Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate timelin
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Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
From the STXI crew's perspective, TOS is nothing more than the "Parallels" realities were to the TNG crew, or the alternate future seen at the start of "Endgame" was to the Voyager crew. It's stuff that, to them, won't happen.
It's all about your multiverse point-of-view.
From the STXI crew's perspective, TOS is nothing more than the "Parallels" realities were to the TNG crew, or the alternate future seen at the start of "Endgame" was to the Voyager crew. It's stuff that, to them, won't happen.
It's all about your multiverse point-of-view.
Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
It's an alternate reality that exists in parallel to all the others. Hence "alternate reality" and "parallel timeline" being the same thing.
It's an alternate reality that exists in parallel to all the others. Hence "alternate reality" and "parallel timeline" being the same thing.
Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
Only from 2233 on. IMO a true parallel universe was never part of another universe.
Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
What if the Big Bang is starting point of all of them? A singularity either explodes forth a universe that divides and divides; or it doesn't explode - no universe(s) - nothing. For an instant they all would be one. Would that be right?
What if the Big Bang is starting point of all of them? A singularity either explodes forth a universe that divides and divides; or it doesn't explode - no universe(s) - nothing. For an instant they all would be one. Would that be right?
Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
If they all start as one then they are all diverging from that single universe. So they dont meet my definition.
Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
I'll just put it this way. I have been on this forum and other Trek forums arguing whether or not this movie takes place in a parallel universe or the same universe erasing all that came before. Both sides have made pretty good arguments to the point where it can be objectively noted that it isn't clear.
The objective fact that the two camps have been arguing since the movie came out states that it isn't clear.
I'll just put it this way. I have been on this forum and other Trek forums arguing whether or not this movie takes place in a parallel universe or the same universe erasing all that came before. Both sides have made pretty good arguments to the point where it can be objectively noted that it isn't clear.
The objective fact that the two camps have been arguing since the movie came out states that it isn't clear.
Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
Well some folks are "uncomfortable" with it being an offshoot of the TOS timeline. That tends to color their argument. For me its simple, the writers have said it was and they included dialog showing that. Which renders any argument saying otherwise moot. As I often do, I invoke Brooks' Law, "They are the writers, you are the audience. They outrank you."
Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
Doesn't explain the Stardate system changing in both universes and the new at warp effects.
Doesn't explain the Stardate system changing in both universes and the new at warp effects.
Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
They really dont have to explain "creative choices". But, looks and/or sounds better is probably the reason.
I repeat "They are the writers, you are the audience. They outrank you."
They really dont have to explain "creative choices". But, looks and/or sounds better is probably the reason.
Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
Different warp effect? Seriously??
I guess that disqualifies TOS, which had no warp effect whatsoever from being the same universe as the rest of Trek.
...then there's Wrath of Khan, where the warp effect at the start and end are quite different. Two universes for one film!
Different warp effect? Seriously??
I guess that disqualifies TOS, which had no warp effect whatsoever from being the same universe as the rest of Trek.
...then there's Wrath of Khan, where the warp effect at the start and end are quite different. Two universes for one film!
Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
That's a pretty big change to make after a single ship is destroyed by another (big) single ship that completely disappears. As shown in previous Trek, it's not that unusual for Starfleet to lose ships and personnel. After a (somewhat) similar attack in Doomsday Machine, the Federation council didn't apparently dissolve.
Pike, an educated man, clearly states that the Federation (and not Starfleet) is a peacekeeping armada. It's easier and simpler to believe that the parallel Federation was such from it's conception, rather than the prime Federation made this dramatic change from it's previous state. That the Federation's enormous populace would permit this level of change, again after a single event, is incomprehensible.
So, an entirely separate, almost parallel universe.
Because it was different, that mean that it was different.
Not it was different, that mean it is actual the same.
Also simply being the prime universe that diverged after a single event into an alternate universe doesn't explain how the Federation ceases to be an interstellar organization slash government and becomes a peacekeeping armada in only a quarter century.
That's a pretty big change to make after a single ship is destroyed by another (big) single ship that completely disappears. As shown in previous Trek, it's not that unusual for Starfleet to lose ships and personnel. After a (somewhat) similar attack in Doomsday Machine, the Federation council didn't apparently dissolve.
Pike, an educated man, clearly states that the Federation (and not Starfleet) is a peacekeeping armada. It's easier and simpler to believe that the parallel Federation was such from it's conception, rather than the prime Federation made this dramatic change from it's previous state. That the Federation's enormous populace would permit this level of change, again after a single event, is incomprehensible.
So, an entirely separate, almost parallel universe.
Let me guess, conceive of by a writer? Ultimately the consumer decides the validity of the product.
Or alternately,looks and/or sounds different primarily for the sake of being different. Which would seem to have been Abrams (and "The Writers") intent, at least partially. Which would be another nail in supporting the belief by some that the universe depicted in the last move (except for the mindmeld sequence) to be a entirely parallel universe that Spock and Nero traveled "across" to and not their own pasts at a previous point in their own universe's history.
Because it was different, that mean that it was different.
Not it was different, that mean it is actual the same.
Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
So... we're back to "every episode/film is it's own universe", then? Already "Minefield" and "Balance of Terror", "The Immunity Syndrome" and "Where Silence Has Lease", "True Q" and "The Q and the Grey" can't co-exist in the same Star Trek universe, despite decades of ridiculous fan explanations.
Or are we playing "those mistakes are okay, but these mistakes aren't"?
