Revisiting ST-TNG...

[SchwEnt]

^^^ See, I told ya Season Two was when TNG got good.

I agree "Q Who?" is tremendous. The only problem I can see is with Guinan (and I posted this awhile back).

Borg cube appears and Guinan says they should start heading back NOW.

Borg siht goes down, Guinan comes back with "They're called the Borg, they devastated my world."

MORE Borg siht, Guinan further explains "They are a race of cybernetic beings that have existed for thousands of years..."

Picard appeals to Guinan again for more info, lather, rinse, repeat.

Never mind the dramatic tension, Guinan... spill ALL the beans about the Borg from the get-go, stop playing games.

 

[T'Girl]

"Pen Pals"

I've always suspected that this episode is the reason both LaForge and Troi ended up making commander before Data, he didn't get kicked out of Starfleet, but he was disciplined.

 

[Trek Survivor]

Couldn't disagree more with the season 2 reviews, I love this season.

 

[Warped9]

Couldn't disagree more with the season 2 reviews, I love this season.

Odd. So far I'm seeing about 60% of these episodes in a favourable light.


I've been thinking about "Q Who" and other things that registered with me during the viewing.

This episode really does "kick them out of their complacency" because they've never encountered a threat like the Borg before. Indeed whereas earlier I might have criticized Picard's actions in how he was trying to defend against the Borg it really starts to look that Picard is indecisive. His complacency really is shaken---one instant they're just trying to hail the Borg ship and before you know it they really are at the end of their rope until he asks Q for help.

Is it possible Guinan was parsing the information she gave because she didn't want to frighten Picard and the crew too much? And earlier it looked like she was actually ready to defend herself against Q...yet after that we never see any such indication again that she is more than what she appears.

This really does underline a few things, though. Families have no business aboard a deep space starship. It's one thing to say "we will risk death together," but it's another to actually face it and, worse, the prospect that those children could have been assimilated by the Borg rather than killed. The other thing is that a Galaxy-class ship really isn't suited for combat. Either that or in his stupor Picard didn't once try any maneuvers other than trying to run as fast as they could.

Once again I was pleased that they got through this story without any obvious technobabble.


"Samaritan Snare" **

Laforge is taken hostage by seemingly helpless interstellar foragers while Picard faces a medical situation.

I was inclined to rate this even lower except that I enjoyed the scenes featuring Picard with Wesley and with Pulaski. I quite like the Pulaski/Picard dynamic. That said the Pakled storyline was so damned lame that I threatened to give myself a headache from rolling my eyes so much.


"Up The Long Ladder" ****

The Enterprise rescues two very disparate long lost colonies.

Yes, this is something of a episode and with some rather bad science involved in regard to cloning, and I know it gets dumped on a lot, but for me this is a guilty pleasure. From the first time I saw this I was reassured that TNG could sometimes pull off humour. This thing always makes me smile even if some are put off by the stereotypes. For me it's just fun.

 

[Borjis]

Love Samaritan Snare.

Who could resist Chris starscream/cobra-comander Latta? - "We are shmart"

 

[Ubik]

"Q Who" *****

Q throws the Enterprise into a distant region where they encounter an unimaginable new threat.

Superb! An unquestionable 5-star episode. Any remaining Federation smugness is thoroughly deflated by encountering the Borg. This alongside "The Measure Of A Man" ranks among the very best I think TNG has ever done. This is pretty much note perfect and I'm challenged to imagine anything they could have done much different. It's certainly my favourite Borg episode as well as the best Q episode. Also this is real final-frontier, where-no-man-has-gone-before materiel.

And the best praise I can give episodes like these is that I think they can stand easily with the best of TOS.

You're not alone - the vast majority of TNG fans (myself included) consider Q Who and Measure of a Man the only two absolutely essential viewing experiences from the first two seasons. They are indeed the only two masterpieces, and they are equivalent in quality to the best of TOS.

The following seasons do tend to average more than 2 essential episodes per season, mind you - by season 3 and 4, well over half the episodes range from good to fantastic.

 

[Warped9]

"Manhunt" *

Llwaxanna Troi visits the Enterprise in search of a husband.

This was excruciating despite occasional humorous moments. I thoroughly empathize with Picard in just wanting to get away and be elsewhere.


"The Emissary" ***

A Federation emissary, who also happens to be an old flame of Worf's, boards the Enterprise on a secret mission.

After all is said and done this episode is just okay. It's essentially a Klingon love story. And these contemporary Klingons tend to be more of the comic opera variety---their behaviour is all over the map. I also have to wonder at the logic of putting Klingons in stasis aboard a warp capable ship. Little of this episode really makes much sense.

 

[Trekker4747]

Manhunt, yeah was terrible.

Emissary I liked but only because of K'Ehleyr for purely superficial reasons.

