Was Earth defenseless?

[heavylids]

I just got done watching Star Trek XI and was a little confused when it was up to Kirk, Sulu and that crazy dude with the bombs to destroy the device that was used to dig deep enough into the Earth's core. Would Earth not have some sort of defense system or land based operations that could propel such an attack? Enlighten me.

 

[6079SmithW]

That scene was when Nero was attacking Vulcan, not Earth. It would seem that the Narada was able to make mince meat out of whatever defenses Vulcan had. Nero also seems to have gotten the defense codes from Pike as he was able to attack Earth later unchallenged.

 

[F. King Daniel]

They had a fleet of 7 ships, but they were sent to Vulcan and destroyed.

Earth's always been critically undefended in Trek. In TMP, the Enterprise was the only ship in range. In "Best of Both Worlds" Sol's defences consisted of six tiny little fighter drones. In "Zero Hour", there was nothing at all between the Xindi and Earth (but a fleet magically appeared at the end of "Storm Front" part 2)

I guess Nero could have shot down a bunch of smaller ships while Enterprise was warping to the rescue.

 

[6079SmithW]

Earth's persistent defenselessness seems to go along with the pacifistic nature of the Federation. They look down upon building armaments to fortify the peaceful capital planet. Also, the Federation's main line of defense has always been SF ships. How many times has a colony or fed outpost required SF vessel aid in defense or was attacked due to no vessels in range at the time? Ships are the primary defense and like King Daniel said Earth lost that defense when the fleet went to Vulcan.

 

[Nerys Myk]

This is Star Trek, of course it was.

 

[heavylids]

That scene was when Nero was attacking Vulcan, not Earth. It would seem that the Narada was able to make mince meat out of whatever defenses Vulcan had. Nero also seems to have gotten the defense codes from Pike as he was able to attack Earth later unchallenged.

You're right I got my situations mixed up. I was a little stoned when watching this. It was Spock that destroyed the device on Earth(you see a piece of it fall near the Golden Gate Bridge). But the question remains. You could ask the same thing about the Breen attack at Earth in DS9. Although the Federation is very passive in regards to defenses, there had to be some precautionary measures in case such an event would occur. It just seems a little stupid to not have at least some sort of military presence at Starfleet headquarters at all times.

 

[The Wormhole]

You could ask the same thing about the Breen attack at Earth in DS9.

Well, there are some things to consider about the Breen attack:

-The Breen were said at one point to have had impressive stealth technology. This presumably allowed them to make it to Earth orbit unchallenged.

-It was said that Earth's defenses eventually took out the Breen ships.

Like mentioned above, Earth has always been defenseless throughout Trek, the only real defenses we see in the Sol system is the Mars Defense Perimeter in TBOBW. There's no reason why we should expect any different in Trek XI.

 

[Admiral_Young]

The bulk of Starfleet's forces were also in the Laurentia system or whatever it was called, which is where Spock wanted to take Enterprise and why Kirk was tossed off the ship for questioning his orders. It always amazes me when sci-fi shows don't show anything in Earth orbit like a defense platform or something like that. They just normally show the planet and our moon. I guess that's budget restraints on the CGI?

 

[Brolan]

The story required Earth to be defenseless, so it was. Trek writers don't let a consistent sensible universe get in the way of a good story.

 

[Admiral_Young]

These aren't Trek writers though but I see your point It just amuses me that for story purposes logic is ignored. Starfleet would probably have something like defense platform in the absence of Starfleet vessels to protect it. Perhaps even Spacedock it's self is armed with something.

 

[Timo]

Ships are the primary defense

Are they? We've never actually seen ships successfully defend a planet - the closest we got was ships stopping (most of) a Borg ship after a mole gave them its defense codes in ST:FC.

OTOH, DS9 showed us that orbital fortifications can effortlessly cut to pieces a thousand-strong armada of starships, until and unless that armada finds the unprotected thermal shaft or other built-in weakness of the fortification system.

Perhaps starships never waste their time loitering near planets because they are useless at defending planets - they just get in the way of orbital defenses. Or if they are needed, they can arrive at their leisure while the fortifications tie down the invader in "trench warfare". For all we know, the Breen were stopped by fortifications rather than by starships. Also, the failure of fortifications was key to the Dominion conquering Betazed; had those fortresses done their job, the 10th Fleet might have returned in time, justifying the concept of it being off to exercises in the first place.

