Babylon 5 viewing order

[JoeD80]

Patricia Tallman's agent said "we pass" as a negotiating tactic but WB didn't want Tallman because Joe *did* want Tallman so WB just took "we pass" as the final word. Studio politics.

Johnny Sekka did have health problems and he had a hard time making it through a full shooting day (generally 12 hours) so there were concerns about whether he could make it through a full season of shooting.

Tamlyn Tomita re-looped her dialogue to "soften" it at studio request and then was thought to not really have chemistry with the rest of the cast. Her original performance is on the TNT re-release special edition. She did go on to act in The Joy Luck Club film shortly after the pilot.

 

[Triple-F]

Patricia Tallman's agent said "we pass" as a negotiating tactic but WB didn't want Tallman because Joe *did* want Tallman so WB just took "we pass" as the final word. Studio politics.

Why on earth would Warner bounce Tallman because jms wanted her in the show.
Besides (emphasis added by me)
http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-4301

RE: Pat Tallman and Lyta...after the pilot, we made an offer to Pat for the series. This is a matter of record. Pat can verify this. (Which right there puts the lie to the statement that WB didn't want her in the series; we *offered* her the series. We couldn't have made that offer if WB didn't want her there. Pure and simple.) What happened thereafter was a comedy of errors, with WB playing tough-guy with *all* the actors agents, and on the other side Pat getting some bad advice from a manager just brought on (and subsequently let go)...so that the deadline passed for an acceptance, and we had to move on. Pat has said this at cons and online many times over the last several years, long before we ever contacted her again about doing the show, so there's no need to take my word for this.

 

[Distorted Humor]

For those who where wondering if I liked it too much...

I watched Believers and also Survivors. And....Believers sucked except for the Susan I. bits, and Survivors was surprisingly boring.

 

[Jan]

Both JoeD80 and Triple-F are correct. WB wanted somebody with more acting (rather than stunt) credits and so, when Pat's new manager came in with high salary demands because it was known that JMS wanted her in particular for that role, there came an impasse. The manager pulled the "We pass" card while JMS was out of town and away from the negotiations so WB accepted the pass.

When a studio isn't sure it wants a particular actor, they can always play the salary game. And do, as JMS demonstrated happened at a later time on Crusade.

Jan

 

[DigificWriter]

I'm watching The Gathering right now, and, as it turns out, I was overthinking things too much, as it actually flows much better on the heels of ItB than I was expecting it to, even with the differences in Delenn's makeup and characterization, which aren't actually as jarring as I thought they would be. In fact, the different makeup actually serves a pretty helpful purpose, since it hides Delenn's expression(s) and emotion(s) when she lies to Sinclair about never having seen a Vorlon before.
The narrative flow of the story is also helped by the additional scenes that were added to the 'special edition' cut of the story, since they cut down on the amount of 'choppiness' and serve to help better introduce (or re-introduce) certain characters.

While we're on the subject of differences in appearance, I noticed that, in addition to a more ostentatious and sumptous-looking outfit, Londo's 'hair fan' is bigger than it is during the Earth-Minbari War portions of ItB, which is kind of neat because it works as a subtle little nuanced reflection of his increase in stature and prestige. The change in appearance also reflects nicely on the more over-the-top and frivolous nature of his personality and characterization in TG and the early part of the series proper in comparison to his personality and characterization as demonstrated during the majority of ItB.

 

[Distorted Humor]

I'm watching The Gathering right now, and, as it turns out, I was overthinking things too much, as it actually flows much better on the heels of ItB than I was expecting it to, even with the differences in Delenn's makeup and characterization, which aren't actually as jarring as I thought they would be. In fact, the different makeup actually serves a pretty helpful purpose, since it hides Delenn's expression(s) and emotion(s) when she lies to Sinclair about never having seen a Vorlon before.
The narrative flow of the story is also helped by the additional scenes that were added to the 'special edition' cut of the story, since they cut down on the amount of 'choppiness' and serve to help better introduce (or re-introduce) certain characters.

While we're on the subject of differences in appearance, I noticed that, in addition to a more ostentatious and sumptous-looking outfit, Londo's 'hair fan' is bigger than it is during the Earth-Minbari War portions of ItB, which is kind of neat because it works as a subtle little nuanced reflection of his increase in stature and prestige. The change in appearance also reflects nicely on the more over-the-top and frivolous nature of his personality and characterization in TG and the early part of the series proper in comparison to his personality and characterization as demonstrated during the majority of ItB.

SPOILERS!!!

(Covers eyes)

 

[hmbnimbus]

I'm rewatching at the moment, and I suppose out of a need for a "happy" ending, I intend to keep "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars" as the last episode.

First time I watched that was over fifteen years ago, as a kid, and... well.... I always loved the ending. My opinion, of course, but chronologically and thematically it just kinda "fits" for what I see as the story of Babylon 5.

 

[DigificWriter]

I'm watching The Gathering right now, and, as it turns out, I was overthinking things too much, as it actually flows much better on the heels of ItB than I was expecting it to, even with the differences in Delenn's makeup and characterization, which aren't actually as jarring as I thought they would be. In fact, the different makeup actually serves a pretty helpful purpose, since it hides Delenn's expression(s) and emotion(s) when she lies to Sinclair about never having seen a Vorlon before.
The narrative flow of the story is also helped by the additional scenes that were added to the 'special edition' cut of the story, since they cut down on the amount of 'choppiness' and serve to help better introduce (or re-introduce) certain characters.