So... we're back to "every episode/film is it's own universe", then? Already "Minefield" and "Balance of Terror", "The Immunity Syndrome" and "Where Silence Has Lease", "True Q" and "The Q and the Grey" can't co-exist in the same Star Trek universe, despite decades of ridiculous fan explanations.
Or are we playing "those mistakes are okay, but these mistakes aren't"?
Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
To further complicate things we also have the NuEnterprise being able to go from Earth to Vulcan in just a few minutes, and Prime Scotty coming up with sub-space transporters, which NuScotty hasn't gotten quite right yet, and in the 2250s.
To further complicate things we also have the NuEnterprise being able to go from Earth to Vulcan in just a few minutes, and Prime Scotty coming up with sub-space transporters, which NuScotty hasn't gotten quite right yet, and in the 2250s.
Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
Which is consistant with the vast majority of Trek's warp speed journeys.
Spock Prime helped Scotty get his theories working earlier in this timeline. Not seeing any complication.
Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
Yes, "we're" in agreement that all the movie have a certain number of their own problems, just not to the degree as Eleven does.
From the begining of Enterprise through to the end of DS9, Starfleet vessels have been able to "see where they were going." An obvious plus, both for general travel and in tactical situations.
In TNG's "Unnatural Selections," the Enterprise Dee decelerated to sublight speed close aboard to a drifting Starfleet ship, even as they approached it while still at warp, the crew knew where it was. In Eleven, the nuEnterprise decelerated into Vulcan orbit completely blind, they might have known where the planet was, but they very obviously didn't know where the other Starfleet ships (or their wreckage) were.
I've compare this in the past to Han Solo decelerating into the debris field of Alderan. He knew where he was going, but not what was in front of him.
Pike similarly was ignorant of what was off his bow, his scanner could not scan ahead. Again why would Starfleet (because of the Narada) change to a inferior system than the one they were already (per the Enterprise series) using? They wouldn't, there's no logic behind it.
However if the parallel universe had the "bad" warp drive to start with, then a change wouldn't have had to take place.
No, "we're" not back to that theory. A very few posters on this board have been pulling that out of their back pockets repeatedly for months now in a vain attempt to divert attention from the last movie's many over-lapping flaws.
Yes, "we're" in agreement that all the movie have a certain number of their own problems, just not to the degree as Eleven does.
Excellent point USS Excelsior, if the incursion by the Narada was the cause of the changes in technology that "we've" all noticed in the film, then why would Starfleet alter their warp drive system into something that results in not being able to observe subspace while the ship is in warp flight?
From the begining of Enterprise through to the end of DS9, Starfleet vessels have been able to "see where they were going." An obvious plus, both for general travel and in tactical situations.
In TNG's "Unnatural Selections," the Enterprise Dee decelerated to sublight speed close aboard to a drifting Starfleet ship, even as they approached it while still at warp, the crew knew where it was. In Eleven, the nuEnterprise decelerated into Vulcan orbit completely blind, they might have known where the planet was, but they very obviously didn't know where the other Starfleet ships (or their wreckage) were.
I've compare this in the past to Han Solo decelerating into the debris field of Alderan. He knew where he was going, but not what was in front of him.
Pike similarly was ignorant of what was off his bow, his scanner could not scan ahead. Again why would Starfleet (because of the Narada) change to a inferior system than the one they were already (per the Enterprise series) using? They wouldn't, there's no logic behind it.
However if the parallel universe had the "bad" warp drive to start with, then a change wouldn't have had to take place.
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Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
"Faster than light, no left or right" said Tom Paris in Voyager. Yet we saw ships turning at FTL speeds in ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9 and even other VOY.
Surely some of Voyager must be in a different universe, too. Or doesn't that count?
This is the contradictory mess that is the Star Trek franchise. Selectively glossing-over some errors and retcons while endlessly nitpicking others is ridiculous. Saying "But this time it's worse!" is nonsense - track down some early Best of Trek books and read the complaints directed at TMP, and then again at Wrath of Khan.
"Faster than light, no left or right" said Tom Paris in Voyager. Yet we saw ships turning at FTL speeds in ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9 and even other VOY.
Surely some of Voyager must be in a different universe, too. Or doesn't that count?
This is the contradictory mess that is the Star Trek franchise. Selectively glossing-over some errors and retcons while endlessly nitpicking others is ridiculous. Saying "But this time it's worse!" is nonsense - track down some early Best of Trek books and read the complaints directed at TMP, and then again at Wrath of Khan.
Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
All space bearing sci-fi that I have seen has cradled the notion that there is many universes steming from the original one. You saw in stargate-Daedulus Variations. Defently saw it in Star Trek. The only place I haven't seen it is Star Wars, that because it was never important. Parallel universes are different than alternate timelines, which can happen within every Parallel universe. Alternate timeline-small differences, but for the most part unaffected. Parallel universe-large differences and different widespread affects.
All space bearing sci-fi that I have seen has cradled the notion that there is many universes steming from the original one. You saw in stargate-Daedulus Variations. Defently saw it in Star Trek. The only place I haven't seen it is Star Wars, that because it was never important. Parallel universes are different than alternate timelines, which can happen within every Parallel universe. Alternate timeline-small differences, but for the most part unaffected. Parallel universe-large differences and different widespread affects.
Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim
No separate universe needed, Paris was an idiot through-out the series. It's the way the character was consistently written.
Not at all, we frequently saw Voyager at FTL turning left, sometime right (and sometimes both) during various episodes. In addition Tom Paris, also frequently, was shown not to know exactly what he was talking about.
No separate universe needed, Paris was an idiot through-out the series. It's the way the character was consistently written.
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