 

[Warped9]

There is really only one episode left to watch for the season because "Shades Of Gray" is nothing more than a clip show just to add one more installment to the season.

I picked up Season 3 today so I'm all set to begin that this weekend.

 

[RyuRoots]

Hopefully this will be a good season for you; most TNG fans (myself included) think Season 3 is where the show REALLY took off (though Season 2 did some good things).

And as a curiosity, since you've validated eps like Q, Who and The Measure of a Man and are more willing to accept TNG now, does this mean you'll alter your sig?

 

[RAMA]

Time Squared" *

I'm surprised you rated this ep so low. I quite like it. I do agree that it feels a little rough around the edges, but the concept is intriguing and I rewatch this ep fairly frequently and almost never feel bored by it.

"The Icarus Factor" *

No argument here; it's terrible.



The Royale is just good ripe cheese. I think it's a love/hate sort of episode; I love it and always get a good chuckle or two from it.



One of my five-star eps; great teaser, great execution. The Riker/Romulan scenes with Picard on the planet are surprisingly fun.

"Pen Pals" ****

I liked this one a lot on first-run and the first couple of times I re-watched it; the Prime Directive theme is nicely explored. But I just can't re-watch it any more. The first half drags quite a bit.

"The Dauphin" **

In contrast to Pen Pals, I detested this ep the first few times I saw it, but find it better now. Even the teen romantic angle seems vaguely sweet and innocent now rather than the cringeworthy angst I perceived it as at the time.

/shrug... maybe I'm mellowing...

I like Time Squared as well. It has a high re-watch factor for some reason. I think the mysterious music, the acting, and the FX have a lot to do with it.

Manhunt is indeed a low point of the first 2 seasons.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

1-1/2 stars for Shades of Gray?!

What, are you high?!

Gave it a half star because Rob Bowman directed it.

And the other full star?

In comparison to other "bad" STNG episodes I think 1 1/2 is quite reasonable. Its really no worse than any other show's clip episodes.

RAMA

 

[Warped9]

Hopefully this will be a good season for you; most TNG fans (myself included) think Season 3 is where the show REALLY took off (though Season 2 did some good things).

And as a curiosity, since you've validated eps like Q, Who and The Measure of a Man and are more willing to accept TNG now, does this mean you'll alter your sig?

"Q Who" and "The Measure Of A Man" are two episodes I've always liked since the very beginning. And there have been others although not on the same level.

It must be said that while I'm enjoying a fair number of these episodes there are ideas in TNG that I'm not crazy about because I don't think they were well thought through or justified. I suppose I could say my enjoyment is on a somewhat different level than when I enjoy TOS.

There are things about the 1701D I'm not fond of. I think they could have had a better design (Probert's initial concept for the E-C would have been nicer), I don't like the families aboard ship (because it's not justified), such a large ship should have superb resources yet they seem to defer to "pure" science vessels when anything really needs to be studied, the ship's interior colour scheme is very "meh," the tech isn't as forward thinking as it could have been and other things.

It's almost as if the E-D is primarily about showing the Federation flag rather than doing real hands-on work.

The presence of the ship's counselor and she's written I find a constant annoyance pretty much whenever she opens her mouth. The recurrence of certain characters that I'm not fond (and who I know will show up in later episodes and seasons.

If I were to modify my sig it wouldn't embrace all of TNG, but perhaps the first four seasons. We'll see. I'd be lucky to choose maybe ten episodes from Seasons 5-7 that are okay. For me the flavour of the show changes during the show's mid run. During Season 5 I felt the show started to get stuffy and plodding.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves. There's still a ways to go...

 

[Trekker4747]

Gave it a half star because Rob Bowman directed it.

And the other full star?

In comparison to other "bad" STNG episodes I think 1 1/2 is quite reasonable. Its really no worse than any other show's clip episodes.

RAMA

Well all clip shows suck but usually it's how they're presented. In the sitcom "Friends" it was mostly a "Hey! Remember when..." type of thing. In Seinfeld the pretense of it being "in continuity" was dispensed with and simply had Jerry talking directly to the audience to introduce the clip segments.

Not TNG, man. Nope. They go for the full hog. They try and to make it a SERIOUS episode! With CONSEQUENCES! They make it part of the plot that Riker has to suffer through these memories and, further more, many of the memories are ones that aren't even his! And how "lucky" is it that Riker only goes through memories of his last 2 years than his last 30?

No, sorry, this episode is terrible and nothing is missed by not watching it. And I really can't think of any drama series that did clip shows like this, at least not in such a "dramatic" manner. Usually there's some "pretense" of, "Yeah this is a clip show, just go with it." And the episode doesn't take place in the continuity of the series. It's just "there."

