Bryan Singer: Why 'Superman Returns' Didn't Work

[Dream]

Nothing is wrong with a vague continuity except that the film clearly references and expects some of it's audience to know that it is a continuation of "Superman II". The fact that Singer didn't right off acknowledge this in his press junkets bothered me.

I never liked that SR was the vague sequel, which was too confusing. I think it should have been a reboot. Let it succeed or fail on it's own terms. You don't see Nolan or Abrams trying to do sequels to the old movies, they did something completely different which is why their Batman/Trek movies succeeded so much.

I can't stop shaking my head at how painfully awkward this is.

What are you talking about? That scene was awesome!

Seriously, people remember the Donner flicks so fondly was because they were the first decent superhero movies. They weren't perfect but they are better then some of the comic movies released today.

 

[Too Much Fun]

What version of Superman II have you seen?

I can't stop shaking my head at how painfully awkward this is.

I didn't find that part awkward at all. Okay, Superman lifting Zod up looks a bit fake, but I don't care because the scene is so fun. I love the exasperation in Zod's voice when he says, "FINALLY" after spending the whole movie rambling on and on about how much he wants Superman to kneel before him, and the wacky sound he makes when Superman crushes his hand is hilarious.

I assume you're asking me if I've seen "The Donner Cut" when you ask me which version I've seen? I've only seen the movie on TV and on DVD. I don't know if those two versions are exactly the same, because I heard something about an 'extended version' being on TV once.

Another thing about "Superman II" and "Superman Returns" I want to mention is how one of the virtues of the former is how well it works as a family movie. My parents watched it not long ago and were surprised when I told them how much I love it because my mom thought it was obviously "for children". My dad kind of mockingly said, "Don't you know he's a child?".

I watched "Superman Returns" with some cousins as a family outing and when it was over, none of them had much of anything to say, except that the guy playing Superman was handsome. In fact, that's the only discussion I've ever heard about it (outside of the Internet).

I was with a group of people in the summer of 2006 and since I love talking about movies, I was excited when someone brought "Superman Returns" up. In the end, however, there wasn't much conversation beyond some of the girls agreeing about how hot Brandon Routh was .

One of my cousins did also say she thought Superman's vulnerability (being rejected by Lois, going to the hospital, etc.) made the movie feel 'more human' than "Superman II", but that's faint praise at best and as far as I'm concerned, a bit of a stretch.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

Again, it was the 80's. Totally different time. Most stuff from that era is gonna look painfully awkward. Ladyhawk anyone? Donner's next film after that. So yeah, just something you got to keep in mind when revisiting those films.

 

[Dream]

Again, it was the 80's. Totally different time. Most stuff from that era is gonna look painfully awkward.

Yeah, the first two Superman movies are a little dated. But they are still infinitely better than all the comic movies that came before them. The Donner flicks hold up pretty well.

The music is great, John Williams' Superman score is still timeless.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Superman II is fun but it's a tonally clumsy assembly of material shot by Donner and Lester, with Lester's ironic sensibility grafted onto a story that he had little input into and it doesn't entirely work. It's a good, light movie full of forgettable incident, and not half the film that the first Superman was.

Yeah, I'd say that the Donner film and the Singer film are my first and second favorites, with Lester in third place.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

I think you meant the other way around because you pluralized Singer's film.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Superman II is fun but it's a tonally clumsy assembly of material shot by Donner and Lester, with Lester's ironic sensibility grafted onto a story that he had little input into and it doesn't entirely work. It's a good, light movie full of forgettable incident, and not half the film that the first Superman was.

You and I just can't agree on anything these days, can we? I still think "Superman II" is an example of a sequel that's better than the original, even if it is the work of two different directors clumsily welded together, rather than the result of one director's focused vision.

As cool as "Superman" is and as entertaining as Hackman's Luthor was on his own (not counting his wacky sidekicks), the earth spinning nonsense ruins it for me, and Zod was just cooler. I also think the subplot of Lois finding out Superman's identity and him trying to give it up to be with her gives the movie some added poignancy that the first didn't have, so the movie isn't just a bunch of wacky hijinx with the Kryptonian villains.

Another thing, "forgettable incident" is really underselling it. Sarah Douglas as the sexy-as-hell ice queen Ursa terrorizing astronauts on the moon and a small American town with Zod and Non is some terrifically memorable and entertaining cinema. You get all the Hackman-as-Luthor charm of the first one, plus a genuinely touching Lois/Clark story line, plus those three villains hamming it up delightfully. Doesn't get any better than that.

