TNG alternate timeline question

[TrekkieFroog]

Hello, forgive me if this is an obviously answered question, but how does JJs new Star Trek timeline affect the events of TNG and the other Treks. I get that it completely re writes the TOS history, but TNG was a century later, it might not have been affected.
Forgive me if this is a widely known reason, I am new to Star Trek, I am loving it but wanna know before I actually finish watching it all.
Thanks

 

[JoeZhang]

The JJ universe is an alternative universe so has no impact on the TNG timeline... however the events we saw in TNG could not occur in the same way in the JJ Universe.

 

[TrekkieFroog]

The JJ universe is an alternative universe so has no impact on the TNG timeline... however the events we saw in TNG could not occur in the same way in the JJ Universe.

Thats what I mean, how would they be different in th JJ-verse? If JJs time line continued to the Picard days, would they be the same as they would have been had Nero not got back in time? Know what I mean?

 

[JoeZhang]

The JJ universe is an alternative universe so has no impact on the TNG timeline... however the events we saw in TNG could not occur in the same way in the JJ Universe.

Thats what I mean, how would they be different in th JJ-verse? If JJs time line continued to the Picard days, would they be the same as they would have been had Nero not got back in time? Know what I mean?

Right - well I would guess that it would have to be vastly different - for example, Reunification is based around a plot to invade Vulcan but that planet doesn't exist any-more so that story would have to be different. There are also various other stories that feature Vulcans who more than likely don't exist - voyager and DS9 are the same.

 

[Timo]

We might assume that time in Star Trek is "self-repairing" at least in the sense that even if somebody completely alters the distant past, the same people will eventually be born anyway. If Picard's granddad died aboard the Kelvin, some other helpful bloke provided a suitable dose of genes to ensure that Jean-Luc would emerge to this world looking just as Patrick Stewarty as his original self. Could be due to there being an infinite number of realities to pick from, or whatever.

So we have all our cast members available. What are they lacking? Planet Vulcan, for starters. So that rules out finding the Stone of Gol in "Gambit", and thus probably stops the treasure hunters and pirates from attempting to locate it in the first place: they'd give up hope on most things Vulcan after said homeworld collapsed into another realm. That also stops the Romulans from considering triumphant reunification, so buye bye "Unification" as well.

Apart from this, there's probably relatively little change. JJVerse seems to feature contact between the UFP and the RSE long before "Balance of Terror", but that doesn't preclude the future UFP/RSE interaction from unfolding in pretty much the same way it did in TNG, the Vulcan angle notwithstanding. Klingons are Klingons: they'll pick up all the same fights even if the details are subtly altered. Bigger players like the Borg won't be bothered with details, either.

Despite the life of James T. Kirk being very different in the 23rd century, the Starfleet of the 24th century might end up looking much the same. A few differences in starship design, perhaps, possibly a tad more megalomania in STXI style. But Earth would probably stay just as vulnerable to superalien attack as ever. And the Dominion would still be waiting for the chance to pour through to Alpha as soon as Benjamin Sisko gets born as predestined and opens the Celestial Temple doors for them. And the Caretaker would still hijack the Maquis and the Voyager for a seven-year tour through Delta.

(Of course, that would be very dull, dramatically speaking: who wants to see reruns? So each adventure would actually happen quite differently, just because.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[TrekkieFroog]

Thanks Timo and JoeZhang. I get it, subtle diferences. I didn't think about there being very few Vulcans.

Also, I just realised, Kirk is a different personality. He may not have gone into the nexus and helped Picard defeat Soran, therefore killing the entire Enterprise D crew. (I like the Generations movie a lot)

 

[indolover]

IMO, there is no way to tell. In the Abramsverse, Nero going back in time changes everything. For all we know all of these things could occur in an Abramsverse TNG-era:

- No Romulan contact
- No Borg contact
- Picard is not born in 2305, maybe ten years before or after that, who knows?
- The Klingons and the Federation never sign a peace treaty/alliance
- The Cardassian War (pre-TNG/DS9 era) never happened
- Sisko still discovers the wormhole, but Bajor was never occupied by the Cardassians

As all variables have been changed per Nero creating a new universe, who is to say will happen? it certainly cannot occur exactly as in the "real" universe.

 

[Glitch]

I think the influence of Spock Prime might play a role in how the JJverse proceeds into the 24th century.

 

[Xerxes1979]

V'ger destroys Earth in 2270. Game over.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Thanks Timo and JoeZhang. I get it, subtle diferences. I didn't think about there being very few Vulcans.

Also, I just realised, Kirk is a different personality. He may not have gone into the nexus and helped Picard defeat Soran, therefore killing the entire Enterprise D crew. (I like the Generations movie a lot)

Or he doesn't even save Soran and thus saves the lives of the Ent-D crew plus billions of lives without ever knowing it.

 

[GNDN]

There is no way to know how these changes affect the 24th century. Not until the writers inform us that is.

