldn't afford to show them. The alpha vamp in TwiHard also intrigued. as did Castiel's continued to be hinted at duplicity.
Another standout episode was "The Third Man," in which Castiel was reintroduced into the brothers' lives after a year long absence. That's the episode where we met Balthazar and found out that something was stirring in heaven. Very humorous moments as Castiel appears instantly for Dean while Sam has been calling and calling. In retrospect--if Castiel did fetch down Samuel and pull up Sam--his not answering Sam makes sense. He knew he was without a soul and didn't want to answer.
Weekend at Bobby's, Jensen's directorial debut and the quest for Crowley's bones.....I laughed until I cried. Bobby and Rufus and Bobby finally telling the neighbor woman he'd come over for dinner after she'd been sprayed by the monster blood in the woodchipper was priceless. Crowley selling his soul for three extra inches below the waist--priceless. Knowing now that Castiel has been involved in keeping Crowley alive, you reexamine it. I like that. Rufus "giving back" the ring after swallowing it--priceless.
I do think that the Campbell cousins fell short. I'll give you that, but once Sam was re-souled I think the season kicked into high gear with the appearance of (red herring) Eve. The episode "Unforgiven" is a particular favorite, where we saw Sam working with Samuel during his soul-free year. Sam using Roy as bait and causing him to get killed, it needed to be demonstrated. What a cold son of a bitch he was, yet it was him. Once again, I think Castiel is somehow responsible for Sam coming back without a soul.
"Caged Heat" was as grim as it gets with Meg and Crowley "dying"...and Sam's mouth full of blood. Another favorite. That was the first episode where I can remember posters at supernatural.tv asking, "Can Castiel be trusted?"
"The French Mistake" may be the funniest SPN episode ever made, and the despair of "And Then There Were None" when Bobby lost Rufus made me tear up. That one hurt.
"My Heart Will Go On," "Frontierland" and "Mommy Dearest" all built up to the Cas reveal. In my mind, the Cas reveal is what ties it all together and makes it work. Also, Sam's time in hell and without soul isn't done being dealt with per the latest Edlund/Gamble interview. No more details lest there be too much spoilage.
It all builds to a more personal apocalypse starting tonight. No "end of the world" stakes. Just hell on Earth for our four core characters, which is what they promised. I can respect if it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I like it.
Quite honestly, I find this season heads and shoulders above last season because it focused on a smaller, more intimate level, which is exactly what Sera said they'd do. I've always loved the more intimate, character based moments so that's why it works so well for me. I found the season premiere, Exile on Main Street, to be fascinating because it really allowed the game to change. Dean was a fundamentally changed man. He'd been allowed to become a man as opposed to a "young man," "young adult," "smart ass guy," etc what have you. He had surpassed his father. Sam's coldness and him just being THERE all of a sudden intrigued me from the first. It threw a lot of the teenybopper, Dean girl Sam girl warring camps, but as a grown viewer I loved it.
Live Free or TwiHard was another standout episode for me. The concept of Sam's lack of a soul and the tease of what was going on in heaven concerning the souls and Balthazar also worked for me. They don't have the budget to properly feature a war in heaven; I was grateful they didn't try. That lack of tension caused season 5 to suffer; its apocalypse suffered from a lack of tension and battles because they couldn't afford to show them. The alpha vamp in TwiHard also intrigued. as did Castiel's continued to be hinted at duplicity.
Another standout episode was "The Third Man," in which Castiel was reintroduced into the brothers' lives after a year long absence. That's the episode where we met Balthazar and found out that something was stirring in heaven. Very humorous moments as Castiel appears instantly for Dean while Sam has been calling and calling. In retrospect--if Castiel did fetch down Samuel and pull up Sam--his not answering Sam makes sense. He knew he was without a soul and didn't want to answer.
Weekend at Bobby's, Jensen's directorial debut and the quest for Crowley's bones.....I laughed until I cried. Bobby and Rufus and Bobby finally telling the neighbor woman he'd come over for dinner after she'd been sprayed by the monster blood in the woodchipper was priceless. Crowley selling his soul for three extra inches below the waist--priceless. Knowing now that Castiel has been involved in keeping Crowley alive, you reexamine it. I like that. Rufus "giving back" the ring after swallowing it--priceless.
