Series 6 prequel planned

[Sci]

I think a lot of the issues people have with Rory, actually, is that Arthur and Karen don't have as good of screen chemistry as Matt and Karen, so that makes it harder to sell a Rory/Amy romance than to sell an Amy/Doctor attraction.

 

[Count Zero]

And companions really ought to scream again.

For the love of God, please no! Susan and Victoria Waterfield alone have fulfilled my lifelong quota of screaming girls/women.

 

[captcalhoun]

the only time i wanna hear Amy scream is when she screams my name.

nudge, nudge, wink, wink. saynomore.

 

[Bones2]

the only time i wanna hear Amy scream is when she screams my name.

nudge, nudge, wink, wink. saynomore.

Why, what are you planning on doing to her?

 

[Sindatur]

the only time i wanna hear Amy scream is when she screams my name.

nudge, nudge, wink, wink. saynomore.

Why, what are you planning on doing to her?

Anything she'll let him do, I would imagine

 

[Bones2]

I was going to say, I know she's not a great actress, but she doesn't deserve...

Oh. You mean sex, don't you. Very funny.

 

[Starkers]

I think a lot of the issues people have with Rory, actually, is that Arthur and Karen don't have as good of screen chemistry as Matt and Karen, so that makes it harder to sell a Rory/Amy romance than to sell an Amy/Doctor attraction.

I don't completely agree, but I can see where you're coming from...I think Rory/The Doctor have good chemistry together, in fact much as I love Amy, I wouldn't be opposed to it just being the Doctor and Rory for a while...although really I'm hoping the pair of them get a nice send off together that doesn't involve being trapped in another dimension, dying, splitting up or something else horrible!

 

[Bones2]

I reckon the show would benefit immensely if Amy did an Adric and maybe have just the Doctor and Rory for a bit. Before he gets replaced by a historical or different culture character. Give Eleven a Leela or a Jamie.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

And companions really ought to scream again.

For the love of God, please no! Susan and Victoria Waterfield alone have fulfilled my lifelong quota of screaming girls/women.

And Polly. She did more than both of them combined.

 

[Psion]

Re: The Prequel (possible spoilers)

Yeah, as well as the snivelling "I'm a sad little man who's useless, the hammer fell on my foot when I tried to put up a shelf, I fall over into hedges after half a shandy, the Doctor's got a bigger willy than me, Amy makes me do the washing up while she watches me and shouts about what a shit job I'm doing, I'd kill myself and end my sad life if it wasn't guaranteed that I'd fuck it up and end up paralysed because I'm like all men - compared to sassy women like Amy, I'm a useless cu..." type.

Well, yeah. At least at first. Up through "Vampires of Venice", I'd say. But he did a good job vindicating himself in the finale. I keep coming back to the 2,000 years he spent guarding the Pandorica. That was epic!

Well, you mention that Pandorica lark and rightly. But it's had no change on the character at all. He's still the useless pipsqueak twat I described above. And the thing is, you'd never get away with the roles reversed - if the woman character was a buffoonish milquetoast and the man was sassy and confident, it'd be immediately condemned. But this is just as sexist. These days it's only really fine to portray men as mostly blundering idiots, and this is an example of it.

I've worried the same thing about Rory elsewhere and my cynical side fears we're both right. But we didn't see much of the character in either the Christmas special, or the Comic Relief thing. There's still some hope that he'll carry with him some improvements.

And you're absolutely right about the sexist nature of the way Rory's treated. We get tons of that over here on American TV. It's now a hoary standby of commercials, for example, where the females are portrayed as chic, sexy, smart, and "with it", and the males are shown as dumpy and dumb. I don't have a problem with a range of caricatures that include this kind of dynamic, but I get the feeling that males and females -- particularly husband/wife couples -- are almost always portrayed as the inept male being kept by the confident female.

Well, yeah. At least at first. Up through "Vampires of Venice", I'd say. But he did a good job vindicating himself in the finale. I keep coming back to the 2,000 years he spent guarding the Pandorica. That was epic!

Well, you mention that Pandorica lark and rightly. But it's had no change on the character at all. He's still the useless pipsqueak twat I described above.

You sure do read a lot into dropping a hammer.

