6x01 The Impossible Astronaut (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!!)

[Alidar Jarok]

I thought that was very interesting what you said about the diner. It didn't even register with me but of course I've only been to diners that look like this, here in Europe, and it never really occurred to me that they could look different from their American counterparts.

Yeah, those are an American "themed" diner, not an American "replication" of a diner. My grandma lives in a very southern part of Georgia, and I've been to some great old diners, from the 50's, 60's and new ones all over there. They aren't anything like was shown in tonight's ep, that was "done up" to look like an American theme, but just way overblown. We do have some like that here I suppose, but those are mostly for the tourists heh. Real diners aren't like that.

The diner seemed fine. I've been to places like that. The wide open space in Utah was cool to me, even as an American, since I've never been there. But it just strikes me as the kind of place you can't film in the UK. The stetson is just the Doctor being the Doctor, imo.

The only thing that bugged me was the six shooter, which did seem to be overly cliched.

However I am very bored with all the time tricks. The start with the Doctor dying was pointless, it doesn't add to the tension as you know they'll get round it anyway. I'd rather the Doctor stumbles into these things rather than having it all set up like this though at least this time the Doctor doesn't know what's going on. In the same way I'm not keen on Moffat saying he did the split to have more event episodes. Doctor Who for me should be exploring new places every story with at most a loose arc connecting the series.

While I normally agree and I think most episodes will still be the Doctor goes somewhere and stumbles into an adventure, I'll admit I'm a sucker for an epic adventure that's planned. There's some bigger plan created by a dead guy and everyone has to figure it out.

Anyway, quick comment on why I found the Silents to be cool. Essentially, it's the idea that they're already here and have always been here. They live in ancient tunnels, but nobody notices them. They're out on the streets just like everyone else. But, because they get forgotten right away, nobody knows about them. It's the ultimate make you scared in the dark bad guy because you're always looking over your shoulder.

 

[chardman]

Also. Future The Doctor walked open-eyed to his death after inviting his friends to watch. It was more pre-arranged than pre-destiny. Others have mentioned analogies to the Easter Story, but being ignorant to such things I am reminded of Aslan and the Stone Table.

The Stone Table will crack. Mark my words...

...maybe even cause a crack in time...

I think this is significant in a number of ways. Because I think that the crack in time was a symptom of something going very wrong during Ten's regeneration into Eleven. I'm thinking that the crack, and the notion of two dimensions intruding on one another has a far greater significance than anyone here has imagined.

I suspect that Eleven's death in the series premiere is a correction of something bad that's resulted from one dimension leaking into another. Specifically, that our dimension somehow ended up with two Elevens, one intended for this universe, and one for the other parallel universe. (A universe that no longer exists, thanks to that whole regenerating reality via the Pandorica.) The result is two independently functioning and independently fated Elevens in the same universe, when there should only be one. And in typical Doctor Who fashion, this represents a potentially reality threatening paradox.

The Elevens eventually learn of the other's existence, and realize that one of them has to go if the universe is to survive. And thus at an arranged place and time, stetson-wearing Eleven selflessly offered himself to spacesuit-wearing Eleven, and died for the greater good. And because their fates were always separate, the remaining Eleven won't necessarily suffer the same fate as his extra-dimensional counterpart.

Thus: Eleven really did die and fail to regenerate, but another equally genuine Eleven also survived the ordeal, and his fate is completely different.

All the benefits of a reset with no actual reset.

 

[The Doctor]

Its very striking to compare the difference in tone between 'Impossible Astronaut' and early Tennant. After watching the premiere, I put 'School Reunion' on due to the Liz Sladen appearance. The jokey, tongue-in-cheek, feel of the show was almost entirely lost in this grim and disturbing premiere. The killing of The Doctor was brutal and stark and the feel of The Silents was extremely creepy: I suspect that many children were genuinely frightened by them.

I'm with Malikai, the whole affair seemed off somehow. Not to say that it wasn't enjoyable but it didn't feel like Who to me. I'm not a huge fan of River or her storyline, so bringing it front-and-center didn't help matters much. I did like that The Doctor gave River a serious dressing-down: "Trust you? Please." Damn right.

I'll reserve grading until Part II.

Edit: nice theory, chardman!

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Anyway, quick comment on why I found the Silents to be cool. Essentially, it's the idea that they're already here and have always been here. They live in ancient tunnels, but nobody notices them. They're out on the streets just like everyone else. But, because they get forgotten right away, nobody knows about them. It's the ultimate make you scared in the dark bad guy because you're always looking over your shoulder.