I do think that the Campbell cousins fell short. I'll give you that, but once Sam was re-souled I think the season kicked into high gear with the appearance of (red herring) Eve. The episode "Unforgiven" is a particular favorite, where we saw Sam working with Samuel during his soul-free year. Sam using Roy as bait and causing him to get killed, it needed to be demonstrated. What a cold son of a bitch he was, yet it was him. Once again, I think Castiel is somehow responsible for Sam coming back without a soul.
"Caged Heat" was as grim as it gets with Meg and Crowley "dying"...and Sam's mouth full of blood. Another favorite. That was the first episode where I can remember posters at supernatural.tv asking, "Can Castiel be trusted?"
"The French Mistake" may be the funniest SPN episode ever made, and the despair of "And Then There Were None" when Bobby lost Rufus made me tear up. That one hurt.
"My Heart Will Go On," "Frontierland" and "Mommy Dearest" all built up to the Cas reveal. In my mind, the Cas reveal is what ties it all together and makes it work. Also, Sam's time in hell and without soul isn't done being dealt with per the latest Edlund/Gamble interview. No more details lest there be too much spoilage.
It all builds to a more personal apocalypse starting tonight. No "end of the world" stakes. Just hell on Earth for our four core characters, which is what they promised. I can respect if it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I like it.
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
It seems to me that everything "watcher" sees and critiques, everyone else thinks the opposite...
IMO the slowest of the season was the beginning when they were dragging out the Sam's soul approach. BTW, I am still waiting "IF" that "wall" will come down....
It seems to me that everything "watcher" sees and critiques, everyone else thinks the opposite...
IMO the slowest of the season was the beginning when they were dragging out the Sam's soul approach. BTW, I am still waiting "IF" that "wall" will come down....
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
I think my issue is that the season certainly offered up some *potentially* interesting "ideas". I'll give you that each episode for the most part had intriguing elements or teases A lot of the things you mentioned I liked as well
And the return after the winter hiatus gave us episodes like "Like A Virgin" with the kind of predictable plotting SN has falling back on for some time--damsel in distress, guys to the rescue, false jeopardy they are in. Then the Mannequin episode was too disjointed with Dean fiddling with Lisa who I just don't care about. And then there was that frustrating abrupt cliffhanger with Sam collapsing then just as quickly dispatched--I know it wasn't the end of that thread but I just didn't like the jerking around.
I think my issue is that the season certainly offered up some *potentially* interesting "ideas". I'll give you that each episode for the most part had intriguing elements or teases A lot of the things you mentioned I liked as well
The problem was the elements you mention liking about those episodes weren't really the focus they were mere crumbs and the entire episode focused on something else and in other cases like the Alpha Vamp nothing much materialized like we were led to believe.
See this isn't the kind of humor I find funny. I also didn't care for "I love posse"
But Eve was barely on the radar--once freed by the dragons she made a few scant cameos--Eve wasn't an intriguing figure and no effort was made to build her up--I never once thought of her as a threat. And it certainly didn't help that last week's episode's reveal of her big plan seemed underwhelming.
And the return after the winter hiatus gave us episodes like "Like A Virgin" with the kind of predictable plotting SN has falling back on for some time--damsel in distress, guys to the rescue, false jeopardy they are in. Then the Mannequin episode was too disjointed with Dean fiddling with Lisa who I just don't care about. And then there was that frustrating abrupt cliffhanger with Sam collapsing then just as quickly dispatched--I know it wasn't the end of that thread but I just didn't like the jerking around.
Like I mentioned I consider this one of the better episodes as well.
No argument from me and I usually hate these sort of shows.
I thought this was average. I hate the way shows over the last several years just kill off characters just to do so--Samuel, the cousin, Rufus who I felt had so much more to offer. SN can hit you in the emotional plexus like they did with Jo and Ellen last year or John in S2 but I felt nothing here. Then you had a body snatcher humdrum plot that certainly didn't help. Can't agree with you here.
