Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the sequel?
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Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
While I would never dare to be as antagonistic as Captain Mike has been in this thread, I do agree with his views on this film.
Perhaps my original post wasn't clear, it's not necessarily the abundance of action I have a problem with. It's that the film doesn't really have anything meaningful to say. Sure they it pays lip service to a few issues, but never really delves into them deeply like the best of Trek did. That's just what I'm wanting from the next film. It doesn't have to be as cerebral as TMP was, but something that at least attempts to explore the human condition and say something meaningful on the subject would be welcomed by me.
While I would never dare to be as antagonistic as Captain Mike has been in this thread, I do agree with his views on this film.
Perhaps my original post wasn't clear, it's not necessarily the abundance of action I have a problem with. It's that the film doesn't really have anything meaningful to say. Sure they it pays lip service to a few issues, but never really delves into them deeply like the best of Trek did. That's just what I'm wanting from the next film. It doesn't have to be as cerebral as TMP was, but something that at least attempts to explore the human condition and say something meaningful on the subject would be welcomed by me.
Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
Not meaningful enough?
Spock spends 28 years trying, and failing, to live up to the Vulcan ideal. After the tragic death of his mother, he finally comes to terms with himself as an emotional half-human and is accepted by his father as such.
Not meaningful enough?
Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
Interesting.. my preference for more action than you causes you to dismiss my 34 year understanding of Star Trek.
IDIC dude, IDIC.
You never got what the "original" (TOS, TOS:A,TNG, DS9, Voyager or even ENTERPRISE) was all about do you....
Interesting.. my preference for more action than you causes you to dismiss my 34 year understanding of Star Trek.
IDIC dude, IDIC.
Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
Well, not for me anyway. Contrived, outrageously over the top, unlikely etc, but not (for those reasons) meaningful. How often do we see Spock trying, and failing, to live up to the Vulcan ideal during those 28 years before the events of STXI? Once, perhaps, after considerable provocation when he was a child. No human is perfect, why should we expect Spock (in his pursue of "Vulcanism" or anything else) to be so? Why is surrendering to emotionalism automatically the best result? Anyway, he isn't supposed to "come to terms with himself" dammit! (
) Human’s are two a penny, "good Vulcans" are obviously a lot more scarce. Especially now!
Actually I wouldn't be surprised if the first showing of STXI doesn't go down in history as "The day the logic died"! A whole planet load of it!
However aren't the writers are on record as saying the next movie will have more depth? If so they will have to shoehorn it in some place, so who knows, maybe there will be a better balance.
Well, not for me anyway. Contrived, outrageously over the top, unlikely etc, but not (for those reasons) meaningful. How often do we see Spock trying, and failing, to live up to the Vulcan ideal during those 28 years before the events of STXI? Once, perhaps, after considerable provocation when he was a child. No human is perfect, why should we expect Spock (in his pursue of "Vulcanism" or anything else) to be so? Why is surrendering to emotionalism automatically the best result? Anyway, he isn't supposed to "come to terms with himself" dammit! (
) Human’s are two a penny, "good Vulcans" are obviously a lot more scarce. Especially now!Actually I wouldn't be surprised if the first showing of STXI doesn't go down in history as "The day the logic died"! A whole planet load of it!
However aren't the writers are on record as saying the next movie will have more depth? If so they will have to shoehorn it in some place, so who knows, maybe there will be a better balance.
Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
"If you want to send a message, use Western Union" - Sam Goldwyn, a guy who knew a thing or two about the movie business.
Abrams's movie certainly isn't less "meaningful" than previous Trek movies despite stopping less frequently to have the characters read fortune cookies aloud.
"If you want to send a message, use Western Union" - Sam Goldwyn, a guy who knew a thing or two about the movie business.
Abrams's movie certainly isn't less "meaningful" than previous Trek movies despite stopping less frequently to have the characters read fortune cookies aloud.
Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
If you are looking for a literary theme or moral to the story, how about:
"If you'll just get the chip off your shoulder, you can reach your full potential and accomplish anything."
In other words, "If you'll just give away your motorcycle and leather jacket, you too can score some green..." I mean "you too can join your own motley crew and go save the Universe."
Seriously, though, "being inspirational" and its cousin "being merely rousing", aren't these worthy enough aspirations for a film, in order to be "merely successful"?
If you are looking for a literary theme or moral to the story, how about:
"If you'll just get the chip off your shoulder, you can reach your full potential and accomplish anything."
