How exactly does stardates work in Trek?

[infinix]

I know they said that time dilation doesn't apply when you are traveling at warp speed, but it still does apply in impulse speed, right? Star ships travel in impulse all the time and according to the TNG technical manual, full impulse was suppose to approximate the speed of light. So there is bound to be time dilation there.

For that matter, how exactly would calenders work? If you were born on a star ship or a star base, how would you mark that on a calender? This is made much worse since there are more than 150 different civilizations in the Federation and there has got to be as many different versions of years, months, days.

I can't even begin to think about how to unify that calender.

 

[The Librarian]

That's pretty much the entire idea behind stardates, actually. They provide a unified timekeeping system that doesn't rely on the calendars of any particular world or culture, although 1000 stardates just happen to line up with one Earth year. The bigger problem is that sometime between the TOS movies and TNG the stardate system seems to have been reset, but after that it's reasonably consistent although some episodes slip out of order due to production or airing changes.

 

[Bishop76]

That's because there was no set rhyme nor reason to the Stardates in TOS, they just made each episode higher than the last. When TNG started, they began to use a system. They started with a 4 (for the 24th century) the next number was the season of TNG (or a year of real time) and then random numbers that would get higher as the season went on.

So, stardate 45003 would be early 5th season of TNG and Stardate 51967 would be late season 6 of DS9 or season 4 of Voyager.

 

[-Brett-]

No one knows exactly how they work. All we know is that in the TNG era shows the first digit corresponds to a decade and the second corresponds to a year. Beyond that, it gets pretty fuzzy.

TNG apparently starts 40 years after someone decided to reset the clock to zero.

 

[Sector 7]

Stardates were a made up thing, which had no rhyme or reason originally. Later, when TNG came along, they decided to use an actual system. The last movie used the Stardate system which became popular when I was in high school (back in the 1970s): 1103.03 = 11th year, 3rd month, 3rd day = 03-03-2011.

 

[infinix]

I think people have misunderstood my original post.

Yes, I understand the intent of why stardates were used. However, my question was about how exactly it could be used.

The concept of DAY should logically vary a great deal from member planet to member planet. As such, I can't fathom how exactly a date system as we understand it would work. What I imagine is that Stardates are really reserved for those serving in Starfleet whereas each member planet still holds on to their own calender and conversions are made as needed.

Which would make inter-stellar commerce quite difficult since contract signing dates would be all over the place. On this end, I imagine there would be a common scale established not based on each star system's date, but rather the age of the galaxy. So each Federation member planet would agree on the age of the galaxy, and a galactic standard calender would be based solely on the carbon (or some exotic element) half-life. This would be the only way to have some semblance of a standard calender.

 

[The Wormhole]

What I don't like is the new stardate system in Trek XI. which is basically just the Earth year.

 

[T'Girl]

... not based on each star system's date, but rather the age of the galaxy.

The creation of the Federation might be a more manageable date, especially in terms of the year. Having Picard living in the early third century of the Federation (a three digit year) would be better than Picard living in the thirteenth billionth year (eleven digits).

Alternately, Star Trek make frequent references to older cultures in the galaxy, if there was an older, established dating system in place when the Federation was organized, the Federation might simply have adopted it the way the Gregorian calendar was adopted by non-western peoples

each member planet still holds on to their own calender and conversions are made as needed.

While the majority of countries on Earth use the Gregorian calendar, various cultures and countries also have a number of traditional calendars too, used to observe celebrations, festivals and religious occasions. The Solar Hejri calendar, Saka calendar, Hebrew calendar and others.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Stardates were a made up thing, which had no rhyme or reason originally. Later, when TNG came along, they decided to use an actual system. The last movie used the Stardate system which became popular when I was in high school (back in the 1970s): 1103.03 = 11th year, 3rd month, 3rd day = 03-03-2011.

Do you mean "Nemesis" or do you mean "Star Trek" with Chris Pine and Zach Quinto when you say "the last movie"?

I only ask because I'm dense and I find ambiguity in your comment where others might not, and I don't think either of those movies used a YYMM.DD stardate system.

I can't remember how Nemesis worked, but "Star Trek" clearly used a YYYY.xx format. For example, Stardate 2258.12 was the year 2258 and some fraction of that year later.

(BTW I used to like to use your YYMM.DD system in HS as well.)

 

[F. King Daniel]

Weird factoid: The Xindi used stardates before humans did, at least as far back as 2153. Thus the weird "space day" and "space month" (season) lengths are so because they're not based on Earth days or months.

 

[The Wormhole]

Weird factoid: The Xindi used stardates before humans did, at least as far back as 2153. Thus the weird "space day" and "space month" (season) lengths are so because they're not based on Earth days or months.

We know the Xindi used the term "Stardate" to keep track of time, but that doesn't mean it's the same system the Federation eventually used. After all, I doubt a Xindi year is also 365 Earth days.

 

[datalogan]

I think full impulse is only equivalent to about 1/4th the speed of light, which limits the time-dilation effects you were concerned about.

In fact, it's occasionally been mentioned that the impulse engine was over-powered and ran at higher than it's rating, causing time-dilation effects. Destiny book series is the most significant reference that I know of off the top of my head.

I do think that minor, minor time-dilation effects do happen from time to time. That's why Starfleet vessels regularly check their ship timepieces against "stationary" comms stations. (Mentioned most notably in Cause And Effect and Aquiel, I think.)