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
Whose heaven is this?
Ken Lay's
Whose heaven is this?
Ken Lay's
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
I generally rather like this season, I don't love it like seasons 4 and 2, but I have only disliked one episode this season (Mannequin, yuck for the most part, but no where near the worst of the worst for SPN). I almost put the season opener on that list (though I really like about 2/3rd of the episode, but it stales when introducing the Campbell's).
ANd unlike season 1, season 3 or season 5. I think its ben consistently good. Something those seasons can't even pretend to be. But I do hate that I haven't utterly loved an episode this season. It's been close several times, but nothing has truly hit it out of the park and usually SPN does manage that at least twice a season (with the exception of season one for em which only did it once).
But I have liked the larger story, more then I generally do with this show. As SPN isn't the strongest at all over reaching plots. I felt this season was one of the most balanced and paced that they have ever done. And I really like the character struggles they have both had. Hell as much as I like Sam I am glad they stuck with that story line as long as they did, most shows wouldn't (in fact I can't remember any show going that long with such a profound change in one of their leads).
I generally rather like this season, I don't love it like seasons 4 and 2, but I have only disliked one episode this season (Mannequin, yuck for the most part, but no where near the worst of the worst for SPN). I almost put the season opener on that list (though I really like about 2/3rd of the episode, but it stales when introducing the Campbell's).
ANd unlike season 1, season 3 or season 5. I think its ben consistently good. Something those seasons can't even pretend to be. But I do hate that I haven't utterly loved an episode this season. It's been close several times, but nothing has truly hit it out of the park and usually SPN does manage that at least twice a season (with the exception of season one for em which only did it once).
But I have liked the larger story, more then I generally do with this show. As SPN isn't the strongest at all over reaching plots. I felt this season was one of the most balanced and paced that they have ever done. And I really like the character struggles they have both had. Hell as much as I like Sam I am glad they stuck with that story line as long as they did, most shows wouldn't (in fact I can't remember any show going that long with such a profound change in one of their leads).
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
Damn, that was depressing. But so true. Free will and enough rope to hang ourselves. Dean's right, though. Crowley's a crossroads demon. Interesting that Dean went into big brother because I said so default mode.
I knew Cas had pulled out Sam. It had to be.
Damn, that was depressing. But so true. Free will and enough rope to hang ourselves. Dean's right, though. Crowley's a crossroads demon. Interesting that Dean went into big brother because I said so default mode.I knew Cas had pulled out Sam. It had to be.
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
This was a good episode--not great. The Dean/Sam/Bobby hunt for Crowley was the least interesting stuff. I enjoyed the filling in of the various blanks surrounding who resurrected Sam, what triggered the civil war, why Crowley and Castiel teamed up. This prong of the mytharc this season was far more interesting than the Eve and as Dean called it "crappy monster hunts" of this season which from my perspective was a waste of time and didn't lead anywhere interesting.
I loved the opening montage of various moments throughout history and the narration by Castiel. Edlund did a great job with creating a very effective mood. I especially loved the pacing of the episode, the wistful somber music played throughout, the intercutting of scenes from last year's finale. The "eternal Tuesday afternoon" that Castiel enjoyed to visit in Heaven had great cinematography with those brighter colors more vivid than usual and the touch of the kite--it was perfect in capturing the simpler quieter times before all hell would break loose.
I also thought the rationale for the two joining forces made a great deal of sense--Crowley wants to be in charge, Raphael's plan would upset that apple cart, Castiel doesn't want Armageddon or Raphael leading Heaven so their interests intersect. I happen to agree with Castiel and I think Dean is a bit naive in condemning Castiel's plan--what would he have them do let Armageddon be on again. Plus the guys have killed tons of monsters so sucking up their souls would be that offensive I would think.
Still the episode didn't hit it out of the park. A B.