Agreed. I think it's a fantastic idea for a monster. There are dozens of different ways to use them and they have the potential to be brought back indefinitely.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Why was it so important for Amy, right at the end there, to tell the Doctor that she was pregnant? I didn't get why the urgency to divulge that info.

Moffat had said that she had lines, in the first episode, that would seem like throwaway lines, but turn out to be very important later in the series. Perhaps this was the scene he was referring to. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Or perhaps stating twice in the diner about the Doctor being dead - seemingly stating the obvious, but in a very deliberate way...

I think this is much more likely because of the nonchalant way Amy says it as oppose to the pregnancy moment which was very blantant.

 

[BlastHardcheese]

I've been thinking about all the assumptions people have made so far about what we've seen of the trailers and the first episode.

How do we know the tall grey aliens whom nobody can remember once they look away.. are the "Silence" or "Silents"? I've been searching for a link to a quote from Moffat or someone else confirming these aliens are indeed the Silents, but have had no luck so far.

It makes no sense to me otherwise that they'd take such a big step down from trying to nuke the Universe, to simply controlling the Earth.

Unless they knew the Doctor would successfully reboot the universe and this would allow them to enter our reality where before they were unable to...

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Also. Future The Doctor walked open-eyed to his death after inviting his friends to watch. It was more pre-arranged than pre-destiny. Others have mentioned analogies to the Easter Story, but being ignorant to such things I am reminded of Aslan and the Stone Table.

Which is a Christian analogy itself.

Anyway, quick comment on why I found the Silents to be cool. Essentially, it's the idea that they're already here and have always been here. They live in ancient tunnels, but nobody notices them. They're out on the streets just like everyone else. But, because they get forgotten right away, nobody knows about them. It's the ultimate make you scared in the dark bad guy because you're always looking over your shoulder.

I completely agree and that's exactly the point Moffat was trying to get across as evidenced in Confidential. I imagine they'll be playing up the fear of lost memories in the next episode.

 

[Saul]

Good episode, it was different, dark, funny...in a word, "refreshing". Not americanized but certainly a reintroduction of the Doctor through the eyes of Romo.

I think it is scary to have Monsters that people can't remember because you're constantly wanting the heroes to get the hell out of where they are, but as soon as they turn to run they've forgotten and their doom gets closer. As a viewer it's unnerving

I guess my only complaint is that while watching the episode I knew it wasn't going to satisfy any of the questions it was raising in my mind and that i would have to wait a week more.

 

[Brent]

As similar in function as the Silents are to the Weeping Angels, I do like the Silents. I think its an idea that hasn't been used before. To look at something, and then when you look away you completely forget about it. That is a very creepy thing. So it may be similar, but I like it.

 

[Jax]

So 6.5 million viewers and 37% of the entire TV audience but expect finals to end somewhere above 7 million minimum. The hot weather didn't help of course but I expect the repeat viewings to be up and the I player viewings to be very high

The highest show of the day was Britain's Got Talent on ITV1 taking the top slot with 9.5 million

Up against Doctor Who, March of the Dinosaurs had an average audience of just 1.3 million watching

Doctor Who's lead in show scored 1.9 million

Doctor Who is just another show on the airways, its lost its shine and too many people prefer to watch brain dead reality BUT its far far from dead.

 

[Brent]

I just said this in another thread, but we knew the season opener would be good for ratings, it was promoted well. The real question is how does next week compare, and then the next week... do all those people come back and continue to watch it. I'd like to know what the BBC America ratings are also.

 

[The Wormhole]

Oh and that woman in the White House's bathroom made a comment about the Silence looking like something from Star Trek. Just how many people were aware of Star Trek in 1969? Yeah, I know someone would have been, but I somehow doubt someone back then would automatically think of Star Trek upon seeing an alien.

Dude, TOS finished in '69, and had the head that was used, iirc, in 'The Corbomite Manoeuvre', which it did bear a resemblance to.

Star Trek TOS was cancelled due to low ratings, meaning mot many people were watching it. Star Trek wasn't at the forefront of pop culture like it is today in 1969, so I find it hard to believe that a random person would automatically think of Star Trek upon seeing an alien.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

There were three television stations. People certainly knew it existed even if they had no interest in watching it. It was the only pure sci fi show on at the time as well. I suppose you could have seen something like that in The Outer Limits, but that was canceled many years earlier. It's really the only logical thing to think of when you'd see an alien.

 

[Jax]

Star Trek TOS was cancelled due to low ratings, meaning mot many people were watching it. Star Trek wasn't at the forefront of pop culture like it is today in 1969, so I find it hard to believe that a random person would automatically think of Star Trek upon seeing an alien.

First of all talk about wanting to "nitpick", "a random person would automatically think of Star Trek upon seeing an alien". please.

