Star Wars:The Clone Wars S3......so far

[CorporalCaptain]

You may not agree, but I believe the ARC-170 pilot evokes more of the Ralph McQuarrie Imperial pilot look than the actual TIE fighter pilot look.

 

[JarodRussell]

There was no need to kill off Piell or if they needed a random Jedi death, they could've picked someone else. It's almost like they just thumbed their noses at Piell's original fate just to do it. Perhaps they didn't know about it, but somehow I doubt that. These guys seem well versed in the EU, using various alien species, etc., and all it would take is a quick trip to wookieepedia to find out what happened to Piell originally. I have to wonder if maybe they just didn't care for his original fate and wanted to do something else with him.

Storytellers have an obligation to do what is best for the story they're telling at the moment. Past continuity, particularly non-canonical continuity, is a resource to draw on, but not a dogma that must be followed even at the cost of the story. If telling the best possible story means disregarding what an earlier story did, then that's what you do. It's not the result of ignorance or deliberate hostility toward the original work; it's a creative choice for the good of the story, one that the creators of the story have the right to make.

If that happened within one book or episode, one would consider it a flaw, error, plot hole.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

You may not agree, but I believe the ARC-170 pilot evokes more of the Ralph McQuarrie Imperial pilot look than the actual TIE fighter pilot look.

ah ok. i just didn't know what you were referring to. Thanks!

 

[Set Harth]

I don't know about secrets, but some of my questions have finally been answered, regarding the nature of the Force and what being The Chosen One means.

The nature of the Force is the same as it always was since the OT, and the role of the Chosen One was explained in the PT. None of this is any way new. "Secrets Revealed" is nothing more than the standard hype-generating tag line they used in Season 2 to introduce certain Cad Bane episodes which... wait for it... revealed no secrets.

Especially since TCW hasn't shown much respect for the canon of the PT, so why expect respect for the canon of the EU?

So what stopped the writers from creating the otherwise inevitable Anakin-and-Grievous episode?

The problem is, the story so far simply doesn't synch up with ROTS - TCW has introduced big discontinuities by having characters know more than they "should,"

Give examples.

They shouldn't bother to synch it up with ROTS now that they've scuttled it anyway.

The show was always intended to synch up with ROTS. The films are still canon.

Plus Anakin needs a personality reset.

Which, of course, would conflict with his having the exact same personality in the opening of ROTS.

Really, that's all I ask of this show.

Just that, in addition to ROTS and the OT being thrown out. Not that big a deal.

 

[Dac]

The only big difference I see at the moment from TCW to ROTS is the fact Anakin is still a relatively happy go lucky guy. I think once Ahsoka dies/leave's due to so Anakin being reckless or something between them he'll become the much more Stoic cold bastard he was in ROTS.

 

[DarthPipes]

Anakin seems relatively happy in the beginning of ROTS. Joking around with Obi-Wan, with Padme early on. Once he starts having the dreams is when he goes all psycho.

 

[Saul]

Anakin is less of an asshole in the Clone Wars series, he gets on with the job and bitches less about how great he is or how much he loves Padme.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ This is by far one of the great things about The Clone Wars series is how it has improved upon Anakin's character in terms of personality. As far as being respectful to the PT and EU, as I've pointed out in the past (seem to get ignored by certain posters here) the series has been respectful to the prequel trilogy and elements of the Expanded Universe and even the animated series Clone Wars. If it wasn't, we would not have Ventress, Grevious, or Anakin's scar in this series. They would have started from scratch. Dave Filoni has given interviews that they've tried to be respectful to all of Star Wars continuity.

 

[exodus]

There was no need to kill off Piell or if they needed a random Jedi death, they could've picked someone else. It's almost like they just thumbed their noses at Piell's original fate just to do it. Perhaps they didn't know about it, but somehow I doubt that. These guys seem well versed in the EU, using various alien species, etc., and all it would take is a quick trip to wookieepedia to find out what happened to Piell originally. I have to wonder if maybe they just didn't care for his original fate and wanted to do something else with him.

Storytellers have an obligation to do what is best for the story they're telling at the moment. Past continuity, particularly non-canonical continuity, is a resource to draw on, but not a dogma that must be followed even at the cost of the story. If telling the best possible story means disregarding what an earlier story did, then that's what you do. It's not the result of ignorance or deliberate hostility toward the original work; it's a creative choice for the good of the story, one that the creators of the story have the right to make.

