• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Watching Babylon 5 for the first time... *Spoilers, duh*

I'm going to start adding some much-needed bold to the episode titles from hereon out. Consider it a bit of a budget increase due to relative popularity with the readers!

That's right, I'm pretending it's all because of you and not because I should have been doing this from the start!

"A Late Delivery from Avalon"

We start with Garibaldi making me hungry for pizza while some guy who I can't help but think I saw in a few episodes of SeaQuest cuts himself in black-and-white. This is looking to be an... interesting episode. :wtf:

Whoa, SeaQuest guy is Arthur. Alright, this is getting positively TOS.

Except not. In a very Babylon 5 twist, what the man 'Arthur' is dealing with is a pretty serious psychosis. And I can't say as I blame him. What a rut to be in -- firing the shots that ignited the Earth-Minbari War.

The scenes in Down Below are among my favorites for this episode. Sir G'Kar is a riot in particular. The ultimate resolution is one I saw coming from as soon as the great parody was revealed; having Delenn don the role of 'Lady in the Lake' was something I was practically screaming at the television by the time Marcus and Stephen figured it out. Still, it was a worthy end. I liked Marcus and his little roleplaying rant as a finisher, although I'm not sure how I feel about throwing Kosh in for a cameo. It's like JMS wanted us all to wonder if there was, indeed, more to this than met the eye when what met the eye was so completely acceptable.

Meanwhile, Garibaldi challenges the post office and Sheridan and Ivanova hammer out a deal with the Non-Aligned Worlds. Neither of these stories did much for me, but they were great padding. I especially liked the security guard's quip about how they'd be in real trouble if they went up against the postal service.

This is one of those episodes where I like a lot of it but not enough to say it's one I won't soon forget.

"Sic Transit Vir"

Okay, first things first. That establishing shot of Londo, the first time we see him, as he's rising from behind a counter swatting -- that's my nomination for his character flash in the fourth season's opening credits. I know, I know -- I'm really, really late here so it's not going to happen -- but if I were watching this first-time, I'd totally shoot JMS a line. It's so... Londo! :lol:

Tongue firmly in cheek, mind. At any rate.

Mr. Cotto becomes a Manny on the next Babylon 5!

This is probably the most quotable episode of the series I haven't actually liked so far. It has a lot of one-liners going for it and I do dig the idea of a nice, specifically-mentioned calm before any further storms on the horizon. I like Stephen Furst getting a great bit of characterization and a full-blown chance to prove his acting chops are ever-present, because I think he really succeeded here.

That brings us to the plot itself. And I have to say, it's a good one... until the denouement. I was left incredibly frustrated by the lack of actually seeing how the fourth act is resolved. After a deliciously monstrous speech, well-recited by the actress behind Vir's wife-to-be, in which Vir is put in such an awkward position... nothing. We skip ahead to an angry Londo, never seeing what becomes of the poor Narn.

I think it's obvious what happens, of course, but this is a missing scene I find vital. Furst was denied the chance to really flex his muscle here because watching Vir decline as his fiancée is torn by his decision, watching Vir untie the Narn and the subsequent fallout, seems to me like the kind of thing I would have ensured made it into the episode. I guess it just boils down to how much I detested the jump to the resolution.
 
Re: "A Late Delivery from Avalon": like many of the off-format episodes I just adore this one. I love G'Kar doing what's right even without the prospect of any gain for his people and I loved his rapport with 'Arthur'. It's also one of my favorite soundtracks.

(I did mention that JMS wanted Michael York as Sheridan, didn't I? Also for one other character who Jeff hasn't met yet.)

This episode also features one of the great silent moments when Delenn accepts the sword. You can just feel her compassion and see it in her eyes.

Jan
 
Re: Michael York; I can see why.

Oh, woe of me not to mention the soundtrack. You know, for the teaser, I almost felt like Bear McCreary had (as a teenager, no less...) taken up temporary musical responsibilities. Its piece felt very urgent and primal despite the medieval influences.
 
Oh, woe of me not to mention the soundtrack. You know, for the teaser, I almost felt like Bear McCreary had (as a teenager, no less...) taken up temporary musical responsibilities. Its piece felt very urgent and primal despite the medieval influences.

As it happens, I've got the director's cut of this episode. Very seldom is any music on those tapes but there is music in some of the flashback scenes that's *different* from the finished episode.

Jan
 
Gonna hit the sack... exhausted. I'll watch more tomorrow!

Well?!?!? Don't leave us hanging with nothing more to do than wonder about ship designations! :)

Jan

Blasphemer! Ship designations are the most important and fascinating aspect of...oh who am I kidding, I can't keep that up with a straight face. :guffaw:

The scenes in Down Below are among my favorites for this episode. Sir G'Kar is a riot in particular. The ultimate resolution is one I saw coming from as soon as the great parody was revealed; having Delenn don the role of 'Lady in the Lake' was something I was practically screaming at the television by the time Marcus and Stephen figured it out. Still, it was a worthy end. I liked Marcus and his little roleplaying rant as a finisher, although I'm not sure how I feel about throwing Kosh in for a cameo. It's like JMS wanted us all to wonder if there was, indeed, more to this than met the eye when what met the eye was so completely acceptable.

The bit with Delenn is one of those thing on B5 that takes on a whole new meaning on the second watch through.