Second, more people watched TV back then so actually Star Trek in 1966-1969 would be massive today and the ratings were higher than originally reported back then.

Third it was just a nod for todays TV viewing audience.

 

[The Wormhole]

There were three television stations. People certainly knew it existed even if they had no interest in watching it. It was the only pure sci fi show on at the time as well. I suppose you could have seen something like that in The Outer Limits, but that was canceled many years earlier. It's really the only logical thing to think of when you'd see an alien.

There were sci-fi movies back then. It's possible to asociate an alien with one of those.

Yeah, I know, random 1960s B-movie doesn't quite have the name recognition among today's audience as Star Trek, but whatever.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

It's a minor point either way. Maybe she was a Star Trek fan or had a relative that was a Star Trek fan. If every person that sees the aliens makes the same Star Trek reference, then it might be a valid (although nitpicky) complaint.

 

[DAK]

Thinking further on the whole 'death' thing: if this really were the Doctor's once and final end, and he were calling his friends around him - would he pick just Amy, Rory and River? Given their timescales, Sarah Jane is still alive (only in the Whoniverse, sadly) as would be people like Jo, Donna and Wilf, Ace, and who knows who else. River and Jack are capable of enough time travel to turn up any time. Even Rose seems able to make it through from an alternate universe when needed.

I was thinking about that too, plus that Doctor being 200 years older, surely he had other companions since Amy and Rory?

But the Doctor only summons these three and the Ex FBI bloke. Which suggests to me that his death is specifically tied to these events and he needs them in particular. Increases my conviction that they're not working on the principle that they can leave him dead and reckpn they've got 200 years of his life to work with. (overlooking the fact that he's still Matt Smith in 200 years)

Which hopefully means Eleven has a nice long life!

River felt sick as well - does that mean she's pregnant too?

Well, the "I'm quite a screamer" line could be a reference to some horizontal boogie she and the Doctor did in the recent past...

Is killing the Doctor really a pointless trick? Remember, this is a Doctor 200 years older than "our" Doctor - its possible there is no reset button at the end of this, and that we have witnessed the Doctor's last incarnation - albeit with 200 years of fun left to had.

That would make Eleven the last incarnation, which I doubt will be the case.

Here ya go DAK

Oh YUM!!! Thank you!

And now you can own your own copy. Seriously.

YES!!! There IS an Easter Bunny!!! Thank you thank you oh thank you!!!

I think this is significant in a number of ways. Because I think that the crack in time was a symptom of something going very wrong during Ten's regeneration into Eleven. I'm thinking that the crack, and the notion of two dimensions intruding on one another has a far greater significance than anyone here has imagined.

I suspect that Eleven's death in the series premiere is a correction of something bad that's resulted from one dimension leaking into another. Specifically, that our dimension somehow ended up with two Elevens, one intended for this universe, and one for the other parallel universe. (A universe that no longer exists, thanks to that whole regenerating reality via the Pandorica.) The result is two independently functioning and independently fated Elevens in the same universe, when there should only be one. And in typical Doctor Who fashion, this represents a potentially reality threatening paradox.

The Elevens eventually learn of the other's existence, and realize that one of them has to go if the universe is to survive. And thus at an arranged place and time, stetson-wearing Eleven selflessly offered himself to spacesuit-wearing Eleven, and died for the greater good. And because their fates were always separate, the remaining Eleven won't necessarily suffer the same fate as his extra-dimensional counterpart.

Thus: Eleven really did die and fail to regenerate, but another equally genuine Eleven also survived the ordeal, and his fate is completely different.

All the benefits of a reset with no actual reset.

Very interesting! Maybe the other Eleven is the one we see next week with the long hair and beard? Maybe he's the one that didn't escape the Pandorica right away, but was trapped in there for eons? We never did find out how he got out of there originally to let his younger self out.

 

[Whofan]

^Didn't Rory use the screwdriver given to him by the Fez/Mop Doctor who was from the Museum?

 

[Sci]

Its very striking to compare the difference in tone between 'Impossible Astronaut' and early Tennant. After watching the premiere, I put 'School Reunion' on due to the Liz Sladen appearance. The jokey, tongue-in-cheek, feel of the show was almost entirely lost in this grim and disturbing premiere.

I don't think that's a meaningful comparison. Doctor Who has always had a mixture of dramatic and tongue-in-cheek episodes, and episodes that mixed both. For every "The Shakespeare Code," there was also a "Dalek" or "Human Nature." Hell, just last season, we went from the dramatic "Vincent and the Doctor" to the hilarious "The Lodger" in just one week.

 

[Samurai8472]

This deems repeating but what happens to the future doctor's TARDIS?