In other words, "If you'll just give away your motorcycle and leather jacket, you too can score some green..." I mean "you too can join your own motley crew and go save the Universe."
Seriously, though, "being inspirational" and its cousin "being merely rousing", aren't these worthy enough aspirations for a film, in order to be "merely successful"?
Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
In the Roddenberry era every time Spock got all human on us it was the result of an outside influence.. pollen or time travel or something. Kind of like how all gods/spiritual events turn out to be computers.
I like that Spock may really wrestle with the two sides in this universe. I think if something doesn't come as naturally as it should a person is likely to over compensate which is what we saw in TOS, and what T'Pol does in the first season of ENT because she knows she sucks at emotional repression so she has to prove it loud and clear. I'm thinking in this timeline the actual wrestling may be more obvious.
I also think that Spock will choose to embrace his Vulcan-ness despite what Old Spock said to him (just like T'Pol ultimately ignored the same lesson that Old T'Pol tried to impart). Because really, he needs to be a Vulcan with the species and culture so depleted, he can't just run after crushes and whims.
Well, not for me anyway. Contrived, outrageously over the top, unlikely etc, but not (for those reasons) meaningful. How often do we see Spock trying, and failing, to live up to the Vulcan ideal during those 28 years before the events of STXI? Once, perhaps, after considerable provocation when he was a child. No human is perfect, why should we expect Spock (in his pursue of "Vulcanism" or anything else) to be so? Why is surrendering to emotionalism automatically the best result? Anyway, he isn't supposed to "come to terms with himself" dammit! (
Actually I wouldn't be surprised if the first showing of STXI doesn't go down in history as "The day the logic died"! A whole planet load of it!
In the Roddenberry era every time Spock got all human on us it was the result of an outside influence.. pollen or time travel or something. Kind of like how all gods/spiritual events turn out to be computers.
I like that Spock may really wrestle with the two sides in this universe. I think if something doesn't come as naturally as it should a person is likely to over compensate which is what we saw in TOS, and what T'Pol does in the first season of ENT because she knows she sucks at emotional repression so she has to prove it loud and clear. I'm thinking in this timeline the actual wrestling may be more obvious.
I also think that Spock will choose to embrace his Vulcan-ness despite what Old Spock said to him (just like T'Pol ultimately ignored the same lesson that Old T'Pol tried to impart). Because really, he needs to be a Vulcan with the species and culture so depleted, he can't just run after crushes and whims.
Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
I would love that, but seeing as how all films these days are only meant for Joe-Sixpack, I highly doubt it.
~The Castellan: Feeling intellectual stuff forever gone from films~
Oh, how I long for another TMP.......and yes, I enjoyed that one, so
I would love that, but seeing as how all films these days are only meant for Joe-Sixpack, I highly doubt it.
~The Castellan: Feeling intellectual stuff forever gone from films~
Oh, how I long for another TMP.......and yes, I enjoyed that one, so
Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
I want Trek to be financially viable, a success! I want several more films, a new series and the continuation of TrekLit published, byproducts sold and conventions where the fanbase isn't in danger of dying off any time soon.
I think we are in for "intellectual stuff" but it's the sort of intellectual stuff like you get in Lost--all about choices made. This is fine with me because though it may bore me in other universes Trek isn't starting from scratch, these characters and their preferences and temptations are well established.
I think it will work.
I would love that, but seeing as how all films these days are only meant for Joe-Sixpack, I highly doubt it.
~The Castellan: Feeling intellectual stuff forever gone from films~
Oh, how I long for another TMP.......and yes, I enjoyed that one, so
I want Trek to be financially viable, a success! I want several more films, a new series and the continuation of TrekLit published, byproducts sold and conventions where the fanbase isn't in danger of dying off any time soon.
I think we are in for "intellectual stuff" but it's the sort of intellectual stuff like you get in Lost--all about choices made. This is fine with me because though it may bore me in other universes Trek isn't starting from scratch, these characters and their preferences and temptations are well established.
I think it will work.
Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
In regards to "NuTrek", a financially viable, successful turd is still a turd.
Intelligence and "Lost" should never be used in the same sentence.
Seems all science fiction now is going to be reduced to popcorn action flicks.
I would love that, but seeing as how all films these days are only meant for Joe-Sixpack, I highly doubt it.
