Plinkett gets REVENGE

[Bishop76]

You must practice loaded questions and statements regularly to shoot them off so often. You're comparing a concept - a small, unused concept, mentioned almost off hand - to a whole film. I don't even know where to begin telling you what's wrong with that comparison. Moreover, what would be the relevance of bringing that up other than to bait me? What does Trek XI have to do with Midi-chlorians?

 

[Greylock Crescent]

It's more of a catharsis than it is enlightenment.

This is a pretty good description of the value of the RLM reviews. They're meant to provide an entertaining and "cathartic" outlet for viewers who, for any number of reasons, don't like the PT. Nothing wrong with that. RLM is pretty exhaustive in finding faults within the PT. And let's face it: we all like to have our opinions validated. But the reviews shouldn't be taken as (nor were they ever intended to be) enlightened, reasonable or otherwise objective critiques of the PT.

 

[Set Harth]

BTW, that is a VERY different interpretation of what Obi-Won said in ANH "It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together." How can micro-organisms bind together a galaxy?

He didn't say that microorganisms bind together a galaxy. He said that the Force did. Midichlorians are not the Force. You're starting with a false assumption, that midichlorians are the Force, and then insisting that's a different interpretation from the OT. And it is, but it's not an interpretation occurring in the PT. The PT never said that midichlorians were the Force. In fact, it never defined the Force at all. Thus, it didn't present a Force that was different from the version in the OT.

and there sure as hell couldn't be any midi-chlorians in a star or a rock or a X-Wing.

Then it's a good thing the Jedi order doesn't have any stars, rocks, or X-Wings as members, because they would really suck at being Jedi.

I think the fact that there's debate about just what MCs are just kind of goes to show that they were a pretty poorly written, undeveloped plot point.

Or it shows that some TPM critics don't much care for what was actually said in the films, preferring to rewrite the dialogue into something else entirely and then criticize their own rewrite as though that qualifies as legitimate criticism of the film. If a film says "midichlorians cause Force sensitivity" and a viewer hears "midichlorians are the Force", which the film never said, that's not the film's fault. If a charge against the film is intended to have any merit at all, it should at least be accurate. The fact that most people don't seem to remotely care whether charges against the film are true or false speaks volumes about the credibility of the PT hate camp.

 

[David cgc]

As a misinterpretation, it's a bit like complaining that doctors say that the fluid in the inner ear causes gravity.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

What the midichlorians do or don't was not explained well. Regardless, there was a mythic quality that Force had with the OT that is now lost, regardless of wether the explanation of what the midichlorians do technically can be rationalized to fit with the OT

 

[Alex1939]

Maybe I'm just tired of the Prequel bashing, since it's been going on for almost half my life now and equally bad movies have come out but don't get the same vitriol.

You should have already figured this one out.

The Original Trilogy is a "classic" that many here remember when they first came to theaters and others remember watching as children.

The vast majority of other terrible movies don't have any history, let alone the history of being a classic of a genre. Therefore they are easily dismissed.

 

[infinix]

Okay Set Harth, do you agree with this statement

"Midi-Chlorians are what made life possible and midi-chlorians are what allowed the Jedi (and the Sith) to understand the ways of the force." This is basically paraphrasing Qui-Gon.

So then, midi-chlorians are supposed to exist in all living things. Since midi-chlorians are ever present, it can be argued that everyone is Force sensitive, its just a matter of different intensity.

With me so far??

Okay, fast forward to OT, with Luke on the Falcon, being trained, and Han Solo says "That Force thing is non-sense." Well, why? There is a very scientific explanation to Force Sensitivity. Everybody has Midi-Chlorians, so why wouldn't Obi-Wan simply explained it pointed out that Han also has Midi-Chlorians and if only he had received training, he would also know the will of the Force?

You see, in the OT, the Force was illusive and the knowledge of it is not meant for everyone. But PT told us there is a "silver bullet" that everyone can look at for proof that the Force does exist. That is a drastic difference.

 

[Thestral]

Well that's easily enough explained. You're assuming first that midichlorian knowledge was more or less universal (or perhaps that knowledge of midichlorians utility to Force-sensitives was universal). If Solo didn't have that knowledge and Obi Wan didn't feel like explaining it, then that's your answer.

Also, in the 20 years in between films and with the near-destruction of the Jedi Order, it's possible the Emperor suppressed knowledge.

 

[infinix]

Well that's easily enough explained. You're assuming first that midichlorian knowledge was more or less universal (or perhaps that knowledge of midichlorians utility to Force-sensitives was universal). If Solo didn't have that knowledge and Obi Wan didn't feel like explaining it, then that's your answer.

Also, in the 20 years in between films and with the near-destruction of the Jedi Order, it's possible the Emperor suppressed knowledge.

Midi-Chlorians are micro-organisms that live within EVERY SINGLE LIVING CELL. Every basic biology class should point out that "hey, there are these organisms living inside every cell and they serve no observable purpose. We have no idea where they came from or how they got inside us. But don't worry about it, they aren't all that important."

 

[Thestral]

<shrug> Perhaps they perform some mundane function that they're primarily used for. Perhaps they're somehow hidden from typical medical scans and only Jedi know how to scan for them. Again, easily enough to possibly explain.

 

[Bishop76]

Yeah, it's easy enough to come up with an explanation, but you have yet to come up with a GOOD explanation. I mean, I can explain my appendix as an internal antenna for contacting the mole people, but that's probably not what it's actually used for... That's obviously a joke example, but you get the point - an explanation that defies logic and common sense isn't an explanation.