Exactly.
Simply put, EU isn't canon unless Lucas approves it as he did with "Shadows" by putting Dash Rendar's ship in the extended additions or acknowledging Adm. Thrawn. Killing off Peel shows the Lucas doesn't accept that EU as part of his canon.

Ahsoka killing the Christopher Walken

Wasn't his voice Al Pachino?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

There was no need to kill off Piell or if they needed a random Jedi death, they could've picked someone else. It's almost like they just thumbed their noses at Piell's original fate just to do it. Perhaps they didn't know about it, but somehow I doubt that. These guys seem well versed in the EU, using various alien species, etc., and all it would take is a quick trip to wookieepedia to find out what happened to Piell originally. I have to wonder if maybe they just didn't care for his original fate and wanted to do something else with him.

Storytellers have an obligation to do what is best for the story they're telling at the moment. Past continuity, particularly non-canonical continuity, is a resource to draw on, but not a dogma that must be followed even at the cost of the story. If telling the best possible story means disregarding what an earlier story did, then that's what you do. It's not the result of ignorance or deliberate hostility toward the original work; it's a creative choice for the good of the story, one that the creators of the story have the right to make.

If that happened within one book or episode, one would consider it a flaw, error, plot hole.

But what is the storyline of Star Wars? Is it the movies, the TV series, the novels? Is it some and not others?

I would have said it was movies + TV series and not novels (with so many novels in existence, how could they keep things straight?) but now I'm wondering if ROTS is on the chopping block too. The TCW writers are setting up foreshadowing to nowhere unless they intend for things like Anakin's annoyance over the constraints of democracy and his burgeoning alliance with Tarkin and maybe other disgruntled officers to go somewhere.

Generally, writers (who are reasonably careful) don't bother to foreshadow things unless there's some purpose to it. If Anakin's political opinions and alliances have nothing to do with his fall, then why introduce these elements? Is it all just filler?

The bigger issue is the foreshadowing of the Mortis Arc, which gave Anakin all "new" information about his proper role in the galaxy. He can't keep thinking of himself as the mere loyal Jedi now, but he shouldn't think of himself as a servant of the Sith, either. He's been told and shown that he is beyond all that.

That's far too big of an element to simply never factor into the story - it should be the main factor in the story, really - yet it never impacts either ROTS (where his motive was being stupid enough to fall for Palps' bs, and/or maybe just insane) or ROTJ (where his motive was love for Luke).

I could see all these elements being introduced into a TCW version of ROTS that shows us all the important things that were "left on the cutting room floor." Nothing needs to be deleted from the story, per se, but perhaps it will be demoted. If Anakin's motives are complex, then maybe the visions about Padme were not the sole factor, as ROTS made it seem, but just the final straw pushing him over the edge.

Or maybe none of it is foreshadowing and it's all just filler to give them stuff to show inbetween the ads for toys and diapers. But I've gotten the distinct feeling that this show is too carefully written for such a crass explanation to be the correct one. We shall see...

The only big difference I see at the moment from TCW to ROTS is the fact Anakin is still a relatively happy go lucky guy. I think once Ahsoka dies/leave's due to so Anakin being reckless or something between them he'll become the much more Stoic cold bastard he was in ROTS.

But he wasn't "stoic and cold" in ROTS. He was a whiny, stupid little brat. He was the opposite of stoic: a panicky, easily manipulated fool. And if he had been "cold," he wouldn't have cared about his visions of Padme's death.

Worse, he was also a whiny, stupid little brat in AOTC. What possible character arc can make him a whiny brat and then a cool, upstanding great guy (with maybe a ruthless streak) and then back to whiny, stupid brat? Even the reincarnation of Shakespeare couldn't make that nonsense work! I'm willing to just write off Anakin's PT characterization as a horrid mistake that they are now correcting. All is forgiven, the past is forgotten.

Anakin seems relatively happy in the beginning of ROTS. Joking around with Obi-Wan, with Padme early on. Once he starts having the dreams is when he goes all psycho.

He was a psycho in AOTC, too, as the Sand People can attest. I distinctly remember going into the theater being curious about how they were going to portray the grown-up Anakin, and was perplexed, to say the least, when he came off as a weird, creepy stalker from his very first scenes. I'm certain now that a lot of this was Hayden Christensen's weird, creepy stalker performance rather than all being in the script. But things didn't get any better in his "romantic" scenes with Padme, which had me wondering what she could possibly see in that weird creepy stalker guy...