This episode was just terrible. If they just filmed 40-some minutes of the crew sitting on the bridge picking their noses while making idle chit-chat during a 45-minute trip to a destination it would've been better. Hell, that would've been a better set-up for the clips because the crew could simply discuss all of the "wacky things" that have happened during their trip. That'd make a lot more sense than, "No. We have to bore these alien parasites to death with shitty clips for an hour."

 

[Ubik]

Hopefully this will be a good season for you; most TNG fans (myself included) think Season 3 is where the show REALLY took off (though Season 2 did some good things).

And as a curiosity, since you've validated eps like Q, Who and The Measure of a Man and are more willing to accept TNG now, does this mean you'll alter your sig?

"Q Who" and "The Measure Of A Man" are two episodes I've always liked since the very beginning. And there have been others although not on the same level.

It must be said that while I'm enjoying a fair number of these episodes there are ideas in TNG that I'm not crazy about because I don't think they were well thought through or justified. I suppose I could say my enjoyment is on a somewhat different level than when I enjoy TOS.

There are things about the 1701D I'm not fond of. I think they could have had a better design (Probert's initial concept for the E-C would have been nicer), I don't like the families aboard ship (because it's not justified), such a large ship should have superb resources yet they seem to defer to "pure" science vessels when anything really needs to be studied, the ship's interior colour scheme is very "meh," the tech isn't as forward thinking as it could have been and other things.

It's almost as if the E-D is primarily about showing the Federation flag rather than doing real hands-on work.

The presence of the ship's counselor and she's written I find a constant annoyance pretty much whenever she opens her mouth. The recurrence of certain characters that I'm not fond (and who I know will show up in later episodes and seasons.

If I were to modify my sig it wouldn't embrace all of TNG, but perhaps the first four seasons. We'll see. I'd be lucky to choose maybe ten episodes from Seasons 5-7 that are okay. For me the flavour of the show changes during the show's mid run. During Season 5 I felt the show started to get stuffy and plodding.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves. There's still a ways to go...

You're right, we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves, but season 6 is easily one of the best seasons of the show, and I think you'll find that some of the best and most memorable TNG episodes, ones just as good, and better, than Q Who or Measure of a Man, are from seasons 5-6. You'll see....

 

[Warped9]

^^ It's a matter of taste. I'm familiar enough with what is in Season 6 that I know there'll be little of interest for me there.


"Peak Performance" ***

The Enterprise engages in a battle simulation.

There are parts of this I like, but what really hurts it for me is the thinking behind it all: the notion that Starfleet supposedly isn't a military (which indeed it is) and that military preparedness is a waste of time. These guys wouldn't have lasted a minute in the TOS era with that kind of thinking. Anyway I was appreciating any way whatsoever the Zakdorn would have some shit kicked out of him.

This would have made a far better season finale episode than what is coming next. The season could have ended on a better note.


"Shades Of Gray" *

Riker is infected by an alien organism.

The first 10-12 minutes of this starts out well enough, but then you soon realize this is just a clip show, filler to round out an abbreviated season. You can easily be forgiven for skipping this one altogether.

 

[Trekker4747]

Peak Performance is a decent episode.

I think the "Starfleet isn't a military" thing gets muddied a lot depending on one's definition of "military" or how we view them.

In the strictest sense Starfleet is a military as it has an organized command structure with a fleet of vessels that are assigned to various tasks to do the bidding of the command organization.

But when people think of "military" they commonly think of "bunch of guys going out and enforcing a government's will on other nations using brute force and fire power." I'd argue it's a product of everything that's happened in the world with the US military in the last 45+ years. Back when TOS was done, although the Korean War was very much on people's minds and Vietnam while in the news was hardly yet the cluster-fuck it'd become by the middle of the 70s. So in TOS's time "the military" mindset was mostly still that of World War II where the military did something to protect the nation and the world from some horrific atrocities.

By 1987 things were very, very different in the light of Vietnam and even with the tensions with Russia that put a cloud of global nuclear disaster over our heads. Suddenly "The Military" wasn't this protective force for good it was a looming cloud of destruction and evil that caused death and forced a will on a people.

So "not a military", I think, simply means "our primary goal is not defensive or offensive operations so this war-games exercise is a waste of time. Our goal is to explore, discover and reach new horizons."

In-Universe you could also argue in TOS's time The Federation was dealing with tensions with both the Romulans and the Klingons so even they were very much in a "combat readiness" frame of mind when it came to their ships and goals. "Go out there and explore but be ready to defend the Federation at the drop of the hat."

In TNG's time peace has been reached with the Klingons and the Romulans are mostly MIA or at worst and arrogant annoyance. So there's no need for that "ready for war" mindset until the Borg Encounter created this war-game scenario.