 

[Gaith]

Yeah, it's easy enough to come up with an explanation, but you have yet to come up with a GOOD explanation. I mean, I can explain my appendix as an internal antenna for contacting the mole people, but that's probably not what it's actually used for... That's obviously a joke example, but you get the point - an explanation that defies logic and common sense isn't an explanation.

"In my experience, there's no such thing as an appendix that's not used for contacting the mole people..."

 

[Thestral]

Explanations that defy logic and especially common sense are perfectly fine, because the universe is neither logical nor common-sensical.

The Jedi are a bloated and dogmatic organization that's populated by Warrior Monks, yes? What's so unbelievable about them keeping knowledge to themselves? That's as good an explanation as any for why Han Solo wouldn't know about a scientific explanation for why some people are Force sensitive and others aren't.

Note that I'm not saying anything about whether or not it's good that the Force sensitivity was made somehow biological instead of simply mystical.

 

[Bishop76]

What's unbelievable about that is that midi-chlorians are described as a microscopic life form. So, I'm gonna take a wild guess that some other scientist outside the Jedi order somewhere might have actually decided to look into this parasite at some time, particularly if they're in every living cell, just in varying concentrations.

 

[infinix]

<shrug> Perhaps they perform some mundane function that they're primarily used for. Perhaps they're somehow hidden from typical medical scans and only Jedi know how to scan for them. Again, easily enough to possibly explain.

Yes, that is indeed one possible explanation. But I am watching a movie where the Force is cruicial to what is happening in the movie. Then a character says "Midi-Chlorians are cruicial to the understanding of the Force" but these micro-organisms are never ever brought up again for the next 5movies. As a result, the audience is left to decide for themselves what exactly these MC actually does and how MC fits into the will of the Force. That just really bothers me.

In a much better written and acted movie, I am content to let things slide. But for a movie that was supposed to be an epic yet turned out to be little more than eye candy, I can't help but nitpick.

 

[DWF]

Okay Set Harth, do you agree with this statement

"Midi-Chlorians are what made life possible and midi-chlorians are what allowed the Jedi (and the Sith) to understand the ways of the force." This is basically paraphrasing Qui-Gon.

So then, midi-chlorians are supposed to exist in all living things. Since midi-chlorians are ever present, it can be argued that everyone is Force sensitive, its just a matter of different intensity.

With me so far??

Okay, fast forward to OT, with Luke on the Falcon, being trained, and Han Solo says "That Force thing is non-sense." Well, why? There is a very scientific explanation to Force Sensitivity. Everybody has Midi-Chlorians, so why wouldn't Obi-Wan simply explained it pointed out that Han also has Midi-Chlorians and if only he had received training, he would also know the will of the Force?

You see, in the OT, the Force was illusive and the knowledge of it is not meant for everyone. But PT told us there is a "silver bullet" that everyone can look at for proof that the Force does exist. That is a drastic difference.

Excect that the Force does exist it's not a matter of faith and in the end Han did see that it exists. And I can't see proof in the prequels that the Force was meant for everybody's general use.

 

[Thestral]

What's unbelievable about that is that midi-chlorians are described as a microscopic life form. So, I'm gonna take a wild guess that some other scientist outside the Jedi order somewhere might have actually decided to look into this parasite at some time, particularly if they're in every living cell, just in varying concentrations.

Which leads back to the two possibilities I suggested. Either they also perform some mundane function that everybody knows about or for some reason only the Jedi have the ability to detect them. It's a bit goofy, but it's nowhere near some sort of gamebreaking problem.

Yes, that is indeed one possible explanation. But I am watching a movie where the Force is cruicial to what is happening in the movie. Then a character says "Midi-Chlorians are cruicial to the understanding of the Force" but these micro-organisms are never ever brought up again for the next 5movies. As a result, the audience is left to decide for themselves what exactly these MC really does and how MC fits into the will of the Force. This just really bothers me.

In a much better written and acted movie, I am content to let things slide. But for a movie that was supposed to be an epic yet turned out to be little more than eye candy, I can't help but nitpick.

Technically I gave two explanations. Anyway, at least you can admit you're nitpicking. I mean, how do the Heisenberg compensators work in Star Trek exactly? For that matter, how the hell does the Doctor's screwdiver do all the amazing stuff it's supposed to do? You could come up with convoluted explanations - or you could just go with it. I choose to just go with it/ignore the midichlorians bit.

 

[Bishop76]

What's unbelievable about that is that midi-chlorians are described as a microscopic life form. So, I'm gonna take a wild guess that some other scientist outside the Jedi order somewhere might have actually decided to look into this parasite at some time, particularly if they're in every living cell, just in varying concentrations.

Which leads back to the two possibilities I suggested. Either they also perform some mundane function that everybody knows about or for some reason only the Jedi have the ability to detect them. It's a bit goofy, but it's nowhere near some sort of gamebreaking problem.

It is kind of a gamebreaker. There's just no point to this being in there, really. It would be like if Rowling decided to describe magic in the Harry Potter world as a small rodent living in everyone's liver that produces a special sauce that allows wizards to use magic. Except only wizards know about it and if anyone else knows about it, they assume it does something else. Oh, and the fact that she brought this up has nothing to do with the plot. Carry on, Harry and the Hamster.

So, now magic is suddenly less magical because it has the hamster explanation and no one knows why we have the hamster explanation because it's never mentioned again and just seems to exist to make magic less magical.

 

[infinix]

I laughed out loud at the hamster sauce.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

For all we know, Qui-Gon was completely insane, he came up with the whole midichlorian business all by himself, and Obi-Wan just induldged him. "Midichlorians? Oh yes, suuuure, Master. These nasty little things are everywhere!"