When did Star Trek jump the shark?

[MontgomeryScott]

Trek really jumped the shark when it began overstaying it's welcome. I think that occurred with Voyager and Enterprise more than anything. Sure, they had some decent episodes, but they just weren't fresh or interesting enough.

In Hollywood they say that "the last sequel, is the one to lose money." They said it after "Jaws 4," but a there's more than one way to jump a shark.

When Roddebberry left, then the series became an empty franchise; but when he came back it was preachy rather than intriguiing, and I get the feelng he just became a figurehead like Roy Disney, and didn't have any of his original creative staff like Nimoy or the rest.

 

[Nightdiamond]

I'm a DS9 fan, but DS9 definitely at least jumped some dolphins with the Pah Wraith and Prophet angles later on in the show. (Like the series finale)

And the Jadzia returns as Ezri Dax.

Other than that I think DS9 managed to escape it.


TNG-when Q became too nice, Data started dreaming, and Worf was lov'in Troi.


Voy-when they left the spacedock, I mean, when they added the children to it.

 

[Forbin]

It's entirely possible for a show to jump the shark, then return to quality, then jump again, then cycle some more.

 

[22 Stars]

The moment Paramount decided to put two Treks on the air at the same time in DS9 and VOY, and in some markets letting them air at the same time against each other , AND at the same time releasing TNG Movies. This is how you damage a franchise, fracturing the fan base and alienating the casual fan.

Hey, did you see Star Trek last week? Which one?

 

[Mr Silver]

Star Trek XI

Star Trek (XI/2009)

Not this again...

But anyhow I reckon Trek jumped the shark with Seven Of Nine. She was part of everything major in Season 4 of Voyager, had numerous centric episodes and she was basically the Mary-Sue of the series. Any problem the Voyager crew couldn't solve, there was always some Borg secret that Seven Of Nine could bring to the table.

 

[Warped9]

The moment Paramount decided to put two Treks on the air at the same time in DS9 and VOY, and in some markets letting them air at the same time against each other , AND at the same time releasing TNG Movies. This is how you damage a franchise, fracturing the fan base and alienating the casual fan.

Hey, did you see Star Trek last week? Which one?

I could go on about what I like and don't like in Trek, but stepping back from that discussion I have always felt this was a really bad move on Paramount's part. To this day it still feels like they were really trying to milk it for all it was worth.

Looking back over the entire franchise you can see different points that could be loosely called "jumping the shark," but perhaps should be looked at more as turning points. At those moments something changed or in the least changed one's individual perspective and feelings about a particular series or the whole franchise.

In TOS the third season feels different than the previous two, but it's not a complete write-off as many like to say. I think the distinction is more in the sense that stories didn't get quite the same care as they would have in the first two seasons. That said one could also say that the second season isn't like the first because there's an overall change in tone. It isn't huge but it's there.

In the films (while I could critique individual films) the change for me was in TVH. For me that's where the film franchise really flatlined. After that it simply didn't feel the same.

In TNG (which I'm currently revisiting) the change came along in Season 6. I think the "jumping" moment may have been earlier, but here is where it felt tangibly bland and uninspired. Season 7 is proving to be just brutal. And it coincides with Paramount getting DS9 under way at the same time. After that the franchise was never the same for me. After that it mostly became same old, same old only with different faces.

It's also in TNG's Season 6 that I really start to feel a change in the writing overall. It's hard to put my finger on it, but there's something about it I just don't like. And from then on every episode no matter what the series has felt pretty much the same with rare exception.

ST09 isn't a turning point so much as the inevitable result of where the franchise was headed. It's simply the latest offering in a line of deteriorating product.

 

[Chaos Descending]

When the Ship's Shrink got her own chair on the bridge.

 

[Warped9]

When the Ship's Shrink got her own chair on the bridge.

Can't argue with that. One of the things I've never liked about TNG.

 

[BillJ]

I, Borg

I think that was when the morals of the future no longer were relatable to the morals of the present.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I doubt it, there's no question that Seven was a Mary Sue for Jeri Ryan, which she demaned of her beaten-lapdog couch-caster, Braga.

But anyhow I reckon Trek jumped the shark with Seven Of Nine. She was part of everything major in Season 4 of Voyager, had numerous centric episodes and she was basically the Mary-Sue of the series. Any problem the Voyager crew couldn't solve, there was always some Borg secret that Seven Of Nine could bring to the table.

Is that what a "Mary Sue" is?

There is no doubt that Seven was brought on the show to sex it up and yes Ryan dated Braga. Seven did become the center of many episodes ( as did "secondary" characters like Data and Worf in TNG) Not sure thats being a Mary Sue.

 

[Warped9]

^^ I think perhaps he means Mary Worth? David Gerrold referred to the Enterprise in TOS (in his book The World Of Star Trek) as the Mary Worth of the galaxy going around sticking her nose into other people's affairs and solving their problems for them without being asked. I'm not overly familiar with VOY, but I'm not sure 7-of-9 was such a character.

I think 7 could have been seen as the "magic bullet" type of character, always seeming to have the solution?

 

[Gojira]

IMO Star Trek has never jumped the shark.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I doubt it, there's no question that Seven was a Mary Sue for Jeri Ryan, which she demaned of her beaten-lapdog couch-caster, Braga.

But anyhow I reckon Trek jumped the shark with Seven Of Nine. She was part of everything major in Season 4 of Voyager, had numerous centric episodes and she was basically the Mary-Sue of the series. Any problem the Voyager crew couldn't solve, there was always some Borg secret that Seven Of Nine could bring to the table.