Thermocouple. And maybe we both are. But which do you think is more likely ... that Rory will develop as a result of his 2000 year experiences or that he'll continue to be his old lovable, bumbling self? Or am I presenting a false dichotomy and there are more options I'm not listing? Maybe he'll be a conflicted blending of the Rory Amy remembered back into existence and the 2000 year centurian?

 

[Bones2]

Was it definite as to how much of the centurion wankery actually happened from Rory's point of view? Because he was, after all, a plastic man for that time, albeit with Rory's memories and whatever (perhaps he was actually being hyperthick, like a loyal sheepdog who'll sit by its dead owner until it gets hungry and eats his leg). And then they sort of wake up on a wedding day not remembering a thing, or something. I only saw it when it was first on. But if it never happened from his point of view, you'd expect Rory to carry on being a doltish prat.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Like a lot of others said, in this thread or another, when the TARDIS is materializing during the wedding reception, Rory says "how did we forget the Doctor" then something like "I was plastic y'know".

So it all came rushing back to him, or at least most of it.

 

[Psion]

Yep, what Ar-Pharazon said.

With regard to my other peeve about commercials, I just spent the last hour looking for a few examples, and could find none of the ones I thought of and no other corroboration.

So ... you're now permitted to throw popcorn at me while I attempt to divert you all with a few amusing examples that have nothing to do with my argument.

A collection of ten.

Learn some languages.

A very evil car.

 

[Thestral]

I've worried the same thing about Rory elsewhere and my cynical side fears we're both right. But we didn't see much of the character in either the Christmas special, or the Comic Relief thing. There's still some hope that he'll carry with him some improvements.

As you said - he's had maybe 15 minutes of screentime since The Big Bang. And even before he got erased from time he was starting to show character growth. When Rory first appeared I rolled my eyes at the poor man's Mickey Smith and was not looking forward to his appearance. But now I really like the character, so I'm reasonably confident more will be done with him.

I don't have a problem with a range of caricatures that include this kind of dynamic, but I get the feeling that males and females -- particularly husband/wife couples -- are almost always portrayed as the inept male being kept by the confident female.

Examples from the top of my head where this is not the case (note not always/often married):

Booth and Bones (among other, Bones)
Eric and Tammy Taylor (among others, Friday Night Lights)
Castle and Beckett (Castle)
Adama and Roslin (BSG)
Mal and Inara (Firefly)

I know the problem you refer to, but there is tv outside of sitcoms, you know.

 

[Starkers]

The trouble is super cool Rory probably wouldn't be as fun to watch as lovable doofus Rory...and I think its possible for him to both be a little more worldly and yet still a little self-conscious, I mean it isn't like he spent those 2000 years necessarily interacting with all the great people of history, reading every book ever written and travelling the globe...he was emotionally tied to the Pandorica. Where it went, he went...hell I wonder exactly how many centuries he spent just sitting under Stonehenge before the Pandorica was even found (I suspect the Brilliant book of Dr Who may tell me this!). Even after the Pandorica was found I doubt Rory spent his nights dancing the night away at the Ritz, exchanging witty dialogue with Oscar Wilde and romancing Mata Hari...

Maybe people would be happier if Ross Kemp was the next companion?

 

[Psion]

And I was worried about my false dichotomy?

He doesn't have to be "super cool". He doesn't have to be macho. But after two thousand years, even just sitting around with himself, he needs to be different. Even if he also has memories where that didn't happen and the two sets of experiences are interwoven.

Maybe he's now a touch schizo. Maybe he now demonstrates extraordinary bouts of patience. Maybe he's got a touch of wisdom based on years of reflecting on the human condition. Maybe he'll start to see Amy differently and dump her. Maybe she'll no longer click with him because something's off and she'll break up with him. Maybe one of these days when the Doctor complains about getting too old, Rory can come back with "I'll give you another thousand years to catch up, junior."

The changes don't have to be gross, they can be subtle. They'd have to be, since he hasn't shown big changes in the cumulative three minutes we've seen him since "The Big Bang".

But as I've said, I'd expect the experience to affect him in some way and will be disappointed if it hasn't.

 

[WillsBabe]

Re: The Prequel (possible spoilers)

One of the things that always fascinates me about Doctor Who is the state of seeing America through British eyes, and what that implies about how Great Britain views the United States.

I can see how that would be very interesting. The British see endless examples of how the US media (film and tv) and therefore by extension the US itself views us. I don't know if there is much of it going the other way.

