Star TreK: VI - "ReMastered"?

[Satyrquaze]

Actually, if the movie gets remastered/remade... whatever. They should redo the ending to have the Sulu and Excelsior sniff out the Bird-of-Prey as it was intended in the script.

Originally, it was members of the Excelsior crew refitting the torpedo to track the cloaked BoP, because as noted at the beginning of the film is was Excelsior that had all the equipment for cataloging gaseous anomalies.

Shatner nixed the idea saying that Kirk and the Enterprise would never need saving. Which to me is more of Shatner's ego getting in the way of plots making sense.

 

[JarodRussell]

Actually, if the movie gets remastered/remade... whatever. They should redo the ending to have the Sulu and Excelsior sniff out the Bird-of-Prey as it was intended in the script.

Originally, it was members of the Excelsior crew refitting the torpedo to track the cloaked BoP, because as noted at the beginning of the film is was Excelsior that had all the equipment for cataloging gaseous anomalies.

Shatner nixed the idea saying that Kirk and the Enterprise would never need saving. Which to me is more of Shatner's ego getting in the way of plots making sense.

Any source for that story?

 

[Satyrquaze]

Just that at the beginning of TUC, USS Excelsior is "catalogging gaseous anomies in beta quadrant" and towards the end of TUC, Uhura asks "What about all that equipment we're carrying for catalogging gaseous anomolies." That had previously never been referenced on the Enterprise.

And this from Memory Alpha:

• During the Battle at Khitomer, Uhura mentions that the Enterprise is carrying equipment to study gaseous anomalies. In the beginning of the film, Sulu states that the Excelsior is also on a mission to study gaseous anomalies. It is not clear whether this is done intentionally, as the Enterprise's mission is strictly escort duty for the Chancellor's ship.

According to George Takei's autobiography To the Stars, early drafts did feature the Excelsior discovering the Bird-of-Prey's weakness and using their gaseous anomaly equipment to find it. According to Takei, William Shatner asked that the scene be re-written, arguing that Captain Kirk would never need anyone to come charging to his rescue.

 

[Gojira]

Just that at the beginning of TUC, USS Excelsior is "catalogging gaseous anomies in beta quadrant" and towards the end of TUC, Uhura asks "What about all that equipment we're carrying for catalogging gaseous anomolies." That had previously never been referenced on the Enterprise.

And this from Memory Alpha:

• During the Battle at Khitomer, Uhura mentions that the Enterprise is carrying equipment to study gaseous anomalies. In the beginning of the film, Sulu states that the Excelsior is also on a mission to study gaseous anomalies. It is not clear whether this is done intentionally, as the Enterprise's mission is strictly escort duty for the Chancellor's ship.

According to George Takei's autobiography To the Stars, early drafts did feature the Excelsior discovering the Bird-of-Prey's weakness and using their gaseous anomaly equipment to find it. According to Takei, William Shatner asked that the scene be re-written, arguing that Captain Kirk would never need anyone to come charging to his rescue.

I always felt what Uhura said was a big blunder. I do wish that Sulu and company had found the Bird or Prey.

 

[Satyrquaze]

^Yeah, file it under the opposite of Chekhov's Gun.

 

[ClayinCA]

Just that at the beginning of TUC, USS Excelsior is "catalogging gaseous anomies in beta quadrant" and towards the end of TUC, Uhura asks "What about all that equipment we're carrying for catalogging gaseous anomolies." That had previously never been referenced on the Enterprise.

And this from Memory Alpha:

• During the Battle at Khitomer, Uhura mentions that the Enterprise is carrying equipment to study gaseous anomalies. In the beginning of the film, Sulu states that the Excelsior is also on a mission to study gaseous anomalies. It is not clear whether this is done intentionally, as the Enterprise's mission is strictly escort duty for the Chancellor's ship.