Is that what a "Mary Sue" is?

There is no doubt that Seven was brought on the show to sex it up and yes Ryan dated Braga. Seven did become the center of many episodes ( as did "secondary" characters like Data and Worf in TNG) Not sure thats being a Mary Sue.

A "Mary Sue" is generally a fanfic character that a writer vicariously lives through or personally fantasizes about. Such a character comes aboard an established series and takes over as the main character, relegating most of the real main characters to the background or as people to be saved by the new character, IMO.

The term had its origins in a published Star Trek fanfic in the '70s in which "Lieutenant Mary Sue"--a 15-year old Starfleet officer that excelled at everything--came aboard and made Wesley Crusher and Seven of Nine look tame in comparison. The author pretty much was living her own private Star Trek fantasy through Lt. Sue in which she was the star of it all.

EDIT: Some established characters can sometimes be labeled a Mary Sue too if they seem to be the only ones capable of doing anything in a story and all the other characters are just standing around being useless...

 

[Nerys Myk]

Thats what I've heard as well. So I don't see Seven as a Mary Sue. She struck me as trying to fill the role Spock and Data had in other shows. Which was odd because VOY already had Tuvok. Of course Tim Russ in a catsuit wouldnt be quite the same thing.

 

[Anwar]

Seriously, the term Mary Sue has lost its' original meaning.

Seven was no more a Mary Sue than Spock ever was.

 

[Mr Silver]

Seriously, the term Mary Sue has lost its' original meaning.

Seven was no more a Mary Sue than Spock ever was.

Spock was a Breakout Character in a show that was originally meant to be about an All-American Captain. Instead the Alien character became the sole reason some people were watching the show.

Seven, on the other hand, was brought in to attract viewers from the 18-30 Male Demographic. Not only this, but once Seven Of Nine's initial characterization became stale, the production team were constantly trying to find ways to incorporate Seven into a major part of every episode. Much like Season 1 of TNG was sometimes about Wesley saving the day and making everyone else look like fools, as I stated earlier a lot of Voyager's last 4 Seasons had Seven coming out of nowhere and saving the day with some Borg McGuffin.

For those reasons, I find Seven Of Nine as the most obvious 'Mary Sue' of the Trek franchise.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

I'm not an expert on the original series, though I like it, but since I enjoy some of the films, I can't say it "jumped the shark".

For Next-Gen Trek, I think 1989-1999 (TNG Season 3 to DS9 Season 7) was a period when Trek on TV was consistently of high quality, exciting and, dare I say, even relevant. After that, I don't think Trek on TV was as consistently good. VOY and ENT had their moments, but I don't think they were great series like TNG and DS9.

Oh, and if Seven was a Mary Sue, I guess that means that that isn't necessarily a bad thing, since I think she was a great addition to the show.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Seriously, the term Mary Sue has lost its' original meaning.

Seven was no more a Mary Sue than Spock ever was.

Spock was a Breakout Character in a show that was originally meant to be about an All-American Captain. Instead the Alien character became the sole reason some people were watching the show.

Seven, on the other hand, was brought in to attract viewers from the 18-30 Male Demographic. Not only this, but once Seven Of Nine's initial characterization became stale, the production team were constantly trying to find ways to incorporate Seven into a major part of every episode. Much like Season 1 of TNG was sometimes about Wesley saving the day and making everyone else look like fools, as I stated earlier a lot of Voyager's last 4 Seasons had Seven coming out of nowhere and saving the day with some Borg McGuffin.

For those reasons, I find Seven Of Nine as the most obvious 'Mary Sue' of the Trek franchise.

How does that make her a Mary Sue though? A McGuffin perhaps, but not a Mary Sue. Wes is a Mary Sue not because he saved the day but because he was an avatar of " Eugene Wesley "Gene" Roddenberry, Sr who saved the day.

I'm curious, how do you know what the motivations of the creative team was?

 

[Balrog]

Yikes! The OP seems a bit strong about his/her views of Star Trek. I'm surprised they didn't say Trek jumped the shark when Uhura started wearing a red minidress.

I don't think Trek jumped the shark either. It's had its ups and downs though. Season 3 of TOS was rough. TAS won an Emmy. TMP was financially viable, but critically a mess. Trek's trilogy was great which launched TNG and ModernTrek. Later Treks weren't as popular and TNG movies ran hot and cold.

But Trek 2009 was a great success again. It seems we're in another uptick.

 

[Anwar]

Seriously, the term Mary Sue has lost its' original meaning.

Seven was no more a Mary Sue than Spock ever was.

Spock was a Breakout Character in a show that was originally meant to be about an All-American Captain. Instead the Alien character became the sole reason some people were watching the show.

Seven, on the other hand, was brought in to attract viewers from the 18-30 Male Demographic. Not only this, but once Seven Of Nine's initial characterization became stale, the production team were constantly trying to find ways to incorporate Seven into a major part of every episode. Much like Season 1 of TNG was sometimes about Wesley saving the day and making everyone else look like fools, as I stated earlier a lot of Voyager's last 4 Seasons had Seven coming out of nowhere and saving the day with some Borg McGuffin.

For those reasons, I find Seven Of Nine as the most obvious 'Mary Sue' of the Trek franchise.

So if Seven had been part of the show from the beginning, you wouldn't mind?