Star Trek First Contact

[Willim Davies]

I understand that Picard has had unfortunate past troubles involving the Borg, but may anyone tell me who's idea it was, (no matter the reasons why Picards past with the borg mattered) but whos idea it was to keep the Federations flag ship out of the battle between the Borg and the Federation over Earth??!!

 

[Captrek]

In the following film, at the height of the Dominion War, this same flagship is essentially hijacked by its own captain and bridge crew who forsake their assigned mission and undertake their own mission to sabotage the Federation war effort in order to make an ethical stand against the relocation of 600 settlers who stumbled on the Briar Patch first, and the whole incident is pretty much shrugged off. It would seem that Starfleet isn't terribly impressed with the significance of the ship.

 

[sonak]

I understand that Picard has had unfortunate past troubles involving the Borg, but may anyone tell me who's idea it was, (no matter the reasons why Picards past with the borg mattered) but whos idea it was to keep the Federations flag ship out of the battle between the Borg and the Federation over Earth??!!

It's a plot contrivance to make Picard and the crew look "daring" and "bold" by having to violate Starfleet orders, and it also increases the drama by having them come "just in the nick of time" to the rescue.

If you want to be more generous, it foreshadows Picard flipping out later in the movie, as it shows Starfleet may have a point regarding Picard having issues when confronting the Borg.


(these issues never surfaced in "I, Borg" or "Descent" of course, but again, it makes for more drama in the movie)

 

[Brikar99]

it makes for more drama in the movie)

This is essentially why it works. I'm willing to forgive stretching Picard's emotions a bit in order to give the movie more "oomph."

 

[Tiberius]

In the following film, at the height of the Dominion War, this same flagship is essentially hijacked by its own captain and bridge crew who forsake their assigned mission and undertake their own mission to sabotage the Federation war effort in order to make an ethical stand against the relocation of 600 settlers who stumbled on the Briar Patch first, and the whole incident is pretty much shrugged off. It would seem that Starfleet isn't terribly impressed with the significance of the ship.

How did Picard's actions in Insurrection damage the war effort? if anything, he showed how stupid it was to ally with the Son'a. Let's not forget that the war was still going on, and the Federation was working with a group who were manufacturing ketracel White. And the Son'a were just using the Feds. I don't see how the federation war effort was harmed in any way by this, apart from removing the Enterprise from the battlefield.

 

[Brikar99]

The collected 'metaphasic' radiation or whatever it was called could have been used in the treatment of wounded soldiers from the front. I think that's what captrek was getting at, maybe?

 

[Tiberius]

Shame they never spelled it out in the movie. the whole reason for the Federation being there was kinda vague...

 

[RyuRoots]

these issues never surfaced in "I, Borg" or "Descent" of course

Well, duh. There'd be no reason to. There was no fighting of ANY kind in I, Borg and there was no collective in Descent so that was a whole other ball game altogether. He only snapped when he felt he was going to lose to them again, which never came close to happening in either episode.

 

[od0_ital]

I understand that Picard has had unfortunate past troubles involving the Borg, but may anyone tell me who's idea it was, (no matter the reasons why Picards past with the borg mattered) but whos idea it was to keep the Federations flag ship out of the battle between the Borg and the Federation over Earth??!!

It was all Admiral Hayes's idea.

Didn't ya watch the movie?!?

 

[sonak]

these issues never surfaced in "I, Borg" or "Descent" of course

Well, duh. There'd be no reason to. There was no fighting of ANY kind in I, Borg and there was no collective in Descent so that was a whole other ball game altogether. He only snapped when he felt he was going to lose to them again, which never came close to happening in either episode.

That's not what's conveyed in the film. Lily calls him on his b.s. in the ready room scene and shows him that it's really about revenge, NOT losing to the Borg.(at this point, they think setting the auto-destruct sequence on the Ent-E will defeat the Borg, so he's not fearing losing to them.)


So if all he wanted was revenge, he could have had it in "I, Borg" since Geordi and Data give him a way to do that through Hugh. Yet he's not obsessing about revenge there.