 

[thestrangequark]

Re: The Prequel (possible spoilers)

Well, yeah. At least at first. Up through "Vampires of Venice", I'd say. But he did a good job vindicating himself in the finale. I keep coming back to the 2,000 years he spent guarding the Pandorica. That was epic!

Well, you mention that Pandorica lark and rightly. But it's had no change on the character at all. He's still the useless pipsqueak twat I described above. And the thing is, you'd never get away with the roles reversed - if the woman character was a buffoonish milquetoast and the man was sassy and confident, it'd be immediately condemned. But this is just as sexist. These days it's only really fine to portray men as mostly blundering idiots, and this is an example of it.

I've worried the same thing about Rory elsewhere and my cynical side fears we're both right. But we didn't see much of the character in either the Christmas special, or the Comic Relief thing. There's still some hope that he'll carry with him some improvements.

And you're absolutely right about the sexist nature of the way Rory's treated. We get tons of that over here on American TV. It's now a hoary standby of commercials, for example, where the females are portrayed as chic, sexy, smart, and "with it", and the males are shown as dumpy and dumb. I don't have a problem with a range of caricatures that include this kind of dynamic, but I get the feeling that males and females -- particularly husband/wife couples -- are almost always portrayed as the inept male being kept by the confident female.

Well, you mention that Pandorica lark and rightly. But it's had no change on the character at all. He's still the useless pipsqueak twat I described above.

You sure do read a lot into dropping a hammer.

Thermocouple. And maybe we both are. But which do you think is more likely ... that Rory will develop as a result of his 2000 year experiences or that he'll continue to be his old lovable, bumbling self? Or am I presenting a false dichotomy and there are more options I'm not listing? Maybe he'll be a conflicted blending of the Rory Amy remembered back into existence and the 2000 year centurian?

I'm sorry, but think about what you're writing, guys -- it's absolutely ridiculous! You're saying that that Doctor Who is being sexist in having a male character who's (as you perceive him) weak and not the brightest bulb in the box. And this makes sense because Doctor Who doesn't show any examples of intelligent and brave male characters at all...

 

[Venardhi]

Examples from the top of my head where this is not the case (note not always/often married):

Booth and Bones (among other, Bones)
Eric and Tammy Taylor (among others, Friday Night Lights)
Castle and Beckett (Castle)
Adama and Roslin (BSG)
Mal and Inara (Firefly)

I know the problem you refer to, but there is tv outside of sitcoms, you know.

Those are all examples of developing relationships, and some of them haven't even gotten to the point where you could call them proper romantic relationships. In those cases you have to have both be equally attractive/capable.

The trope being argued is the strongsmartsavvy woman and her dumbslovenlyclumsyetc husband/boyfriend. Sitcoms are usually the worst, commercials nearly as bad but more easily excused because of their 30-second nature.

I think this is mostly due to men not knowing how to write flawed women characters very well, so nearly every woman on TV, most notably in comedy, is pretty much a maternal fantasy figure and well out of the league of her funny, goodhearted but otherwise useless husband or boyfriend character that the show focuses on because he is much more interesting.

 

[thestrangequark]

Examples from the top of my head where this is not the case (note not always/often married):

Booth and Bones (among other, Bones)
Eric and Tammy Taylor (among others, Friday Night Lights)
Castle and Beckett (Castle)
Adama and Roslin (BSG)
Mal and Inara (Firefly)

I know the problem you refer to, but there is tv outside of sitcoms, you know.

Those are all examples of developing relationships, and some of them haven't even gotten to the point where you could call them proper romantic relationships. In those cases you have to have both be equally attractive/capable.

The trope being argued is the strongsmartsavvy woman and her dumbslovenlyclumsyetc husband/boyfriend. Sitcoms are usually the worst, commercials nearly as bad but more easily excused because of their 30-second nature.

I think this is mostly due to men not knowing how to write flawed women characters very well, so nearly every woman on TV, most notably in comedy, is pretty much a maternal fantasy figure and well out of the league of her funny, goodhearted but otherwise useless husband or boyfriend character that the show focuses on because he is much more interesting.

There's also a perception that Rory isn't what a woman would want -- my guess is that most people making that presumption are men. Personally, I find the character attractive. Also, Rory's personality, by the fact that Amy loves him, tells us a lot we wouldn't otherwise know about Amy -- he's good for character development.