When Earth gets invaded in the TOS movies, reference is always made to its defenses failing. Starships don't form a significant part of those defenses in either TMP or ST4, yet Starfleet doesn't appear worried in the slightest, and seems to put a great deal of trust on its last-ditch defenses even when starship-based defenses-in-depth appear to be failing.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[darkshadow0001]

Don't forget Nero's ship was also from the future, making it harder for ships from the 23rd Century to attack it. Less technology.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

I would presume that those Earth Defense Codes may have enabled Nero to simply disable everything at once, so even if a Ship or weapons platform was sent, it would not have accepted the commands to move.

In short: He pulled the plug on Starfleet's Big Red Button, and simply walked right in.

 

[Timo]

But on Vulcan, handguns were enough to destroy Nero's drill. Surely not every handgun on Earth (or even every armed shuttlecraft) is tied to a network that can be disabled by knowing the defense codes?

We might argue that Nero first disabled Earth's main defenses against starships (orbital fortresses, surface cannon) with information warfare so that he could enter orbit, and then tried to be as quick about it as he possibly could before his drill was destroyed by lesser means. Drilling through some fault line next to San Francisco might be a good idea in that respect. Plus it would make Earthlings hesitate with lobbing nukes against the drill, because those would then kill San Francisco as well.

It would still be a somewhat desperate attempt. Nero wanted to avenge himself upon the entire Federation, but his tactics only barely got him through the destruction of Vulcan and failed in the destruction of Earth - not because of the actions of our heroes, but because of actions any random goon could have taken against him. Why didn't Nero come up with something more workable? He had a quarter of a century to think about it, after all.

We're thus left to think he wasn't particularly resourceful. Which might not be a big surprise, considering he was stranded away from his home and culture, which furthermore had ceased to exist at all...

Or then we have to think Nero did have the upper hand (perhaps because red matter gave him unlimited power against all attacks) but something strange happened twice to his defenses, causing his drill to become vulnerable. But that doesn't appear likely from what we see.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[OneBuckFilms]

Timo, Nero was a Miner, not a tactician. He probably didn't know about Starfleet's space-diving capabilities, or even know to consider that his drill might be vulterable.

Also, as a Romulan, a certain amount of arrogance is to be expected.

 

[6079SmithW]

^^Disruptor rifles were used to disable the drill, not destroy it. And they were fired at point blank range. I highly doubt someone on the surface of Vulcan or Earth armed with a hand phaser would be able to do any damage at all. The drill was over the San Francisco bay and if a cadet at the academy had used a hand phaser to shoot at it the phaser bolt would probably dissipate to near zero energy level by the time it hit the drill. Hand held phasers have a very limited range.

 

[BillJ]

Timo, Nero was a Miner, not a tactician. He probably didn't know about Starfleet's space-diving capabilities, or even know to consider that his drill might be vulterable.

But he did know to ask for defense codes?

 

[Solarbaby]

The bulk of Starfleet's forces were also in the Laurentia system or whatever it was called, which is where Spock wanted to take Enterprise and why Kirk was tossed off the ship for questioning his orders. It always amazes me when sci-fi shows don't show anything in Earth orbit like a defense platform or something like that. They just normally show the planet and our moon. I guess that's budget restraints on the CGI?

One of the reason I love Starship Troopers is the huge ring around the moon with weapons arrays.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

Timo, Nero was a Miner, not a tactician. He probably didn't know about Starfleet's space-diving capabilities, or even know to consider that his drill might be vulterable.

But he did know to ask for defense codes?

It's probably well known that Earth had a computer-based defense systems, and it's probably very common.

But how often would one consider a drill to be an obvious vulnerable spot?

It's also possible that he dismissed it as vulterable because nobody would be foolish enough to fly to the drill (assumedly they would be easily spotted), and beaming would be impossible while the drill was being used, so nobody could beam onto it.

 

[AriesIV]

^^Disruptor rifles were used to disable the drill, not destroy it. And they were fired at point blank range. I highly doubt someone on the surface of Vulcan or Earth armed with a hand phaser would be able to do any damage at all. The drill was over the San Francisco bay and if a cadet at the academy had used a hand phaser to shoot at it the phaser bolt would probably dissipate to near zero energy level by the time it hit the drill. Hand held phasers have a very limited range.

I could see someone at a university wheeling out a physics experiment and taking pot-shots at the drill... or even better someone in a vintage aircraft on a hobby-flight over the bay taking shots at it with a personal weapon.

I have a hard time believing that NO ONE took a shot at the drill. At all. Hell my Redneck Neighbor took a shot at that low-flying blimp with his Good Rifle. That was just a freaking blimp not an Alien Bent On Destruction.

Of course this is not the true historical record of the event it's a made-for-entertainment movie.

"In Reality" all of the things I mentioned above actually happened and a coordinated attack by the Enterprise the Jellyfish and a handful of civilian ships forced the Narada out of orbit where Vigorous Justice was applied. Reality being my tabletop RPG.