 

[spaceballone]

these issues never surfaced in "I, Borg" or "Descent" of course

Well, duh. There'd be no reason to. There was no fighting of ANY kind in I, Borg and there was no collective in Descent so that was a whole other ball game altogether. He only snapped when he felt he was going to lose to them again, which never came close to happening in either episode.

That's not what's conveyed in the film. Lily calls him on his b.s. in the ready room scene and shows him that it's really about revenge, NOT losing to the Borg.(at this point, they think setting the auto-destruct sequence on the Ent-E will defeat the Borg, so he's not fearing losing to them.)


So if all he wanted was revenge, he could have had it in "I, Borg" since Geordi and Data give him a way to do that through Hugh. Yet he's not obsessing about revenge there.

Well, he and his crew are not being attacked or under any real danger in Iborg. It's a single Borg drone they find. In First Contact the Borg collective is trying to take over Earth. They are taking over his ship and his men deck by deck. I imagine that has a much different effect on him than a single Borg drone posing no threat sitting in the brig. First Contact is the first time he's faced THe Borg since The BEst of Both Worlds.

 

[sbk1234]

(these issues never surfaced in "I, Borg" or "Descent" of course, but again, it makes for more drama in the movie)

I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember a lot of anger from Picard, and even Guinan in I, Borg.

 

[Tomalak]

In the following film, at the height of the Dominion War, this same flagship is essentially hijacked by its own captain and bridge crew who forsake their assigned mission and undertake their own mission to sabotage the Federation war effort in order to make an ethical stand against the relocation of 600 settlers who stumbled on the Briar Patch first, and the whole incident is pretty much shrugged off. It would seem that Starfleet isn't terribly impressed with the significance of the ship.

Well yeah. They were just pootling around the Federation doing low-grade diplomatic missions. Next stop was an archaeological dig IIRC. Clearly for whatever reason they were kept out of fighting whenever possible.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The collected 'metaphasic' radiation or whatever it was called could have been used in the treatment of wounded soldiers from the front.

And yet its effects wear off when one leaves the planet?

 

[Therin of Andor]

I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember a lot of anger from Picard, and even Guinan in I, Borg.

And Picard's failure to infect the Borg with a virus, using Hugh as a carrier, raised the ire of Starfleet admirals. So there would be some who suspected that Locutus was still compromising Picard, but they couldn't prove anything. So they kept him away from the Borg.

 

[Willim Davies]

I understand that Picard has had unfortunate past troubles involving the Borg, but may anyone tell me who's idea it was, (no matter the reasons why Picards past with the borg mattered) but whos idea it was to keep the Federations flag ship out of the battle between the Borg and the Federation over Earth??!!

It was all Admiral Hayes's idea.

Didn't ya watch the movie?!?

Yes i did watch the movie, but when did 1 admiral saying no make all other heigher ups in the chain of command agree to exclude the federations flag ship out of a battle that could alter the whole of Earth?!

 

[Tiberius]

The term flagship doesn't mean that the enterprise was any more or less capable than any other sovereign class ship.

 

[Willim Davies]

The term flagship doesn't mean that the enterprise was any more or less capable than any other sovereign class ship.

I agree, but if you watch the film (now i may be mistaken) but i don't recall seeing any other Sovereign class ships in that battle apart from the enterprise :/
please someone correct me if i am wrong

 

[Brikar99]

The collected 'metaphasic' radiation or whatever it was called could have been used in the treatment of wounded soldiers from the front.

And yet its effects wear off when one leaves the planet?

That's why the Son'a had built a giant machine to collect it.

 

[Rom's Sehlat]

I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember a lot of anger from Picard, and even Guinan in I, Borg.

And Picard's failure to infect the Borg with a virus, using Hugh as a carrier, raised the ire of Starfleet admirals. So there would be some who suspected that Locutus was still compromising Picard, but they couldn't prove anything. So they kept him away from the Borg.

That lines up with how Picard would act normally, though. Surely they would know that?