With the death of so many Vulcans and the destruction of the planet, events will no doubt be altered, it comes down to the degree of change. Being fiction, whatever changes suit a future story will be made as required for the plot.

But consider if there was only a single Vulcan, or visitor to planet Vulcan, or Starfleet crewmember killed in the 'Armada' who had any galactic influence similar to Edith Keeler, then the resulting changes could be profound.

One key individual being alive or dead in the 1930's completely changed the 23rd century. Some of this was speculation, but even Spock seems pretty convinced of the magnitude of change:

GUARDIAN: Your vessel, your beginning, all that you knew is gone.
KIRK: McCoy has somehow changed history.
SCOTT: You mean we're stranded down here?
SPOCK: With no past, no future.
UHURA: Captain, I'm frightened.
KIRK: Earth's not there. At least, not the Earth we know. We're totally alone.

Captain's log, no stardate. For us, time does not exist. McCoy, back somewhere in the past, has effected a change in the course of time. All Earth history has been changed. There is no starship Enterprise.

 

[Shon T'Hara]

V'ger destroys Earth in 2270. Game over.

Yeah, I doubt New Timeline Spock will experience the same connection with V'ger as the original. And even if the Enterprise manages to stop V'ger, there's the Whale Probe a few years later. This is assuming the Doomsday Machine or Space Amoeba don't screw things up first.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

When Kirk takes command of the Enterprise, he is a greenhorn, rather than a seasoned officer.

George Samuel "Sam" Kirk, Jr. never relocates to Deneva, and so the blastoneuron plague spreads to additional planets before it is stopped.

Since the Enterprise (NCC-1701) is only 5 years old at the end of Kirk's 5-year mission, it only needs the sort of minor refits that the Prime Universe Enterprise gets between April and Pike, and between Pike and Kirk. Therefore, it is not sitting in an Earth-orbiting box-dock, completing a multi-year refit, when V'Ger comes looking for its creator.

The Botany Bay is never intercepted, and Khan and other surviving Augments are never rescued, and never get exiled to Ceti Alpha V. Therefore, he is not around when Ceti Alpha VI explodes, or to steal Genesis. Kruge, on the other hand, does manage to do so, and Kirk isn't around to stop him.

Neither is Kirk in any position to rescue Earth (assuming it hasn't already been destroyed) when The Probe comes looking for humpback whales.

 

[Saul]

I'm sure some things won't change such as the nokia ringtone....

But the JJverse seems to imply that destiny brings crews together. Not actual historical events. Things could work in a way that by Picards time things are pretty much back to Normal and Vulcan has another planet etc.

 

[Dukhat]

The real-world answer: By the 24th century, things will be so different as to be completely unrecognizable.

The Star Trek answer: There probably won't be much difference.


Take the mirror universe for example. ENTERPRISE showed that the fundamental differences between that universe and the prime one started around the 20th century, if not before. And yet by the 23rd, we still have duplicates of Kirk, Spock, McCoy, et. al on a duplicate Enterprise in orbit around the same planet that the prime Enterprise is in orbit around. There is absolutely no way in hell that this could ever have happened if the differences were that extreme for that amount of time.

The converse of this, of course, is "City on the Edge of Forever," which gets it absolutely right. Because one single person in the 20th century lived when they should have died, history is changed to the point where at least the Enterprise no longer exists in the 23rd century, but it's also implied that everything is different.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

V'ger destroys Earth in 2270. Game over.

Yeah, I doubt New Timeline Spock will experience the same connection with V'ger as the original. And even if the Enterprise manages to stop V'ger, there's the Whale Probe a few years later. This is assuming the Doomsday Machine or Space Amoeba don't screw things up first.

About that...

Spoiler: comic

In the comics, it's NERO who encounters V'Ger. I wish I was making that up. Anyway I can only assume that Nero's interference could possibly make V'Ger divert away from Earth.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Since Old Spock lives in the new timeline he can orchestrate ways to stop these threats early. Get the parasites before they arrive on Deneva. Meet V'Ger and the Whale probe before they get near Earth. Drop the Botany Bay on a suitable planet and awaken Khan there.

 

[Solariabsg25]

Since Old Spock lives in the new timeline he can orchestrate ways to stop these threats early. Get the parasites before they arrive on Deneva. Meet V'Ger and the Whale probe before they get near Earth. Drop the Botany Bay on a suitable planet and awaken Khan there.

Plus with the added advantage that as the timeline has already been drastically altered by Nero, Spock prime would have no duty to be bound by any Temporal Prime Directive as he cannot pollute a timeline that no longer exists.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ The original timeline does still exist. Spock Prime can't reach it anymore, though.

 

[TrekkieFroog]

But the JJverse seems to imply that destiny brings crews together. Not actual historical events. Things could work in a way that by Picards time things are pretty much back to Normal and Vulcan has another planet etc.

I like this theory.

I'd like to see a alt. timeline picard/riker movie one day, after they've done a few alt. Timeline kirk/spock movies.
It could be different, but still have the original crew, just with different backstories.

I guess there is a million different ways it could all work out in this new timeline.