Did they overdo the amount of aliens in Titan?

[BillJ]

I'll be honest... the very first time I saw the picture of Keru, I thought of the bikers at the Blue Oyster Room from the Police Academy movies. I was disappointed. I would think a gay man from a culture hundreds of light years away, that has differing attitudes towards gay people, would have had a more unique look. YMMV.

well. The good news is, if you're really that bugged, you can always pick up a pencil and draw or write your own. Big old world out there. Lots of variation. I'm sorry if the limited scope of some readers leads them into ugly places...

Wait. No I'm not.

That's their problem, not mine.

Wait... so it's okay if Keru makes someone think of a psychotic lunatic from The Road Warrior, but it's not okay if he makes someone think of a singer or bikers from a gay bar?

Okay...

I really hate when people look for offense where none was meant...

I laugh every time I see that handle bar mustache. I didn't know one of the village people was trill!?!

This was the comment that drew your ire. Nothing about anyone being gay there. Do you even know if the original poster knew anything more about the Village People other than the fact that they are singers?

A poster gets a chuckle about a gay character looking like a real-life performer who may or may not be gay... scandalous!

 

[Geoff Thorne]

A poster gets a chuckle about a gay character looking like a real-life performer who may or may not be gay... scandalous!

Keru is not a joke. The only "joke" being implied here was the gay one. I don't actually care whether or not it bugs you that I took offense to it. not even a little bit. in fact there are many more examples of straight men sporting this look than gay so, again, if you went there for the "humor," there isn't any.

you know where i'm standing on this, proceed accordingly.

or don't.

up to you.

Tell you what: the next pic i put up will be a non-animation-style keru.

i've had it with this crap.

 

[BillJ]

A poster gets a chuckle about a gay character looking like a real-life performer who may or may not be gay... scandalous!

Keru is not a joke. The only "joke" being implied here was the gay one. I don't actually care whether or not it bugs you that I took offense to it. not even a little bit. in fact there are many more examples of straight men sporting this look than gay so, again, if you went there for the "humor," there isn't any.

you know where i'm standing on this, proceed accordingly.

or don't.

up to you.

Tell you what: the next pic i put up will be a non-animation-style keru.

i've had it with this crap.

Sorry Geoff. I just think you took offense at something that was really silly. Like I said before, you trying to ascribe intent to a poster that you don't even know.

 

[Geoff Thorne]

Sorry Geoff. I just think you took offense at something that was really silly. Like I said before, you trying to ascribe intent to a poster that you don't even know.

i used up all my "benefit of the doubt" on this subject decades ago.

I don't do the necessary gymnastics anymore to let this stuff slide.

Are we done here?

 

[BillJ]

Sorry Geoff. I just think you took offense at something that was really silly. Like I said before, you trying to ascribe intent to a poster that you don't even know.

i used up all my "benefit of the doubt on this subject decades ago."

I don't do the necessary gymnastics anymore to let this stuff slide.

Are we done here?

I just hope you're as aggressive with real life injustice as you are with perceived slights on internet message boards.

 

[Corran Horn]

Just to break a little bit of the tension...

I did have a little chuckle when, a long time ago, I posted that the kinda physically imposing, crew-cutted (or short haired, I guess), handlebar-mustached, homosexual Keru might've been perhaps modeled on Andy Mangels himself...and he disagreed.

 

[BillJ]

Just to break a little bit of the tension...

I did have a little chuckle when, a long time ago, I posted that the kinda physically imposing, crew-cutted (or short haired, I guess), handlebar-mustached, homosexual Keru might've been perhaps modeled on Andy Mangels himself...and he disagreed.

How dare you get a chuckle thinking a gay man looks like another gay man!

 

[Geoff Thorne]

Sorry Geoff. I just think you took offense at something that was really silly. Like I said before, you trying to ascribe intent to a poster that you don't even know.

i used up all my "benefit of the doubt on this subject decades ago."

I don't do the necessary gymnastics anymore to let this stuff slide.

Are we done here?

I just hope you're as aggressive with real life injustice as you are with perceived slights on internet message boards.

I dunno... does helping clean up Los Angeles after the riots, helping to put out arson fires with my neighbors, cataloguing video records of war crimes during the Balkan war count?

That's not counting marching, voting and the occasional firm grip on the shoulder of some loud-mouthed bigot who really should know when to shut up.

Are we done now?

 

[BillJ]

...occasional firm grip on the shoulder of some loud-mouthed bigot who really should know when to shut up.

If this is pointed at me, I'm honored. That you are able to deduce so much because someone disagrees with you on a single comment. Kudos.

 

[Geoff Thorne]

...occasional firm grip on the shoulder of some loud-mouthed bigot who really should know when to shut up.

If this is pointed at me, I'm honored. That you are able to deduce so much because someone disagrees with you on a single comment. Kudos.

Don't be honored. It wasn't pointed at you. It's just on the list of answers to your post. Disagree all you like. I don't put up with that crap in real life either, is the point.

 

[vegaslover62]

Personally, I think that there are so many aliens on board the Titan that I find it hard to keep track of them.