~The Castellan: Feeling intellectual stuff forever gone from films~
Oh, how I long for another TMP.......and yes, I enjoyed that one, so
I want Trek to be financially viable, a success! I want several more films, a new series and the continuation of TrekLit published, byproducts sold and conventions where the fanbase isn't in danger of dying off any time soon.
I think we are in for "intellectual stuff" but it's the sort of intellectual stuff like you get in Lost--all about choices made. This is fine with me because though it may bore me in other universes Trek isn't starting from scratch, these characters and their preferences and temptations are well established.
I think it will work.
In regards to "NuTrek", a financially viable, successful turd is still a turd.
Intelligence and "Lost" should never be used in the same sentence.
Seems all science fiction now is going to be reduced to popcorn action flicks.
Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
Now, there's a sentence which signifies absolutely nothing more than "I didn't like this movie."
Now, there's a sentence which signifies absolutely nothing more than "I didn't like this movie."
Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
Yet another fan of JJ's "LOST"...I suppose you LOVED "FELECITY"I would love that, but seeing as how all films these days are only meant for Joe-Sixpack, I highly doubt it.
~The Castellan: Feeling intellectual stuff forever gone from films~
Oh, how I long for another TMP.......and yes, I enjoyed that one, so
I want Trek to be financially viable, a success! I want several more films, a new series and the continuation of TrekLit published, byproducts sold and conventions where the fanbase isn't in danger of dying off any time soon.
I think we are in for "intellectual stuff" but it's the sort of intellectual stuff like you get in Lost--all about choices made. This is fine with me because though it may bore me in other universes Trek isn't starting from scratch, these characters and their preferences and temptations are well established.
I think it will work.
In regards to "NuTrek", a financially viable, successful turd is still a turd.
Intelligence and "Lost" should never be used in the same sentence.
Seems all science fiction now is going to be reduced to popcorn action flicks.
which MANY on this board have stated in the same way ,...and in our own opinions they are either right or wrong....
Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
I've never found TMP particularly insightful or deep. Just a bit pretentious. I tend to lose interest with it right around after Spock shows up on the Enterprise. On more than a few occasions I've even and a fellow Trekker friend of mine have dosed off while watching it. This didn't ever occur with any of the other films or TOS.
If "NuTrek" if fast food I'll eat more of it.
I've never found TMP particularly insightful or deep. Just a bit pretentious. I tend to lose interest with it right around after Spock shows up on the Enterprise. On more than a few occasions I've even and a fellow Trekker friend of mine have dosed off while watching it. This didn't ever occur with any of the other films or TOS.
If "NuTrek" if fast food I'll eat more of it.
Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
in the cage there was no outside influence but we see a more emotional spock.
it may have just been the way younger spock was.
and spock wasnt even static within tos.
we see him becoming more at ease as the series progresses.
then when everything falls apart when kirk takes on desk job he tries to run from his feelings only to get his mind kicked in the meld with vger.
while there are mind numbing parts to star trek the motion picture the scene after the recovered spock awakens in sick bay is.. fascinating.
in the cage there was no outside influence but we see a more emotional spock.
it may have just been the way younger spock was.
and spock wasnt even static within tos.
we see him becoming more at ease as the series progresses.
then when everything falls apart when kirk takes on desk job he tries to run from his feelings only to get his mind kicked in the meld with vger.
while there are mind numbing parts to star trek the motion picture the scene after the recovered spock awakens in sick bay is.. fascinating.
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Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
Dude, LOST is the way of the future! Don't you understand, your petty linear tastes in films is just pulp to us young'uns. We spit upon it with our Dharma flavored spit. John Locke is going to DIE and then he's going to COME BACK and then he's going to DIE and if you don't get it well.. you're a muggle. A muggle who values pedestrian startrekking across the universe and is incapable of embracing the coolness.. the deepness.. of the random.
Old people are always whining about randomness not making sense but lucky for this generation of film making they will be dead soon.
Your future dude (well, if you make it that far):
Yet another fan of JJ's "LOST"...I suppose you LOVED "FELECITY"
In regards to "NuTrek", a financially viable, successful turd is still a turd.
Intelligence and "Lost" should never be used in the same sentence.
Seems all science fiction now is going to be reduced to popcorn action flicks.
Dude, LOST is the way of the future! Don't you understand, your petty linear tastes in films is just pulp to us young'uns. We spit upon it with our Dharma flavored spit. John Locke is going to DIE and then he's going to COME BACK and then he's going to DIE and if you don't get it well.. you're a muggle. A muggle who values pedestrian startrekking across the universe and is incapable of embracing the coolness.. the deepness.. of the random.