The joking at the start of ROTS was too little, too late. AOTC sunk the character by making it implausible that intelligent, perceptive people would have him as a friend or lover, making his relationships with Obi-Wan and Padme equally implausible. I understood the intent, and cringed at how badly it flopped. Giving actors jokes to recite does not mean the actors are remotely able to pull them off (and the jokes were pretty lame in any case - you'd need someone with the personality of Harrison Ford to be able to salvage them).

Dave Filoni has given interviews that they've tried to be respectful to all of Star Wars continuity.

I'll give him credit for being just as respectful of canon as it deserves. Keep the stuff that works, jettison the stuff that doesn't. Good for him!

 

[exodus]

But what is the storyline of Star Wars? Is it the movies, the TV series, the novels? Is it some and not others?

Easy.
It's what ever Lucas excepts and under his production.

But he wasn't "stoic and cold" in ROTS. He was a whiny, stupid little brat.

Too who?
Isn't this just a matter of personal opinion & perspective?

He was a psycho in AOTC, too, as the Sand People can attest.

Anakin is a psycho for the exact same thing that made Charles Bronson a hero?
How many action films are they were the main character seeks revenge upon those that killed & toutured their family? How many in real life would seek revenge upon those that brutality murdered their mother? We don't call them a psycho, we cheer for them and hope eye for eye justice is served. Even in real life we'd say those like the Sand people deserved it.

They killed his mother, what type of reaction was he supposed to have?
Walk away and go: "Oh well, it sucks to be her."?

 

[DarKush]

^
Anakin/Bronson is an interesting comparison. One difference is that from what I recall from Death Wish is that Bronson only murdered the people involved in his family's murder (I haven't seen the movie in ages and might be wrong on that account), but Anakin murdered an entire village of people, even ones that had nothing to do with his mother's murder.

 

[Dac]

I'd say at the very beginning during the space battle he's pretty rigid, of course im only thinking of like the first 5 seconds. I guess I was wrong there. Stupid me.

 

[DarthPipes]

Remember that scene in AOTC with Anakin and Obi-Wan laughing in the elevator? Right before they meet with Padme. That scene was shot months after initial filming. Lucas realized when seeing the cut there wasn't much to suggest the two were friends. Maybe that was a problem with Anakin's characterization in the movies.

 

[Mach5]

Lucas realized when seeing the cut there wasn't much to suggest the two were friends.

Dumb motherf*** actually needed to see the cut to realize that!

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Yeah he mentions this in the audio commentary for Episode II, they're talking about their mission to Anison and about Anakin's anxiety about seeing Padme again after ten years.

 

[Mach5]

^ Yeah he mentions this in the audio commentary for Episode II, they're talking about their mission to Anison and about Anakin's anxiety about seeing Padme again after ten years.

Yeah, I know, I watched it. I nearly threw something into the TV screen when he said it.

 

[exodus]

^
Anakin/Bronson is an interesting comparison. One difference is that from what I recall from Death Wish is that Bronson only murdered the people involved in his family's murder (I haven't seen the movie in ages and might be wrong on that account), but Anakin murdered an entire village of people, even ones that had nothing to do with his mother's murder.

I see it this way.
If you know your neighbor or family member is holding someone hostage, torturing them with the intent to murder and you do nothing. Are you innocent or are you just as guilty as they are?

All of them were in on the torture and eventual murder of an innocent woman, ALL OF THEM. They ALL had something to do with her murder. They were ALL in on it. Yes, even the children because they are already influenced/programmed/brainwashed by what the tribe does. Even if he left them alive, they would still seek other innocent people to torture & murder.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yes, even the children because they are already influenced/programmed/brainwashed by what the tribe does. Even if he left them alive, they would still seek other innocent people to torture & murder.

This is ludicrous. It makes about as much sense as executing everyone who's ever seen Death Wish.

 

[Mach5]

If you know your neighbor or family member is holding someone hostage, torturing them with the intent to murder and you do nothing. Are you innocent or are you just as guilty as they are?

This probably varies from state to state, country to country, but over here the law says you're not obligated to help the victim if your own safety is jeopardized.