As for the bit at the end, I can't help wonder if that's a jab at some of the fans. As I recall back when the show was on there was this little knot of people on the net that insisted B5 was a 1:1 rip off of 'Lord of the Rings' (Sheridan is Aragorn, Delenn is Arwen, Morden is the mouth of Sauron etc.), mostly just because JMS acknowledged he was a Tolkien fan and borrowed the term "Ranger." I could be wrong of course.

As for ''Sic Transit Vir', it a strange on and I tend to agree that the little moments are the most enjoyable part. It's one of those rare cases where the sum of the parts are greater than the whole. Oh and this may very well be my favourite line in the whole series: -

"If you see something this big with eight legs coming your way, let me know. I have to kill it before it develops language skills."
 
As for the bit at the end, I can't help wonder if that's a jab at some of the fans. As I recall back when the show was on there was this little knot of people on the net that insisted B5 was a 1:1 rip off of 'Lord of the Rings' (Sheridan is Aragorn, Delenn is Arwen, Morden is the mouth of Sauron etc.), mostly just because JMS acknowledged he was a Tolkien fan and borrowed the term "Ranger." I could be wrong of course.

Got it in one, Mr. Garibaldi.


From the Lurker's Guide:
JMS said:
Was the "who is Morgana Le Fay?" scene a dig at people on the net who say B5 is just some other story with different trappings?
The references given (he said vaguely, to avoid spoiling anybody) were first and foremost intentional to the story and to set up stuff...but as I wrote it, the way this stuff has been discussed online did come to mind, and on some level it was probably a slight *plink*, yes.
Sort of a "yeah, well, TWO can play at that game, and most of you missed THIS particular analogy, so THERE."

I am in serious need of a vacation, I think....

I think there was another place where he mentioned he did it specifically because he's seen, "Oh, Babylon 5 is Lord of the Rings in space" or "The Bible in space" or "The Little Engine That Could in space" or whatever, but no one had ever done "King Arthur in space."
 
^It's doubly ironic when you consider that LoTR was accused of being a direct WWII allegory, something I recall Tolkien denied rather strongly. I think some people just have a chronic lack of imagination.
 
Babylon 5 is nothing but a big pile of World War II allegory! I hate how obvious it is, you know? Londo is sitting high and mighty, the spitting image of Hitler with his hair up! This is all so obvious! Nyah!
 
I'm actually pretty sure B5 was supposed to be LotR in space...

Babylon 5 is nothing but a big pile of World War II allegory! I hate how obvious it is, you know? Londo is sitting high and mighty, the spitting image of Hitler with his hair up! This is all so obvious! Nyah!
I agree on both, though you could argue LOTR was also a WW2 allegory, itself.

Cheap sets and some bad acting aside, I adore Babylon 5, seasons 1-4, anyway!
 
Z'ha'dum is also thinly "borrowed" from LOTR. I forget what it is in LOTR... Khazadum?

BTW Jeff did you get the symbolism of Londo's fear of the spider creature which probably looks like a Shadow?
 
I'm actually pretty sure B5 was supposed to be LotR in space...

Babylon 5 is nothing but a big pile of World War II allegory! I hate how obvious it is, you know? Londo is sitting high and mighty, the spitting image of Hitler with his hair up! This is all so obvious! Nyah!
I agree on both, though you could argue LOTR was also a WW2 allegory, itself.

Cheap sets and some bad acting aside, I adore Babylon 5, seasons 1-4, anyway!

Actually, I was being sarcastic... well, mostly. ;)

Z'ha'dum is also thinly "borrowed" from LOTR. I forget what it is in LOTR... Khazadum?

BTW Jeff did you get the symbolism of Londo's fear of the spider creature which probably looks like a Shadow?

No, I must admit it hadn't quite dawned upon me until now!
 
"Ship of Tears"

Well, that was a definite step-up from "Sic Transit Vir", in any case.

Walter Koenig continues to bedazzle me. He's really made his character his own, imbuing all the shades of grey he can muster into damn near every line. I was interested in learning more about him. JMS has clearly gone out of his way to give us a very ambivalent character here. I still concur with Ivanova, though -- at some point he's bound to betray them. At the least, it's certainly not the kind of thing that isn't at the forefront of his mind.

So the Shadows are afraid of a little mind-walking, eh? I like this. It helps to level the playing field without going over-the-top about it. And I like how the Shadow vessel backing off was designed to make the viewer question Bester's motives all over again, only to have the (apparent) answer something outside his jurisdiction, after all.

What I found most interesting of all were the scenes with G'Kar. Delenn is right... he has come a long way. I was thrilled to see him welcomed into the War Council at last. About damn time.
 
Oh is that the big Delenn / G'Kar scene? That was really powerful. Congratulations you are now officially entering the high point of the entire series. Enjoy!
 
Yeah, it was a great scene.

I get a lot of differing opinions on when the high points start and end, but I'll make a note that one Mr Light has placed the beginning here!
 
Z'ha'dum is also thinly "borrowed" from LOTR. I forget what it is in LOTR... Khazadum?

You mean when Sheridan/Gandalf fall into the pit of the Shadows/Balrog, are presumed dead by the Army of Light/Fellowship, but instead have a cosmic experience and then return to the fray?

Also, the names are nearly homophones.
 
Z'ha'dum is also thinly "borrowed" from LOTR. I forget what it is in LOTR... Khazadum?

You mean when Sheridan/Gandalf fall into the pit of the Shadows/Balrog, are presumed dead by the Army of Light/Fellowship, but instead have a cosmic experience and then return to the fray?

Also, the names are nearly homophones.
Yep, some of the LOTR comparisons are fairly obvious.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top