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Dalek history question

EJA

Fleet Captain
Okay, so the Fourth Doctor drastically alters Dalek history in Genesis of the Daleks (He states at the end that he's set their development back by a thousand years). Does this mean that in the new timeline, previous Dalek stories may no longer happen? I know the Doctor will still remember everything from The Daleks to Death to the Daleks, but what about the rest of the universe? With their history skewered, do the Daleks now no longer invade Earth in the 22nd century? If so, I wonder what happened to Susan, who stayed behind to help rebuild. I personally reckon that, being a Time Lady, she would remain the same while the rest of reality changed around her, but this still begs the question of what would become of her afterwards.

Then there's stories like The Chase, The Evil of the Daleks, and Day of the Daleks, all of which involved Daleks from the future travelling in time to our present era, but now that the future those Daleks hailed from is probably negated or "unwritten", are the effects of their visits to the present era still felt and recognised? E.g, do the Daleks never visit the Empire State Building in 1966 (from the POV of those outside the TARDIS)? Does Victoria Waterfield's father no longer draw the Daleks to 19th century Earth? Or is it more like the Time Crack in the latest series, where an object can be erased from existence, but everything they did up to that point still occurs? In which case, it'd be a bit of a wasted effort for the Time Lords to try and prevent their existence in the first place, if they "delete" them from the timeline, but all those poor sentient lifeforms across the universe still die horribly.
 
No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

It is a fictional construct that has been around for nearly fifty years and has never ever been intended to make much sense when it comes to continuity because of multiple minds working on it over the years.

Please accept that for once and it will mean you'll be happier and so will everyone else.
 
Perhaps the Doctor did the opposite: he didn't *alter* Dalek history, he was part of what was supposed to happen all along. Meaning: All of his previous encounters with the Daleks were part of the timeline established in "Genesis...", not alternate to it.
 
The CIA wouldn't cock it up like that.

Time Travelling Daleks would be immune to paradoxes.

having their history changed would only mean that an alternate dalek species comes to the fore who will be seen as abominations by the time travelling Daleks and in turn have to be destroyed first.

However if there were two (or more) time travelling Dalek Civilization born from different timelines, well that's a horse of another colour entirely.

A mirror war.

I think the Daleks are cheeky bastards after they "reversed with timetravel" their loss in 2157 and became masters of the Earth in Day of the Daleks which is effectively saying that the the Doctor and Susan lost or never fought the Daleks in the Dalek Invasion of 2157.

The real change was Davros.

Unless he was the Dalek Emperor the second Doctor fought, it's possible that he didn't make it off Skaro and the Daleks spent millions of years stalemated with the Movellans, and never had to deal with the civil war we did see or the plague.
 
No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

It is a fictional construct that has been around for nearly fifty years and has never ever been intended to make much sense when it comes to continuity because of multiple minds working on it over the years.

Please accept that for once and it will mean you'll be happier and so will everyone else.

Does that mean we shouldn't wonder then? We shouldn't think? That we should never, ever go "Hang on a minute, what about...?" This idea a lot of fans seem to have that we should never question what we see is a distressing one, and one that I hope will eventually disappear. The TrekBBS is for debating, and that's precisely what I'm doing; there's no need to be so negative. The hostility towards this in the DW section is astounding, to say the least.
 
The real change was Davros.

On this I agree, or rather, that it was one of the major changes wrought by Four's tampering in the timeline. Davros died for good in the original version of history, but survives to plague the universe in the new one.
 
The Discontinuity Guide takes the perspective that there are two Dalek histories, pre- and post-Genesis.
 
No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

It is a fictional construct that has been around for nearly fifty years and has never ever been intended to make much sense when it comes to continuity because of multiple minds working on it over the years.

Please accept that for once and it will mean you'll be happier and so will everyone else.

Does that mean we shouldn't wonder then? We shouldn't think? That we should never, ever go "Hang on a minute, what about...?" This idea a lot of fans seem to have that we should never question what we see is a distressing one, and one that I hope will eventually disappear. The TrekBBS is for debating, and that's precisely what I'm doing. The hostility towards this in the DW section is astounding, to say the least.

Not in the slightest. I just feel that trying to connect all the dots when it comes to the sometimes massive continuity issues that you seem to do is a massive act of futility. And it is not the first time that you've come in here and wanted to connect multiple events across the decades that Who has exsisted.

And it's really not a case of not caring, it's a case of actually realising that Who's been around a long time, it's had multiple "chefs" chucking in ingrediants, taking them out and mixing them around everyonce in a while and even though they know what's happened before, they just want to stamp their own brand on the programme.

As for hostile, I can't talk for others, for me, it's more a case of bemused irritation, but are you that surprised if some quarters are hostile to your threads? Doctor Who hasn't exactly ever been serious about its continuity, so why on earth should we, the viewers be so. It's a Television programme. A Childrens Televison programme at that and is meant primarily as a bit of fun.

Trying to connect everything just sucks the fun right out it.
 
The Discontinuity Guide takes the perspective that there are two Dalek histories, pre- and post-Genesis.

Precisely the standpoint I'm proceeding from. I simply can't help wondering what happened to Susan on 22nd century Earth, assuming the Dalek invasion didn't happen then.
 
The Discontinuity Guide takes the perspective that there are two Dalek histories, pre- and post-Genesis.

Precisely the standpoint I'm proceeding from. I simply can't help wondering what happened to Susan on 22nd century Earth, assuming the Dalek invasion didn't happen then.

Well, if there was no invasion, Susan may/may not have been back on Earth. There was nothing to rebuild.
 
I echo Dimesdan's response. It's all well and good to be debating these questions but as I've pointed out to you in the past EJA you do not debate. You pick and choose. There's a difference and I'm not trying to slag you. I'm trying to reinforce a point everyone has made with you before when discussing continuity.
 
wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey. we saw the episodes happen, so they happened. anything else is just basement dwelling, anal-retentive fanboy sadness.
 
wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey. we saw the episodes happen, so they happened. anything else is just basement dwelling, anal-retentive fanboy sadness.


That's all very well but the bigger question is - who's Doctor Who and why has he never appeared in the show?
 
The Discontinuity Guide takes the perspective that there are two Dalek histories, pre- and post-Genesis.

Precisely the standpoint I'm proceeding from. I simply can't help wondering what happened to Susan on 22nd century Earth, assuming the Dalek invasion didn't happen then.

Once time changed, she stopped existing. POOF! Gone. Susan who?


That dirty bastard! He killed his own grand-daughter - I never trusted him to start with... :scream:
 
wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey. we saw the episodes happen, so they happened. anything else is just basement dwelling, anal-retentive fanboy sadness.


That's all very well but the bigger question is - who's Doctor Who and why has he never appeared in the show?

Oh, he's appeared in the show alright. "Doctor Who" was listed in the credits from 1963 to 1979! :p

Mr Awe
 
I believe that Chirstopher Eccelston was listed as "Doctor Who" in the end credits for "Parting of the Ways". It's one of the first series episodes anyway. I remember laughing lol.
 
^ Actually, it was like that for all of the first season of NuWho. Tennant asked them to change it.
 
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