According to George Takei's autobiography To the Stars, early drafts did feature the Excelsior discovering the Bird-of-Prey's weakness and using their gaseous anomaly equipment to find it. According to Takei, William Shatner asked that the scene be re-written, arguing that Captain Kirk would never need anyone to come charging to his rescue.

I'm not sure George Takei's the best source for any story involving William Shatner making changes like the ones described. He's had a beef with Shatner for a long time.

 

[Satyrquaze]

That doesn't change the fact that at the start of the movie Excelsior has the equipment and at the end of the movie the Enterprise has the equipment without any explanation.

From that plot standpoint it makes more sense for the Excelsior to be the ship that detects the BoP.

Don't forget, the late James Doohan also had a beef with Shatner for similar reasons. I'm more than willing to trust Takei over anything Shatner says in this instance.

 

[Expo67]

Actually, if the movie gets remastered/remade... whatever. They should redo the ending to have the Sulu and Excelsior sniff out the Bird-of-Prey as it was intended in the script.

Originally, it was members of the Excelsior crew refitting the torpedo to track the cloaked BoP, because as noted at the beginning of the film is was Excelsior that had all the equipment for cataloging gaseous anomalies.

Shatner nixed the idea saying that Kirk and the Enterprise would never need saving. Which to me is more of Shatner's ego getting in the way of plots making sense.

Any source for that story?

Having met Bill Shatner is person, you are quite correct in that description about his ego. It is something that has regretfully gone to his head over the passage of time.

However, as to his reasons for having nixed the idea, Shatner does make a valid point. If only in the artistic sense. Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise, let alone the Enterprise, itself, has never needed saving by an outside party. Kirk and company have always managed to pull off a miracle before the situation has become a fatal one.

Shatner has played the role for so long, he certainly knows the character of James T. Kirk better than anyone.

 

[JarodRussell]

Actually, if the movie gets remastered/remade... whatever. They should redo the ending to have the Sulu and Excelsior sniff out the Bird-of-Prey as it was intended in the script.

Originally, it was members of the Excelsior crew refitting the torpedo to track the cloaked BoP, because as noted at the beginning of the film is was Excelsior that had all the equipment for cataloging gaseous anomalies.

Shatner nixed the idea saying that Kirk and the Enterprise would never need saving. Which to me is more of Shatner's ego getting in the way of plots making sense.

Any source for that story?

Having met Bill Shatner is person, you are quite correct in that description about his ego. It is something that has regretfully gone to his head over the passage of time.

However, as to his reasons for having nixed the idea, Shatner does make a valid point. If only in the artistic sense. Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise, let alone the Enterprise, itself, has never needed saving by an outside party. Kirk and company have always managed to pull off a miracle before the situation has become a fatal one.

Shatner has played the role for so long, he certainly knows the character of James T. Kirk better than anyone.

I doubt that story (or rather the "Shatner is the only guy to blame for this, boowaah!!!" part) because it comes from Takei, because Shatner did not have any producing credit in this movie (Leonard Nimoy was the only cast member acting as executive producer), and because Nicholas Meyer wrote the script and directed the film and is known to take no shat from Shatner.

 

[Christopher]

I can buy the idea that both ships are surveying gaseous anomalies -- maybe it's a fleetwide project for some reason, a galaxywide survey to improve the Federation's maps of the interstellar medium. What I find unconscionably stupid and wrong is Spock asking McCoy's help to refit the torpedo. First, why have a medical doctor do work better suited to a tactical officer? Second, whatever happened to McCoy's statement from "The Empath": "I will not take life, not even to save my own"? Having him work on a weapon of mass destruction is a gross error of characterization.

 

[JarodRussell]

I can buy the idea that both ships are surveying gaseous anomalies -- maybe it's a fleetwide project for some reason, a galaxywide survey to improve the Federation's maps of the interstellar medium.

In the novel is a scene where Kirk shows the Klingons around the ship, and they visit a lab. Though I don't remember if they mention anything about gaseous anomalies in that scene.