This was a good episode--not great. The Dean/Sam/Bobby hunt for Crowley was the least interesting stuff. I enjoyed the filling in of the various blanks surrounding who resurrected Sam, what triggered the civil war, why Crowley and Castiel teamed up. This prong of the mytharc this season was far more interesting than the Eve and as Dean called it "crappy monster hunts" of this season which from my perspective was a waste of time and didn't lead anywhere interesting.
I loved the opening montage of various moments throughout history and the narration by Castiel. Edlund did a great job with creating a very effective mood. I especially loved the pacing of the episode, the wistful somber music played throughout, the intercutting of scenes from last year's finale. The "eternal Tuesday afternoon" that Castiel enjoyed to visit in Heaven had great cinematography with those brighter colors more vivid than usual and the touch of the kite--it was perfect in capturing the simpler quieter times before all hell would break loose.
I also thought the rationale for the two joining forces made a great deal of sense--Crowley wants to be in charge, Raphael's plan would upset that apple cart, Castiel doesn't want Armageddon or Raphael leading Heaven so their interests intersect. I happen to agree with Castiel and I think Dean is a bit naive in condemning Castiel's plan--what would he have them do let Armageddon be on again. Plus the guys have killed tons of monsters so sucking up their souls would be that offensive I would think.
Still the episode didn't hit it out of the park. A B.
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
A grade of "B"? You're getting soft, startrekwatcher.
Besides the fact of Crowley being a nasty crossroads demon, the real issue with Dean is that Cas lied to him. Dean's never going to be copacetic with trusting a demon after Ruby. All angsty slashy innuendo aside, Ackles and Collins do share some incredible chemistry. And I liked Castiel's preference for the autistic man's heaven myself.
And Crowley's new version of hell where you stand on line forever.
How did Kenneth Lay get into heaven? God's a Republican. Frightening. What if God is Scott Walker? yikes.
God did offer Cas help; he put Dean in Cas' path. He was there raking those leaves.....all of them so concerned about disturbing Dean's new life. HIm, Bobby, Sam. Dean would have tried to help him.
See, that's what I like. The real battle is between the four core characters. Yes, the world, can't unleash the monsters from purgatory but it's really about them. About lack of trust, betrayal, and family.
A grade of "B"? You're getting soft, startrekwatcher.
Besides the fact of Crowley being a nasty crossroads demon, the real issue with Dean is that Cas lied to him. Dean's never going to be copacetic with trusting a demon after Ruby. All angsty slashy innuendo aside, Ackles and Collins do share some incredible chemistry. And I liked Castiel's preference for the autistic man's heaven myself.And Crowley's new version of hell where you stand on line forever.
How did Kenneth Lay get into heaven? God's a Republican. Frightening. What if God is Scott Walker? yikes.God did offer Cas help; he put Dean in Cas' path. He was there raking those leaves.....all of them so concerned about disturbing Dean's new life. HIm, Bobby, Sam. Dean would have tried to help him.
See, that's what I like. The real battle is between the four core characters. Yes, the world, can't unleash the monsters from purgatory but it's really about them. About lack of trust, betrayal, and family.
Re: Supernatural 6x20"The Man Who Knew Too Much" spoiler discussion th
I liked this episode a lot. Not only does Misha do a great job as Castiel, with that lost and despairing stare aimed right at the camera, but I loved the idea of Cas listening in, being there but not being seen. I liked seeing heaven and the other angels, and his description of his struggles: "teaching freedom to angels is like teaching poetry to fish."
Lots of interesting ideas. But really it all boils down to friends trying to do the right thing--like Dean selling his soul for Sam's life, like Sam killing Lilith because he thought it would stop the Apocalypse, not start it. I love all this angsty stuff.
I liked this episode a lot. Not only does Misha do a great job as Castiel, with that lost and despairing stare aimed right at the camera, but I loved the idea of Cas listening in, being there but not being seen. I liked seeing heaven and the other angels, and his description of his struggles: "teaching freedom to angels is like teaching poetry to fish."
Lots of interesting ideas. But really it all boils down to friends trying to do the right thing--like Dean selling his soul for Sam's life, like Sam killing Lilith because he thought it would stop the Apocalypse, not start it. I love all this angsty stuff.
Similar threads
- Poll