While we're on the subject of differences in appearance, I noticed that, in addition to a more ostentatious and sumptous-looking outfit, Londo's 'hair fan' is bigger than it is during the Earth-Minbari War portions of ItB, which is kind of neat because it works as a subtle little nuanced reflection of his increase in stature and prestige. The change in appearance also reflects nicely on the more over-the-top and frivolous nature of his personality and characterization in TG and the early part of the series proper in comparison to his personality and characterization as demonstrated during the majority of ItB.

SPOILERS!!!

(Covers eyes)

I didn't think I spoiled anything, but if I did, I apologize.

 

[Distorted Humor]

Just saw "Lies" and stopped there....

will have to be careful looking at this thread...

Edit: it is ok and not that big of a spoiler, all things considered. Sorry I interrupted a good thread

 

[Lindley]

I didn't think I spoiled anything, but if I did, I apologize.

Probably best just not to talk about ItB here yet. You may have watched it first, but many don't.

 

[DigificWriter]

DH and Lindley: I was deliberately trying to be as spoiler-free as possible in discussing ItB and The Gathering, and, as noted, did not intend to inadvertently spoil anything. In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have assumed that noting that ItB involved the backstory E/M War was something that was commonly known and wouldn't be considered a spoiler.

DH: You don't have to apologize for objecting to what you saw as spoilers; it's good for those of us who are familiar with B5 to know when we inadvertently tread into spoiler territory.

JOOC, how far along have you gotten in your viewing? Your last post mentioned "Lies", by which I'm assuming you meant S2's "There All the Honor Lies". If you are indeed that far along, then 'color me impressed', since it hasn't been that long since you first started this thread.

 

[Distorted Humor]

JOOC, how far along have you gotten in your viewing? Your last post mentioned "Lies", by which I'm assuming you meant S2's "There All the Honor Lies". If you are indeed that far along, then 'color me impressed', since it hasn't been that long since you first started this thread.

The Lies is "when she lies to Sinclair" and that when I stopped viewing your message as that enters spoiler country

I am though Survivors, though tonight I might get another major block of watching done tonight. I didn't much care for believers (The Susan I. Bit was the only thing that kept me from stopping watching that episode), and Survivors was only somewhat good in the sense of seeing someone fall off the wagon.

I kinda hope to finish though "Grail" tonight. I been Warned that TKO might not be the best...

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Thanks for the clarification. I again apologize for treading into spoiler territory, because I was making a conscious effort not to do so, and I ultimately failed in that attempt.

 

[Reverend]

^Maybe it'd be a better idea to start your own thread if you'd like to record your impressions as you do a watch through of your own. Trying to keep pace with DH probably isn't a good idea, especially if you've already seen the show.

 

[Distorted Humor]

^ Thanks for the clarification. I again apologize for treading into spoiler territory, because I was making a conscious effort not to do so, and I ultimately failed in that attempt.

don't worry, I was able to see it coming and blink. The fact that a diplomat does not tell the truth all the time is not a spoiler

 

[Distorted Humor]

Mods, forgive for me to double post -- But I must say this.

Signs and Portents was freaking amazing.

 

[Snatcher42]

Freaking amazing for a first season, or freaking amazing period? Because indeed it is very good, but the show still gets much much better!

 

[Distorted Humor]

Freaking amazing for a first season, or freaking amazing period? Because indeed it is very good, but the show still gets much much better!

For a first season, and just darn good SF.

 

[DigificWriter]

I'm rewatching Midnight on the Firing Line, and this time, to avoid even the possibility of derailing the thread, I'm putting the rest of this post in spoiler tags.

Spoiler: Midnight on the Firing Line

As previously noted, I'm watching this episode as a follow-up to both In the Beginning and The Gathering, and the narrative flow works pretty well, even with the significant casting differences between it and TG.

There's no real initial introduction to Ivanova's character, which is a little bit jarring since she's not in TG and is only barely in ItB, resulting in a situation where it might take a second or two to remember who she is, but this is a fairly minor issue and isn't, in the end, detrimental to the story.

There's also some neat symmetry in the episode in terms of characterization, especially in terms of G'Kar's character and the Narn's role in the galaxy.

Having said all of that, though, it wouldn't be all that detrimental to things for one to skip TG entirely and simply go from ItB to MotFL directly.

 

[Distorted Humor]

Signs and Portents thoughts from a first time watcher

I really like it that they assume that the viewer is not a idiot. It is also very well written and produced. There are three plot lines so its very thickly textured, with all of them coming together near the end.

I am still absorbing a lot of what happened.

1) "Shadows" seem to be bad news, and they have a powerful ship(s) to boot.
2) The older races seem to be aware of what they are, the younger races less so.
3) Since Mr. Shadow did not visit Sinclair and ask him the question, are the Vorlons protecting humanity? (When Kosh says "Do not go near them" and has a fight off screen)
4) Lots of CGI shots, Almost felt like a two parter as I am sure they pulled a lot of stops getting this episode finished.
5) funny how it works, Kosh has done a lot of bad things, but you get the sense he not the "Bad guy" while the shadow guy does a lot of good things, yet you know in your gut he evil as heck. Good writing, a lot of series would fail that test.
6) The Narn answer was one of two things A) too evil as it would be Genocide or B) not ambitious enough. I think B is the answer.
7) Lando owes them big, somehow I don't think good will come of it.
8) I remember that Triangle on a Mambari head before, the male membari head had one when he said Sinclair must be eliminated if he remembers.
9) It was a nice touch to point out after all the adventure and space battles, that someone on the B5 team died.
10) noticed this before, but bigger hair= Higher status among the centari<sp> males I assume.