Falling In Love Over The Internet

[The Mirrorball Man]

Ah. I presumed from the outset when you said "fictional character" you meant a person who was known to be fictional - Edward Cullen or Hermione Granger or Han Solo, etc.

That is what I meant. You then introduced the notion that having some kind of real time interaction was an essential part of falling in love, and I tried to show that even in those cases, fictional characters exist.

 

[Thestral]

Real time interaction with a presumed real person is an essential part of "falling in love over the internet" - that is, people fall in love over chat, message boards, etc. because of the real time interactions. And 99% of the time, known fictional characters can't provide that (they obviously can't provide the "presumed real" part).

Sure I agree that real time interaction doesn't mean a lack of fiction - but that's not at all limited to the Internet. So I'm not sure why you introduced that into the equation.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Sure I agree that real time interaction doesn't mean a lack of fiction - but that's not at all limited to the Internet. So I'm not sure why you introduced that into the equation.

Yeah, I wasn't very clear. My point was that if you can fall in love with just a fragment of someone's identity, such as the limited exchange of information brought by online interactions, isn't it possible to fall in love with other fragments? A smell, a picture, a body, or an entirely fictional character?

 

[FPAlpha]

Yes it can happen and happened to me too though not before we had met and had seen each other quit a few times before "it" struck.

I pity those who still think that chats, message boards or dating sites are for losers and nerds. I'd prefer this over going to a bar hoping to land that one in a million woman who goes to bar and let's guys hit on her without being a loser or skank herself.

Usually you meet people online in areas of similar interest so there is common ground from the get go and you don't need to overcome the first date awkwardness of hastily and forcefully trying to find common ground and keeping the conversation going.

One however has to also be careful since the internet is also quite anonymous and there are many idiots out there.. just because someone is nice doesn't mean he can't be a jerk in real life.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

You can have a physical reaction to someone without sharing the same space though. And even otherwise, I don't see it as separating the two so much as the absence of physical sensation.

You're playing with words. If falling in love is possible in the absence of physical sensation, then physical sensation and social/intellectual interaction are separated.

Dude. Have you not heard of phone sex?

 

[Thestral]

Sure I agree that real time interaction doesn't mean a lack of fiction - but that's not at all limited to the Internet. So I'm not sure why you introduced that into the equation.

Yeah, I wasn't very clear. My point was that if you can fall in love with just a fragment of someone's identity, such as the limited exchange of information brought by online interactions, isn't it possible to fall in love with other fragments? A smell, a picture, a body, or an entirely fictional character?

Fair nuff. But I'm still not sure why you'd bring this up as a detriment to Internet romance when it's a problem that's inherent in relationship - that is, trusting people to be who they say they are.

 

[infinix]

The short answer: It depends on the person. Everyone is different.

The long answer: In any relation, cyber or other wise, each party always has some expectation of the other party. As I get to know a person, I would always form a certain expectation about this person. I would consider myself falling in love when my expectation of this person meets my expectation of who I want as a mate.

In a normal relationship with physical interactions, you don't have to worry too much about building up the expectation because the person is right in front of you. Obviously you could meet a player and get screwed because the person is putting out fake signals. However, it is much easier for any mature person to spot a fake in a normal relationship.

Now, the problem with cyber relationship is that you are forced to build your expectation on nothing but what the other person chooses to reveal to you. In any type of online interaction, especially one with a romantic tint, each party is always careful to make sure the information sent across is deliberate and thought out. Its very difficult to have a true, real-time interaction (especially without web cams) and out right impossible read between the line due to lack of facial expression and vocal intonations.

To OP: Talk to this girl on the phone first.

To Warped9: I really urge you NOT to go to Russia alone. Go with a buddy or your brother or something. In this day and age, you really have no choice but to play it safe.

 

[Warped9]

Unfortunately we haven't been able to do the webcam thing yet because she doesn't have access to one.

Major red flag!! Web cams are so cheap and ubiquitious now that there's really no excuse. I'd be wary at least.

Mr Awe

It's not the same in Russia. Things that we spend money on and think nothing of aren't necessarily as accessible there. Here, we assume most people have access to a computer, which isn't strictly true. Most people here do not have a computer in their home, but we have the illusion that they do because the internet and computers are so integrated in many of our lives. But most people here do have access to a computer either at home, at work, at school or at an internet cafe.

In Russia there are far fewer people with a computer at home. For most access will be either at work or a cafe.

And I've already verified she's for real and not a scammer. I didn't like doing it, but I had to be sure.

 

[RJDiogenes]

It's very possible for two people to be in love and find that their lives are not compatible, whether they meet on the Internet or not.

That's true but it's a completely different debate.