When significant time-dilation effects do occur, I think records are adjusted so that people are celebrating their birthday closest to the actual yearly passing that makes sense.
It was actually suggested in a novel that young (Yeoman) Janice Rand had been on a ship that went through relativistic time dilation that was not caught in the records. So while the records said she was 18 and old enough to join Starfleet, she had actually only lived 16 years from her prospective. Sorta makes you rethink the scenes between her and Kirk.

 

[The Wormhole]

^^Novels aren't canon. As far as I can remember on screen nothing has been stated about impulse causing relativistic time dilation. And Rand looked a bit older than 16 on screen.

 

[Sector 7]

Stardates were a made up thing, which had no rhyme or reason originally. Later, when TNG came along, they decided to use an actual system. The last movie used the Stardate system which became popular when I was in high school (back in the 1970s): 1103.03 = 11th year, 3rd month, 3rd day = 03-03-2011.

Do you mean "Nemesis" or do you mean "Star Trek" with Chris Pine and Zach Quinto when you say "the last movie"?

I only ask because I'm dense and I find ambiguity in your comment where others might not, and I don't think either of those movies used a YYMM.DD stardate system.

I can't remember how Nemesis worked, but "Star Trek" clearly used a YYYY.xx format. For example, Stardate 2258.12 was the year 2258 and some fraction of that year later.

(BTW I used to like to use your YYMM.DD system in HS as well.)

The last Star Trek movie filmed was Star Trek (2009). The other one you referred to, Nemesis, should never have been made, IMO. I hope this clarifies the issue for you.

 

[T'Girl]

I doubt a Xindi year is also 365 Earth days

There nothing that says that stardates are figured based upon one Earth year, one digit being 365 Earth days, any more than one season of any of the shows represented exactly one earth year. Especially given that some episode's had durations of days and weeks.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Stardates were a made up thing, which had no rhyme or reason originally. Later, when TNG came along, they decided to use an actual system. The last movie used the Stardate system which became popular when I was in high school (back in the 1970s): 1103.03 = 11th year, 3rd month, 3rd day = 03-03-2011.

Do you mean "Nemesis" or do you mean "Star Trek" with Chris Pine and Zach Quinto when you say "the last movie"?

I only ask because I'm dense and I find ambiguity in your comment where others might not, and I don't think either of those movies used a YYMM.DD stardate system.

I can't remember how Nemesis worked, but "Star Trek" clearly used a YYYY.xx format. For example, Stardate 2258.12 was the year 2258 and some fraction of that year later.

(BTW I used to like to use your YYMM.DD system in HS as well.)

The last Star Trek movie filmed was Star Trek (2009). The other one you referred to, Nemesis, should never have been made, IMO. I hope this clarifies the issue for you.

Please understand the reason for my confusion.

You had said:

... Later, when TNG came along, they decided to use an actual system. The last movie

That led me to believe you were talking about the TNG movies specifically. My confusion was further compounded by the fact that neither movie actually used the stardate system that you were describing.

Nevertheless, I definitely agree with you that Nemesis should never have been made.

 

[The Wormhole]

I doubt a Xindi year is also 365 Earth days

There nothing that says that stardates are figured based upon one Earth year, one digit being 365 Earth days, any more than one season of any of the shows represented exactly one earth year. Especially given that some episode's had durations of days and weeks.

Okay, I admit I just follow the Star Trek Chronology's example of making each season the same as one year.

 

[neozeks]

On this end, I imagine there would be a common scale established not based on each star system's date, but rather the age of the galaxy. So each Federation member planet would agree on the age of the galaxy, and a galactic standard calender would be based solely on the carbon (or some exotic element) half-life.

Well, stardates are probably exactly that galactic standard calendar you talk about.

What I have more trouble with are smaller units of time. What exactly does a 'minute' or 'hour' mean? Is it a human minute (or even precisely, an Earth minute, since humans have colonized other planets too and some of them may use different timekeeping systems there)? A Vulcan minute? A 'standard' minute, however that one is determined?

Actually, those units being different could sort of explain all those cases when we hear something like "they have only 30 seconds left" and then we see at least two minutes passing and such.

 

[Shatnertage]

Re: How exactly does stardates work in Trek?

Very nicely, thank you.

 

[TrekGuide.com]

I'm not trying to derail this thread, but I have been working on my own Stardate theory recently.

My conclusions, based on actual quotes from actual aired episodes, are as follows:

1. The Voyager episode "HOMESTEAD" (Stardate 54868.6) must have taken place in April 2378, the 315th anniversary of first contact with Vulcans on April 5, 2063.

2. TNG episode "Data's Day" (Stardate 44390.1) took place on November 7, 2366, during the Hindu Festival of Lights.

3. Stardate 00000.0 began on July 5, 2318, 12:00 hours

4. The highest possible Stardate-to-year ratio is 918.23186 Stardates per year.

To see all my mathematical calculations proving the four points above, see my Web site:
http://trekguide.com/Stardates.htm#TNG

The site also includes JavaScript Stardate Calculators based on the above facts, so that you can calculate any date in The Next Generation system or also The Original Series system. (I have yet to create a consistent date calculator for the movie Stardates.)

I've been working on my Stardate Calculator for close to 10 years, based (like many others) on the arbitrary assumption that there are exactly 1,000.0 Stardates in any Earth year, which was causing all sorts of irregularities and conflicts.

But then I realized that the only two episodes that mentioned both Stardates and specific holidays with known calendar dates -- "Data's Day" and "HOMESTEAD" -- could be used to establish the true Stardate-to-year ratio: 918.23186 Stardates per year.

Given these data points, basic arithmetic can be used to calculate the date for any Stardate in The Next Generation system.

http://TrekGuide.com/Stardates.htm