Why didn't Nero demand Spock come aboard the Narada?

[Gorn Captain]

When Nero halted his intended destruction of the Enterprise over Vulcan, and commanded Pike to come aboard, why would he not demand Spock come as well?

If he had such a passionate desire to "make him watch", wouldn't he logically have wanted Spock there?

 

[Aldo]

He already stranded Spock Prime on Delta Vega, making him watch. Allowing young Spock to launch a rescue attempt and ultimately fail (with the death of his mother) is much worse than just forcing him to watch Vulcan's destruction.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

He assumed that the Captain was the one who'd have the information he wanted. Insisting that the ship send over half the command staff would have been pushing his luck.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Maybe Nero didn't know he was in an alternate universe, and therefore assumed that if anything happened to nuSpock, Spock Prime would cease to exist...

 

[Timo]

Showing mercy to the Enterprise doesn't really make sense unless Nero is thinking about leaving nuSpock alive.

And letting nuSpock "attempt a rescue" is hazardous because Nero's plan hangs on a thread - a thread that nuSpock eventually severs. There's no margin there for such chivalry (or archvillain masochism) in the plan.

It's a good question, then. What would have gone differently if nuSpock had been invited to the Narada? Kirk would have gained command of the Enterprise more easily, and nuSpock might have been working from the inside to undermine Nero so that Kirk could eventually beam aboard and allow the movie to proceed to its conclusion. We'd miss the Delta Vega angle, then, and the Spock-throttling-Kirk scene. Good riddance to the former, but the latter would be a loss...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Pauln6]

Without Spock to stop Kirk taking on Nero before he had obtained the additional information about red matter from Spock Prime, I would guess that the Enterprise would have been destroyed along with Earth.

 

[Timo]

So the story would have to feature Spock Prime coming to contact with Kirk at the story point where he did. Perhaps Kirk takes charge of a wrecked Enterprise and heads for repairs on Delta Vega, the only place he can reach?

...As written, the plot hinges on coincidence a lot, but that's okay since the plot is supposed to be about "destiny" anyway. The more problematic thing IMHO is that Kirk achieves essentially nothing. His rushing to the bridge to annoy Spock and inform Pike achieves nothing: the fate of the ship isn't altered. He also fails to save Vulcan even when tasked with the job. And it's nuSpock who gets to save Earth and then to destroy Nero's ship. All Kirk does is go grab Pike - but that looks so unnecessary because it's Scotty who transports Pike to safety. Why was Kirk needed there at all?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[pookha]

for one thing nero wasnt a military commander.
he was driven more for revenge..
he already had prime spock "watching"
to do the same to new spock...

and he wanted him to live to suffer after he watched..
i think he was so over confident he never expected to see enterprise or spock as a threat..

remember at the end when kirk and spock are on narada didnt nero say something like killing spock when he had the chance..

So the story would have to feature Spock Prime coming to contact with Kirk at the story point where he did. Perhaps Kirk takes charge of a wrecked Enterprise and heads for repairs on Delta Vega, the only place he can reach?

...As written, the plot hinges on coincidence a lot, but that's okay since the plot is supposed to be about "destiny" anyway. The more problematic thing IMHO is that Kirk achieves essentially nothing. His rushing to the bridge to annoy Spock and inform Pike achieves nothing: the fate of the ship isn't altered. He also fails to save Vulcan even when tasked with the job. And it's nuSpock who gets to save Earth and then to destroy Nero's ship. All Kirk does is go grab Pike - but that looks so unnecessary because it's Scotty who transports Pike to safety. Why was Kirk needed there at all?

Timo Saloniemi

uh...
if they come out of warp into the debris field without shields up they are possibly destroyed by the debris..
it starts smacking them right away..

kirk was the one who sent the ship after the narada..
spock wanted to rejoin the fleet. a move that would have resulted in the destruction of earth and possibly other federation planets.

also kirk was taking suggestions from his crew.. something spock seemed to be too much in shock to do. so chekov was able to make his recommendation..

and scotty sent them to the wrong part of the narada because they cant see inside the ship and its lay out isnt what is expected.
pike wasnt getting beamed out unless jim found him.
thanks to kirk's encounter with prime spock he was knew about the ship and possibly about where to find it .