I, for one, prefer the idea of Starfleet "not being a military" but admittedly that's only because of the connotations I think goes with "military" these days which I think is doing less "protect America and her freedoms" and more "imposing our will on other nations while securing overseas oil interests" but that's mostly a semantics thing. I better like the idea of Starfleet being a bit more laid back in the command structure and the rigidity aboard ship and not engaging in combat scenarios. (Granted SF's stance is to always take a non-provocative stance and only play defense) but it seems to me Picard would see the "value" in this combat-training scenario but I also assume they do regular combat testing drills all of the time on ship.

The "war-games" scenario we see here is hardly the most "realistic" of situations so on that front Picard was right that the whole event was a giant waste of time.

 

[Anwar]

I never had a problem with Troi, it makes sense that a Starship would have a Psychiatrist. Kirk's ship had one too, it's just that back in the 60s Psychiatry wasn't respected as a legitimate practice so the ship's shrink played no role whatsoever.

 

[Warped9]

There is indeed some inconsistency in Season 2, but what is noteworthy is that while I found 52% of Season 1 favourable the percentage in Season 2 is even higher at 63%. Essentially there is even more good than bad. There is, however, a curiosity: whereas the bulk of good work in Season 1 was in it's second half in Season 2 the reverse holds sway, more of the favourable work is in the first half of the season. I suspect that if there hadn't been a writer's strike that year it's possible Season 2 could have been more consistent throughout. As it is Season 2 is a bit of a roller coaster ride in terms of consistency in it's second half.

Another thing to note is that the cast's performance were pretty much on target this season as they finally had a grasp on their respective characters, even in the less-than-impressive installments.

Now:
***** Excellent (13.6%)
“Elementary, Dear Data”
“The Measure Of A Man”
“Q Who”

**** Good (27.2%)
“Where Silence Has Lease”
“Unnatural Selection”
“A Matter Of Honor”
“Contagion”
“Pen Pals”
“Up The Long Ladder”

*** Fair (22.7%)
“The Child”
“The Schizoid Man"
“Loud As A Whisper”
“The Emissary”
“Peak Performance”

** Poor (18.1%)
“The Outrageous Okana”
“The Dauphin”
“The Royale”
“Samaritan Snare”

* Bad (18.1%)
“Time Squared”
“The Icarus Factor”
“Manhunt”
“Shades of Gray”


Combining the two seasons together I found that out of 47 episodes total 27 (57%) are fair to excellent. That's actually not bad for a couple of seasons that many people are inclined to just write off.

What really helps Season 2 overall was polish and a generally better handle on what they were trying to do. And except for the writer's strike I suspect the behind-the-scenes situation was more settled than the previous year.

 

[RAMA]

There is indeed some inconsistency in Season 2, but what is noteworthy is that while I found 52% of Season 1 favourable the percentage in Season 2 is even higher at 63%. Essentially there is even more good than bad. There is, however, a curiosity: whereas the bulk of good work in Season 1 was in it's second half in Season 2 the reverse holds sway, more of the favourable work is in the first half of the season. I suspect that if there hadn't been a writer's strike that year it's possible Season 2 could have been more consistent throughout. As it is Season 2 is a bit of a roller coaster ride in terms of consistency in it's second half.

Another thing to note is that the cast's performance were pretty much on target this season as they finally had a grasp on their respective characters, even in the less-than-impressive installments.

Now:
***** Excellent (13.6%)
“Elementary, Dear Data”
“The Measure Of A Man”
“Q Who”

**** Good (27.2%)
“Where Silence Has Lease”
“Unnatural Selection”
“A Matter Of Honor”
“Contagion”
“Pen Pals”
“Up The Long Ladder”

*** Fair (22.7%)
“The Child”
“The Schizoid Man"
“Loud As A Whisper”
“The Emissary”
“Peak Performance”

** Poor (18.1%)
“The Outrageous Okana”
“The Dauphin”
“The Royale”
“Samaritan Snare”

* Bad (18.1%)
“Time Squared”
“The Icarus Factor”
“Manhunt”
“Shades of Gray”


Combining the two seasons together I found that out of 47 episodes total 27 (57%) are fair to excellent. That's actually not bad for a couple of seasons that many people are inclined to just write off.

What really helps Season 2 overall was polish and a generally better handle on what they were trying to do. And except for the writer's strike I suspect the behind-the-scenes situation was more settled than the previous year.

As mentioned before, the writer's strike must be blamed for the lack of standout episodes in season 2. I'm glad you liked it at a higher level than season 1, though I maintain that Season one was more consistent. The only real quibble with your list I have is Time Squared, though I can see why some people would be disappointed by it.

We're really getting into the meat now though...starting off with an episode, though not "great", really blew me away in 1990 to start off season 3. Season 3 includes 11 5-star episodes for me and a horde of high rated ones.