Old people are always whining about randomness not making sense but lucky for this generation of film making they will be dead soon.
Your future dude (well, if you make it that far):
Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
On the contrary. I have merely spoken of the two parts of the movie that have bothered me from the first moment I saw them. If I found the movie that disagreeable I can assure you that I would not own a copy of it.
Well I don't think I was as clear as I could have been. I was more speaking of the writers. The sense I get from that end sequence is that basically they wanted it to end with Nero getting blown to hell but they knew (at least the ones who are themselves Trek fans) that without at least lip service being paid to one of Trek's core ideals that many of the die hard fans would be pissed off. The problem was that to me it felt clumsy and obvious.
Nah, I'm thinking they should go for Brokeback Trek. Spock: "Jim I wish I was aware of a means by which I might quit you."
Well in all fairness I give ATrek, a good bit of leeway because while there are the die hards who know what Trek is about, for many people this will be their first Trek experience so they need to be introduced to the characters, the universe etc. First movies are often a bit light on depth. And to be honest for me ATrek works a lot better as an intro movie than TMP, which has some interesting ideas but is horribly plodding in it's execution.
Well meaning is a tricky thing of course. Being a real hard core Vulcan fan I loved all of that and loved that they used the Vulcan Bible to inform their crafting of Spock's character. There is a lot about ATrek that I like a great deal. However I will not diminish my expectations. They are off to a good start, I just want to see them continue to strive to find the balance between good, fun, and exciting story telling, and deeper themes. Or in other words to keep themselves somewhere between TMP, and Nemeshits.Well, not for me anyway. Contrived, outrageously over the top, unlikely etc, but not (for those reasons) meaningful. How often do we see Spock trying, and failing, to live up to the Vulcan ideal during those 28 years before the events of STXI? Once, perhaps, after considerable provocation when he was a child. No human is perfect, why should we expect Spock (in his pursue of "Vulcanism" or anything else) to be so? Why is surrendering to emotionalism automatically the best result? Anyway, he isn't supposed to "come to terms with himself" dammit! (
Actually I wouldn't be surprised if the first showing of STXI doesn't go down in history as "The day the logic died"! A whole planet load of it!
However aren't the writers are on record as saying the next movie will have more depth? If so they will have to shoehorn it in some place, so who knows, maybe there will be a better balance.
Hmm. Well while each person is free to percieve any movie in any way they wish I personally think that's a gross mischaracterization of the prior movies.
I have to disagree. In fact thanks to the hunger for movies and the multiplexes I think that there is more really great and challenging stuff out there than ever before. Look at movies like Stranger Than Fiction, or Moon. Two movies that once upon a time would have been completely relegated to limited runs in the "art house" theaters.I would love that, but seeing as how all films these days are only meant for Joe-Sixpack, I highly doubt it.
~The Castellan: Feeling intellectual stuff forever gone from films~
Oh, how I long for another TMP.......and yes, I enjoyed that one, so
I hope you are right. There is no one right way to do Trek properly. And I think that Abrams and company do understand what the property is about. But I understand fan vigilance since there will always be people who think they get Trek but really don't *cough*johnlogan*cough* Of course sometimes it can be surprising who "gets" it and who doesn't, and what they do and do not get.
Well I've not seen Lost, just doesn't call my name. But frankly I found ATrek to be anything but a turd. The other thing about sci fi in movies is that well science fiction is hard to do right in motion based mediums like tv and movies. All too often it's either too whiz bang but empty, or it's really deep but horribly plodding. Trek usually gets it right more often than not I think and I certainly include the latest effort in that assessment.In regards to "NuTrek", a financially viable, successful turd is still a turd.
Intelligence and "Lost" should never be used in the same sentence.
Seems all science fiction now is going to be reduced to popcorn action flicks.
*L* Yeah sorry got to agree with that one. TMP is just, it's off. It's too arch, too showy and too impressed with itself. To Me teh defining moment of everything that is wrong with TMP is when Spock turns and looking like a pissed of drag queen we are treated to his single tear. It was so stagy and showy that it always takes me right out of the movie.
Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
Don't worry, plenty of fans will see it that way even if that line is never in the script
Don't worry, plenty of fans will see it that way even if that line is never in the script
Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq
I think they already do
I think they already do
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