Not at all. At least part of the question is whether or not people can fall in love without knowing whether or not they're compatible; if they can fall in love knowing that they're incompatible, they can fall in love without knowing if they're compatible.

To the fictional character.... I don´t think that is similar, after all the fictional character is... fictional...not real... you can never meet the character in real or hold conversations with him.
An "online-person" is real, you can have real conversation, you can meet, if you want, the other has a life on his/her own, own dreams, owns plans, own hopes, own ways to see the world... a fictional character does not have all of this, cause it is just made-up by someone. How can falling in love with a real person online and falling in love with a fictional character be similar?

The real person's dreams, plans, hopes and own ways to see the world are made up as well. See, the only two things that separate fictional characters from real people are the fact that fictional characters don't have a body or a subconscious. Without access to either of these, the differences are anecdotal.

No, because, as has been pointed out, one can't interact with fictional characters.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Yeah, I wasn't very clear. My point was that if you can fall in love with just a fragment of someone's identity, such as the limited exchange of information brought by online interactions, isn't it possible to fall in love with other fragments? A smell, a picture, a body, or an entirely fictional character?

Fair nuff. But I'm still not sure why you'd bring this up as a detriment to Internet romance when it's a problem that's inherent in relationship - that is, trusting people to be who they say they are.

No, again, what I'm talking about here is something different. What I'm talking about is that through the internet, you only have a partial access to the real human experience, since the real human experience has a very strong physical and sensual component, that is completely absent from online relationships.

It's not about trusting people to be who they are, it's about meeting people and interacting with them in physical space, which is a much more complex and fulfilling experience than exchanging emails or speaking on the phone or other kinds of long-distance forms of communication.

For the last time, if it is possible to fall in love with what is not much more than a voice, there's nothing that should prevent people from falling in love with an image, a body, a descriptive text, or any other incomplete sample of a person's essence.

No, because, as has been pointed out, one can't interact with fictional characters.

We've already addressed that.

 

[Thestral]

No, again, what I'm talking about here is something different. What I'm talking about is that through the internet, you only have a partial access to the real human experience, since the real human experience has a very strong physical and sensual component, that is completely absent from online relationships.

It's not about trusting people to be who they are, it's about meeting people and interacting with them in physical space, which is a much more complex and fulfilling experience than exchanging emails or speaking on the phone or other kinds of long-distance forms of communication.

So not just a problem with online relationship, but any sort of long-distance relationship. Physical presence - embodied reality and embodied interaction - is the key here and without that element all relationship is incomplete. Am I reading you right? So, is physical presence necessary to continue the relationship or simply to cement it? For example, what about people whose work requires them to be separate for lengthy periods of time?

For the last time, if it is possible to fall in love with what is not much more than a voice, there's nothing that should prevent people from falling in love with an image, a body, a descriptive text, or any other incomplete sample of a person's essence.

Well, not to get too far into metaphysics, but a voice or a body can at least convey something of a person's essence because of the dynamic and relational nature of those things that an image or descriptive text couldn't. It's still incomplete, but it's a much greater proportion of completeness. And I'd personally say the voice (e-mail, phone, webcam, letters, chatroom) is even closer to the actual person than the body, though the voice is shaped and molded by the embodied nature of humanity and so the body is an indispensable and critical piece; but that is metaphysical I guess - and probably varies from person to person.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

And then there's the objectum sexuality people:

http://www.objectum-sexuality.org/

"This international website about objectùm-sexuality, (widely known as Objektophil in Germany), is designed to offer a support network for objectùm-sexuals (Objektophile) and education for friends and family about objectùm-sexuality (Objektophil), and insight into our way of accepting, living, and adapting as individuals who are in love with objects. "

 

[RJDiogenes]

No, because, as has been pointed out, one can't interact with fictional characters.

We've already addressed that.

No, you haven't. You've jumped from some notion of incomplete experience to non-existent experience. Whether your incomplete experience with someone is limited to the Internet, letter writing or the break room at work, you're still interacting with a Human being; that's impossible with a fictional character.

 

[ElBurro]

My sister and her boyfriend met on the internet and have been living together for two years and are trying for a baby. My dad is in a relationship with a Japanese woman he met online. She's been over here to visit him a few times and my dad is talking about marriage even though he swore he'd never remarry after my mum. And my brother has an online girlfriend in America but they haven't met yet.

Two things to be learnt from that - 1) it can and does happen and 2) my family spend way too much time on the internet

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

So not just a problem with online relationship, but any sort of long-distance relationship. Physical presence - embodied reality and embodied interaction - is the key here and without that element all relationship is incomplete. Am I reading you right? So, is physical presence necessary to continue the relationship or simply to cement it? For example, what about people whose work requires them to be separate for lengthy periods of time?