 

[JarodRussell]

Another thing, "forgettable incident" is really underselling it. Sarah Douglas as the sexy-as-hell ice queen Ursa terrorizing astronauts on the moon and a small American town with Zod and Non is some terrifically memorable and entertaining cinema.

I personally found it pretty awkward in laughable, even back then. But yeah, it's memorable.

 

[Gaith]

You get all the Hackman-as-Luthor charm of the first one, plus a genuinely touching Lois/Clark story line, plus those three villains hamming it up delightfully. Doesn't get any better than that.

Except when, you know, you actually get a good movie.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

I would say Singer is being too hard on himself, and to the extent that he's criticizing himself, he's doing it on the wrong end. I don't think act 1 needed to be tightened up but the final hour could use some tightening. As for his romantic take on the subject matter, I think that was completely appropriate and worked.

Where the movie was weak was that he just needed to develop the McGuffin a little better. At one point, Lex Luthor makes a reference to using Kryptonian vehicles & weapons. I think that was a real missed opportunity to make the new continent a more potent threat, rather than the old stand-by of Kryptonite.

As for Kate Bosworth as Lois Lane, I think she did a good job. However, I've heard that Keri Russell was also up for the role. I suspect she would have been a better choice. She would have better been able to bring a little more Margot Kidder spunk to the part while still being an instantly beloved ingenue.

 

[JarodRussell]

The problem is the whole "Returns" angle wasn't even needed for the movie. You can cut the first act and then it's just an ordinary day for Superman/Clark with Lex Luthor planning evil things, planes crashing, earthquakes, etc... . That Lois fell in love with another guy and got pregnant could still have happened. Luthors could have still aquired the crystals somehow.

 

[Mr Light]

I spent the whole movie waiting for Luthor to bust out the Kryptonian battle suits for the end of the movie. That was a disappointment.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ You're not the only one

 

[Gojira]

The problem is the whole "Returns" angle wasn't even needed for the movie. You can cut the first act and then it's just an ordinary day for Superman/Clark with Lex Luthor planning evil things, planes crashing, earthquakes, etc... . That Lois fell in love with another guy and got pregnant could still have happened. Luthors could have still aquired the crystals somehow.

I think the title Superman Returns was more about the fact that we hadn't seen a Superman movie in decades.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ The title definitely was a play on words/situation.

 

[Trekker4747]

I personally loved the boat rescue moment. I thought it was iconic in every way...the way it was shot, the music, Routh's performance. Love it.

The boat sequence to me was great too.

It's alway been my understanding that on its own merit Superman Returns didn't do too bad just that when it was saddled with the decades worth of bullshit that had to be paid for it then under-performed.

SR certainly has problems, the "stalker" angle is odd, there's a couple of pacing problems and I'm personally not a fan of either Routh's Superman or what's-her-name's Lois (or the kid story line) but I still think it's a decent enough movie with some great music and some great "Superman scenes" like the stuff with the plane and then later the boat.

I remember going to see the movie in the theater and I got chills when the Williams score fired up with those credits. Man, that was awesome shit.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9vrfEoc8_g[/yt]

This is the Superman theme. It's a crime to not use it.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Have a problem with strong women, Shran?

No, just Lois.

Seriously though, I've never understood what Superman sees in her.

 

[Mr Light]

She's a frail little mortal human but she's tougher than he ever was

 

[Greylock Crescent]

I remember going to see the movie in the theater and I got chills when the Williams score fired up with those credits. Man, that was awesome shit.

The opening credits were, by far, the best moments in the movie (which is an unfortunate indictment on the rest of the film). I loved hearing Williams' theme on the big screen again. The problem, though, is that the dour Superman Returns story is, tonally, very different from the effusive bombast of Williams' Superman theme. It's a mismatch of expectations and results. Of course, the Superman Returns score itself wasn't composed by Williams. But John Ottman's work was as bland as the rest of the film -- only becoming notable when he used one of Williams' themes.

 

[Forbin]

Again, it was the 80's. Totally different time. Most stuff from that era is gonna look painfully awkward. Ladyhawk anyone?

Whatcha talking about? Except for the ridiculous music, Ladyhawk was a gorgeous film.