 

[Timo]

It doesn't seem as if the debris would have been a danger to Pike's ship. With shields up, a collision still loosens hull plates; but that's just Sulu's steering, not something that would have been affected by shield status, because the collision happens in slo-mo and Pike could have raised shields during it easily enough.

Yes, Kirk's arguing got the plot moving in the right direction. But that's strangely "aphysical" for an action hero. Spock did all the real work in the end, leaving Kirk to decide and oversee. Which is a first for Star Trek: a captain who actually commands others to do the muscle work!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Pauln6]

and scotty sent them to the wrong part of the narada because they cant see inside the ship and its lay out isnt what is expected.
pike wasnt getting beamed out unless jim found him.
thanks to kirk's encounter with prime spock he was knew about the ship and possibly about where to find it .

Scotty would not have been able to beam them inside the Narada at all if he couldn't see inside - the signal has to be sent to a detectable location or specific set of coordinates. Guessing coordinates would generally be suicide (especially with all those odd, narrow walkways), which is why most beam down sites are out in wide open spaces except in emergencies.

This element of the plot in the movie hinges on something I advocate, which is that nobody should be beamed anywhere without a communicator or belt monitor signal (as in TMP) enabling a quantum scan (or possibly implants hinted at in NuTrek). So rescues are still needed if (as one assumes was the case with Pike) the individual has lost their communicator, belt monitor, or implant. Thus Kirk had to find Pike to give him a communicator.

TNG and a few TOS episodes allowed people to be beamed around without communicators just by getting a lock on their 'life signs' for the sake of story convenience. This really messes with the technology's usefulness, especially if you don't want characters to be found easily (Pike was the only human on a ship full of Romulans for example so nobody needed to find him at all, they just needed to get the transporter working in that scenario).

If anybody can be beamed anywhere using normal scanners (compared to the quantum scanners needed when using a transporter pad) it becomes harder to come up with reasons why people (including enemies) just can't be beamed around at will.

If all Federation citizens carried 'passports' that allow them to be beamed around, this would make sense. DNA data could be encoded on the passports so if somebody tries to infiltrate, the transporter would detect the differences and trigger an alarm. Personalised communicators etc can be encoded to individuals so, for example, Kirk wouldn't have been able to impersonate a klingon to sneak on board the BoP in STIII. Pretty sensible security precaution to me.

If they have any brains they'll keep the transporter genie in the bottle in the new franchise... well apart from transporting light years to a vessel at warp... oh ok, I dunno why I bother...

 

[bullethead]

There's also the fact that having Spock aboard for any amount of time exponentially increases the chance that Nero's plan can be foiled if Spock escapes. Since Vulcan language is the root of Romulan language, it means Spock has an easier time figuring out what important bits of machinery can be screwed with to damage the Narada while the crew scurries around searching for him. Keeping Spock aboard the Enterprise, a ship that the Narada can easily annihilate with a few missiles, makes him far less of a threat in the long term.

 

[BillJ]

Keeping Spock aboard the Enterprise, a ship that the Narada can easily annihilate with a few missiles, makes him far less of a threat in the long term.

I don't think the film agrees with your logic... since it was Spock who destroyed the Narada at the end.

 

[bullethead]

Keeping Spock aboard the Enterprise, a ship that the Narada can easily annihilate with a few missiles, makes him far less of a threat in the long term.

I don't think the film agrees with your logic... since it was Spock who destroyed the Narada at the end.

Spock only became a threat after he got aboard the Narada. While still on the Enterprise, his plan was to retreat and rendezvous with the fleet in the Laurentian sector because the Enterprise by itself was no match for the Narada. The only reason Spock was even in a position to get aboard the Narada was due to Kirk's intervention, which Nero didn't foresee.