Yes, that's exactly my point of view. In my opinion, true attraction can only spring from a complete interaction, that encompasses all aspects of the human experience. Once the attraction is there, though, the relationship can go in any direction. Some people manage to make relationships work even when separated for a long period of time.

Well, not to get too far into metaphysics, but a voice or a body can at least convey something of a person's essence because of the dynamic and relational nature of those things that an image or descriptive text couldn't. It's still incomplete, but it's a much greater proportion of completeness. And I'd personally say the voice (e-mail, phone, webcam, letters, chatroom) is even closer to the actual person than the body, though the voice is shaped and molded by the embodied nature of humanity and so the body is an indispensable and critical piece; but that is metaphysical I guess - and probably varies from person to person.

Yes, we're all different after all, and we all have different priorities. But we're all animals, flesh and blood creatures, and I am wary of those who pretend that relationships with no physical component whatsoever are genuine.

No, you haven't. You've jumped from some notion of incomplete experience to non-existent experience. Whether your incomplete experience with someone is limited to the Internet, letter writing or the break room at work, you're still interacting with a Human being; that's impossible with a fictional character.

I'm a 37 year-old Swiss guy. If I pretended to be a 26 year-old Belgian girl, you wouldn't know any better, and you would be interacting with a fictional character.

 

[Mr Awe]

Unfortunately we haven't been able to do the webcam thing yet because she doesn't have access to one.

Major red flag!! Web cams are so cheap and ubiquitious now that there's really no excuse. I'd be wary at least.

Mr Awe

It's not the same in Russia. Things that we spend money on and think nothing of aren't necessarily as accessible there. Here, we assume most people have access to a computer, which isn't strictly true. Most people here do not have a computer in their home, but we have the illusion that they do because the internet and computers are so integrated in many of our lives. But most people here do have access to a computer either at home, at work, at school or at an internet cafe.

In Russia there are far fewer people with a computer at home. For most access will be either at work or a cafe.

And I've already verified she's for real and not a scammer. I didn't like doing it, but I had to be sure.

It sounds like you have your eyes open about this, so kudos for that. I'd still be wary but at least you're checking it out. There must be Internet cafes though?

Mr Awe

 

[Warped9]

^^ Yes, there are. However I have two other issues to deal with: being a civil attorney she works long hours and there is an eleven hour time difference between us. The window for communication in real time isn't very big. Essentially when I'm working she is sleeping and vice-versa. Bummer.

But we manage.

 

[Thestral]

Yes, that's exactly my point of view. In my opinion, true attraction can only spring from a complete interaction, that encompasses all aspects of the human experience. Once the attraction is there, though, the relationship can go in any direction. Some people manage to make relationships work even when separated for a long period of time.

Well, when you say "all aspects of the human experience" what exactly do you mean? I assume you won't say deaf and blind people can't fall in love, so are sight and sound not a necessary part of the human experience?

I'm a 37 year-old Swiss guy. If I pretended to be a 26 year-old Belgian girl, you wouldn't know any better, and you would be interacting with a fictional character.

That's not a problem of incomplete experience - that's a problem of dishonesty. If you successfully pretended to be a 26 year-old Belgian girl, you're no different than a man who claim to be John Smith when in fact he's Mike Jones except in the way your victim's experience is incomplete.

 

[Kirk's_Tights]

I honestly have a hard time believing that people can be in love with someone they have never even met. Sure, there are a lot of circumstances in which people who 'met' on the internet and 'fell in love' meet up and really do end up loving each other but, I think the 'I love you but never met you' thing is more lust.....how can you be in love with someone you have never met? There is a difference between actually spending physical time together and just sitting behind a computer screen and talking. It's almost like you are falling in love with an image.....

It's like my hate for Justin Bieber. Hell yeah I go around saying how much I hate the kid but I don't LITERALLY hate the kid himself because I have never met him or hung out with him. The hate for him is actually towards his music, not him as a person. He could be one of the nicest kids to ever grace the earth and we might hang out and be OMG BEST BUDDIES.

You just can't hate or like a person you have never met...you can hate or love things people do but, I don't know, those are pretty strong words used to describe people you haven't met....

 

[RJDiogenes]

No, you haven't. You've jumped from some notion of incomplete experience to non-existent experience. Whether your incomplete experience with someone is limited to the Internet, letter writing or the break room at work, you're still interacting with a Human being; that's impossible with a fictional character.

I'm a 37 year-old Swiss guy. If I pretended to be a 26 year-old Belgian girl, you wouldn't know any better, and you would be interacting with a fictional character.

No, I'd be interacting with a liar; but still a real living Human being.