Watching Babylon 5 for the first time... *Spoilers, duh*

[Reverend]

Z'ha'dum is also thinly "borrowed" from LOTR. I forget what it is in LOTR... Khazadum?

BTW Jeff did you get the symbolism of Londo's fear of the spider creature which probably looks like a Shadow?

^ I can't find it at the moment, but I'm pretty sure I've read a post by JMS where he basically denies any intentional reference in that particular case.

"Ship of Tears"

Well, that was a definite step-up from "Sic Transit Vir", in any case.

Walter Koenig continues to bedazzle me. He's really made his character his own, imbuing all the shades of grey he can muster into damn near every line. I was interested in learning more about him. JMS has clearly gone out of his way to give us a very ambivalent character here. I still concur with Ivanova, though -- at some point he's bound to betray them. At the least, it's certainly not the kind of thing that isn't at the forefront of his mind.

So the Shadows are afraid of a little mind-walking, eh? I like this. It helps to level the playing field without going over-the-top about it. And I like how the Shadow vessel backing off was designed to make the viewer question Bester's motives all over again, only to have the (apparent) answer something outside his jurisdiction, after all.

What I found most interesting of all were the scenes with G'Kar. Delenn is right... he has come a long way. I was thrilled to see him welcomed into the War Council at last. About damn time.

Small point but it's not so much the Shadows themselves that are vulnerable to teeps but their ships. More specifically the being wired up inside the ship. Also, it's not a coincidence that telepaths are so effective...more on that later.

As for Bester, he's easily the most interesting character outside of the regular cast. Hell, he's more interesting than half the main characters full stop.

Luckily the show doesn't overuse him so he never stops being interesting, but for those who want to know more about him, the second book in the Psi Corps trilogy basically tells his entire background right up until leaving for B5 to chase down Jason Ironheart. The third book...well if I even told you what that was about it'd be a spoiler.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

^ I can't find it at the moment, but I'm pretty sure I've read a post by JMS where he basically denies any intentional reference in that particular case.

Let me help someone else for a change...

Is the name "Z'ha'dum" a reference to Khazad-dum from "The Lord of the Rings?"
Not really, no...I always imagined that Z'ha'dum was originally the Minbari word for the place, and the Z'ha has echoes in Entil-zha and Isil-zha. The dum (doom) part is obvious. Not to say I wasn't aware of Khazad-dum, but it wasn't on my mind at the time.

http://midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/guide/024.html

 

[Reverend]

^Beat me to it. I'd just found the original message here.

 

[Brian]

In related news, Lady Gaga says "Born This Way" was in no way borrowed from Madonna's "Express Yourself".

 

[Bishop76]

Spoiler: Babylon 5 season 4

Yeah, also the part in season 4 where they have to retake Earth is in no way like the scouring of the Shire. I just find it hard to believe that he didn't base a ton of this show on LotR. I don't think that's a negative thing, though. It's just a different telling of the story.

 

[Angel4576]

My view on the LotR/B5 comparison is fairly straight forward - I don't care.

If you're going to borrow, you may as well and take from the best.

 

[RoJoHen]

My view on the LotR/B5 comparison is fairly straight forward - I don't care.

If you're going to borrow, you may as well and take from the best.

I actually enjoy the LOTR similarities.

 

[Bishop76]

Oh, I agree - I have no problem with it at all - again, I always thought that was what it was supposed to be and had no idea that there was any sort of bad blood about it - heh

 

[Reverend]

There's a difference between drawing inspiration from something and ripping it off wholesale. I think at the time there was a tiny yet rather vocal minority who were implying the latter was the case. As I recall most of it was based around some comparisons that rather stretched the bounds of credibility. Indeed most of what I read was so nebulous it could probably be applied elsewhere to "prove" Stephen King had been plagiarising Shakespeare.

 

[Mr Light]

I love B5 but there is a very strong "influence" from Lord of the Rings.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Sic Transit Vir is a fine character piece for the character, I hadn't thought about the resolution with the Narn, but you're right about it making a better episode to have dealt with the fiancee and the pouch brother there. I loved his scene with Ivanova when he's looking for relationship tips.

Ship of Tears brings G'Kar's and Delenn's relationship to a great climax, especially after his failed attempt to get her to work with him in 'The Gathering' Katsulas brings fantastic poignancy to the revelation of what the Humans and Minbari have known all this time while he's struggling to save the Narns from extinction.

 

[JoeD80]

The similar myths lend a resonating flavor, but are not the whole of a story's construction. Joe has read a lot more than just Lord of the Rings. Other influences are to be found in the show which would make it hard to be based on only one story, and in fact Joe himself has mentioned about 8 or 9 others in passing. It's about constructing new art from a few different pieces of old art and adding a little bit of new flavor, not just picking one old piece and running with it.

 

[Neroon]

There is definitely a LOTR influence in B5's story, but is it LOTR itself or the classic hero's journey on which LOTR is based more or less? Is jms drawing inspiration from LOTR or from the archetype?

 

[RoJoHen]

There is definitely a LOTR influence in B5's story, but is it LOTR itself or the classic hero's journey on which LOTR is based more or less? Is jms drawing inspiration from LOTR or from the archetype?

Well, there are some pretty specific plot points and vocabulary that come directly from LOTR.

 

[Neroon]

There is definitely a LOTR influence in B5's story, but is it LOTR itself or the classic hero's journey on which LOTR is based more or less? Is jms drawing inspiration from LOTR or from the archetype?

Well, there are some pretty specific plot points and vocabulary that come directly from LOTR.

But what I'm saying is that LOTR - personal favorite , never doubt that - is itself based on a much older story. So it's logical to say that the basis for B5's story is more based on that than on LOTR. The specifics are in part LOTR, but the overall story is older.

 

[RoJoHen]

Well, sure. I'd say most of the LOTR stuff is contained to Season 3 anyway.

 

[Neroon]

It'd be interesting to have someone who is a true LOTR "expert", someone who knows thework and its background well, to watch B5 and comment on what they find in its story

 

[Gov Kodos]

While Babylon 5 uses some terms and lines from LOTR the overall universes really only have that making any similarity superficial. LOTR is playing out the Song of Illuvatar and everything is in service to him. The Babylon 5 universe isn't following a divinely created destiny.

 

[Mr Light]

^^ That's a spoiler for Jeff...

 

[Reverend]

There is definitely a LOTR influence in B5's story, but is it LOTR itself or the classic hero's journey on which LOTR is based more or less? Is jms drawing inspiration from LOTR or from the archetype?

Well, there are some pretty specific plot points and vocabulary that come directly from LOTR.

Only two direct quotes that I'm aware of and both are Gandalf lines and (rather appropriately I think) are said by techno-mages. I could be forgetting something of course.