 

[Satyrquaze]

I can buy the idea that both ships are surveying gaseous anomalies -- maybe it's a fleetwide project for some reason, a galaxywide survey to improve the Federation's maps of the interstellar medium. What I find unconscionably stupid and wrong is Spock asking McCoy's help to refit the torpedo. First, why have a medical doctor do work better suited to a tactical officer? Second, whatever happened to McCoy's statement from "The Empath": "I will not take life, not even to save my own"? Having him work on a weapon of mass destruction is a gross error of characterization.

If that's the case, and it is a Fleetwide project, why not mention it in any previous scene?

If it was always intended that the Enterprise was the ship meant to detect the BoP in the manner it did, then it represents very sloppy writing that no one caught (way too sloppy considering who all got writing and screenplay credit). To have Sulu mention that the Excelsior was doing the catalogging and then have Uhura basically go "Surprise Bitches! It was the Enterprise doing the catalogging all along!"

Hell, in the remaster, just have Spock or someone make a throwaway line about since the Enterprise is hiding out, their missing out on their gaseous anomoly mission. Anything so it just doesn't appear that the Shat is stealing yet more screen time from Takei and the crew of the Excelsior.

Also, you are dead on about McCoy working on the WMD. That should have never happened. I'm surprised I never caught onto that.

 

[JarodRussell]

Anything so it just doesn't appear that the Shat is stealing yet more screen time from Takei and the crew of the Excelsior.

Also, you are dead on about McCoy working on the WMD. That should have never happened. I'm surprised I never caught onto that.

I suppose you were too busy blaming Shatner for everything wrong in the world.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Well, that and the drugs.

 

[Christopher]

If that's the case, and it is a Fleetwide project, why not mention it in any previous scene?

If it was always intended that the Enterprise was the ship meant to detect the BoP in the manner it did, then it represents very sloppy writing that no one caught (way too sloppy considering who all got writing and screenplay credit).

You're missing my point. I'm not trying to argue that the writers intended it that way all along. I'm saying that, even if it was a storytelling error, I don't have much trouble concocting an in-universe rationalization for it after the fact. It's a lot easier to justify than having McCoy do "surgery" on a photon torpedo.

 

[Satyrquaze]

I guess my point is that I'm not terribly interested in concocting an in-universe rationalization for it. I'd rather it be fixed or at least neatly patched.

All that said, TUC is my favorite of the TOS films.

 

[Christopher]

^And my point is that, while I agree it's a problem, for me the mischaracterization of McCoy is a far worse problem.

 

[JarodRussell]

^And my point is that, while I agree it's a problem, for me the mischaracterization of McCoy is a far worse problem.

I've always seen it this way: Spock does all the stuff on the torpedo, all he needs is an assistant with steady hands in a stressful combat situation. Who's better suited for that than a surgeon who has already been in countless battles, and who happens to stand right next to him?

 

[ClayinCA]

That's an OK rationalization of the problem, I think, but it is definitely a problem, and it's one of the things about Star Trek VI that's always bothered me a little bit. It does give Spock and McCoy a nice scene together, but I do wish the scene could have been something more in-character for McCoy.

 

[Christopher]

I've always seen it this way: Spock does all the stuff on the torpedo, all he needs is an assistant with steady hands in a stressful combat situation. Who's better suited for that than a surgeon who has already been in countless battles, and who happens to stand right next to him?

If they were a skeleton crew on the Bounty or something, then that would make sense. But they were on a fully manned ship of the line with plenty of engineers and weapons officers. And it's not like they did the refit on the bridge. They had to go down to the torpedo bay to do it. Spock could've met a weapons officer down there, someone whose job it is to work with and modify photon torpedoes. Such a crewmember would certainly be able to keep steady in a stressful combat situation.

Moreover, a weapons officer would've been willing to do that kind of work. My point is that McCoy shouldn't have been. "I will not take life, not even to save my own." There's no way that the man who said those words would've so blithely helped modify a weapon to make it better able to kill. It was completely out of character.