 

[JD]

The whole homosexual thing the with Keru's appearance never ever crossed my mind until this thread. I always just thought of him as the kind of tough guy that Geoff mentioned up thread.

 

[Technobuilder]

I think the diversity of the Titan crew is a good thing.

I always figured there were lots of different species around crewing Starfleet ships, but we just never got to see them on screen due to budget constraints.

It was much easier to show a Bajoran, a Klingon, and a Cardassian on-screen, than it was to show a Nasat, a Choblik, and a Pahkwa-thanh.

I always assumed they were there, however Titan made a point of telling us instead that they weren't always there and that diversity while good in theory and ideology isn't exactly in-practice fleetwide or anywhere close to commonplace.

They only real problem I have with the Titan books and the number of alien species is that I don't always have good visual representations of them in my head based on the descriptions. I really wish they'd put more effort into creating images of new characters so that we can get a better idea of their visual distinctions.

Bri'kar for example, I just assumed Rock Monster from Galaxy Quest til I saw some images of Kebron.

 

[Corran Horn]

I really wish they'd put more effort into creating images of new characters so that we can get a better idea of their visual distinctions.

Same here...that's why I was glad Geoff shared his art with us. Helped me out, anyway.

 

[neogothboy74]

I love the diverse crew of Titan. It's one of the things that draws me back again and again; the chance to catch up with old friends, but also a chance to explore even more of that fantastic crew. It makes sense that huge starfleet ships would have many, many characters to explore and in the books it's cool that they are allowing that to be seen on much more realistic level than they could on the tv shows.

It used to really annoy me that so many of the Star Trek crews were human. It was understandable to a point given the nature of television, but it also felt...off. One of the reasons why DS9 was my favorite Trek is it seemed to mix things up a bit more. Kira, Dax, Odo, Quark, Worf, Rom, Nog, Garak - the alien characters seemed to finally outnunber the human characters.

 

[Andy Mangels]

Just to break a little bit of the tension...

I did have a little chuckle when, a long time ago, I posted that the kinda physically imposing, crew-cutted (or short haired, I guess), handlebar-mustached, homosexual Keru might've been perhaps modeled on Andy Mangels himself...and he disagreed.

Well, it would be more applicable if I were (a) physically imposing, which I only mildly am, but am certainly not well over 6" tall (which Keru is described as); (b) if Keru were described as crew-cutted or short-haired, when he's actually described as balding; and (c) if Keru had a handlebar moustache (his is described as large, whereas mine is either a flared handlebar or a flared Imperial/walrus).

On top of that, I've said numerous times that Keru was modeled on my friend, Mark Friedman, seen in the photo below and as has been on my website for ages. The other guy is one of the ship's bartenders, Scot Bishop-Walker.

I actually did some photomanips of Mark in uniform for use with a prospective cover appearance, and one editor (who shall remain nameless) said they didn't expect to see Keru look quite so Jewish.

Look at the photo of me and Mark. Now if I'm "physically imposing," and I barely come up to his chin, what does that say about his size?

And here, for your edification are a couple of those never-before-seen photomanips of Mark in uniform (Mark's beard was a bit heavier than normal) - note that he would also have Trill spots - and a handy moustache chart...

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Love the mustache graphic.

Wow, I'm shocked at the controversy my innocent comment made. I can't help if my mind brings up the VP biker dude. And for the record, I'm very active on startrek.com's forums where I don't tolerate people speaking offensively of others, including homosexuals and have told people to be more respectful when they say intolerant things. If I offended someone, I apologize, but that initial response was kind of harsh and was completely uncalled for, in my opinion as I meant no offense.

I like the diversity on Titan because, irregardless of your views, it challenges your understanding of life and morality. It is, to me, what trek is all about. Over A Torrent Sea is, to me, one if the best trek novels EVER. I can't get enough Titan and would push it for a new series before anything else.

 

[Thestral]

The amount of aliens on Titan is a very good thing and really makes the series stand out. If anything's "overdone" thing it's the sometimes-excessive self-congratulation about how awesome Titan is because they're so much more diverse that the rest of Starfleet. Well, and the incessant harping on how mammals don't trust reptiles in Seize the Fire, but I trust that was more an abberation.

i used up all my "benefit of the doubt" on this subject decades ago.

I don't do the necessary gymnastics anymore to let this stuff slide.

Are we done here?

But there's gotta be better ways to educate people that may be unawares.

 

[j3067]

Here is a link to the thread in the Fan Art forum where Geoff Thorne debuted his Titan drawings...

It seems worth pointing out that there is a questionable "Y-M-C-A" caption appended to the Keru drawing in the thread linked in the quoted post (#71 of this thread). It obviously was not Mr. Thorne's doing, or done with his endorsement, but it could have contributed to this flare up.

The caption is in post #22 on the second page of the linked thread.

 

[SicOne]

Did the establishing in "Taking Wing "of Keru and Hawk having a relationship cause a stir on the BBS? I can't remember that far back. Or was their relationship established in another novel?