Is it safe to say that the DS9 Relaunch is dead?

[ProtoAvatar]

2 of the Typhon Pact series.
'ZSG' is, chronologically, the most advanced book I read. It contains snippets such as the federation president/advisors/admirals stating directly that there's a cold war between the federation and the Typhon Pact, that the only reason the Typhon Pact doesn't attack a weakened federation is slip-stream tech, that, if the federation lost this tech to the Pact, in as little as a year the federation will become a second rate power and then it's game over, etc.

Only 'Paths of disharmony' takes place later -

Spoiler: Paths of Disharmony

and it depicts the andorians leaving the federation. Not very "some exploration, both in the galaxy and within the soul", but quite "a grim picture of a federation tearing itself apart, being challenged to a cold war by a new rival, politically stabler, militarily superior, etc."

Your telling the novel's credited beta reader.

Good for you.

Is this supposed to affect my argument?
It does nothing of the sort.

Hoping, Therin?
I'm discussing the current state of trek lit, NOT what you're 'hoping' will happen - and the current trend of trek lit does not align well at all with your 'hope'.

So glad you are "in" on what's to come. The rest of us can just "hope", but in the knowledge that Star Trek's ideals should win out in the end.

This 'at the end' proved elusive for years.

And you were the one who claimed he knows what will happen in trek lit: "I'm happy to get back to some exploration, both in the galaxy and within the soul."

 

[Therin of Andor]

Is this supposed to affect my argument?
It does nothing of the sort.

No, but you, who hasn't read the novel, were telling me, who read it way back in August/September 2010, what will happen in it.

And you were the one who claimed he knows what will happen in trek lit: "I'm happy to get back to some exploration, both in the galaxy and within the soul."

I was referring to Titan's mission, and the frequently expressed desire of numerous characters in all the other 24th century book series - and to the fact that we didn't end up with a War of the Ascendants arc wedged between the canonical Dominion War, its literary fallout and the events of "Destiny".

 

[Sci]

Because, I view the four year jump as a stunt.

You know, it's been explained numerous times that the four-year jump isn't a stunt, that it was a subjective creative decision made out of recognition of the fact that Margaret and Marco had different creative styles and that it would therefore be better, in Margaret's view, to embrace that change by bringing DS9 into sync with TNG, TTN, and VOY rather than having it be an imitation of what it was under Marco.

Now, if you think that's a bad decision, fine. I wouldn't argue that. But it gets really irritating to me, as another poster, when people attribute motives to the authors and editors that are false and which have been explained to be false.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Is this supposed to affect my argument?
It does nothing of the sort.

No, but you, who hasn't read the novel, were telling me, who read it way back in August/September 2010, what will happen in it.

Yes, Therin. And?
You ASKED me what was happening in it. I gave you an accurate information.
You have a problem with this because?

And you were the one who claimed he knows what will happen in trek lit: "I'm happy to get back to some exploration, both in the galaxy and within the soul."

I was referring to Titan's mission, and the frequently expressed desire of numerous characters in all the other 24th century book series - and to the fact that we didn't end up with a War of the Ascendants arc wedged between the canonical Dominion War, its literary fallout and the events of "Destiny".

Were you? Have you even mentioned Titan when you made your certain "I'm happy to get back to..." statement?

And then you went from "I'm happy to get back to some exploration, both in the galaxy and within the soul" to "I'm hoping that is yet to come."

And then from "I'm hoping that is yet to come" to Titan "and the frequently expressed desire of numerous characters".
You were hoping that will be the already expressed desire of some characters? Yeah...

As for the lack of conclusion to the Ascendants storyline and how its absence changes nothing to the current grim mood of trek lit, I already addressed this.

 

[DarkHorizon]

Could people please stop spoiling the events of Paths of Disharmony? I haven't even had the chance to start reading it yet!

 

[kkozoriz1]

We had the build up in DS9-R and then the wheels fell off.

So you say.

And if a new Ascendants War(?) story had come out immediately after the "wheels fell off", perhaps it wouldn't have sold very well. Maybe it was time for a break? I'm sick of war myself: the Dominion War, the Borg Wars, the so-far-unseen Selelvian War. I'm rather thankful that the Typhon Pact races (and the authors) are tackling things differently in the current mini-series. Leave war to the RPGs.

I'm not really sure I was looking forward to a battle with the Ascendants so soon after DS9's Dominion woes. I'm happy to get back to some exploration, both in the galaxy and within the soul.

Well, I was hoping for something a little more original that a simple, all out war.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Because, I view the four year jump as a stunt.

You know, it's been explained numerous times that the four-year jump isn't a stunt, that it was a subjective creative decision made out of recognition of the fact that Margaret and Marco had different creative styles and that it would therefore be better, in Margaret's view, to embrace that change by bringing DS9 into sync with TNG, TTN, and VOY rather than having it be an imitation of what it was under Marco.

Now, if you think that's a bad decision, fine. I wouldn't argue that. But it gets really irritating to me, as another poster, when people attribute motives to the authors and editors that are false and which have been explained to be false.

Of course it's a stunt. Stunts aren't inherently good or bad. I've said before that I understand why TPTB wanted all the 24th century novel series in the same general timeframe. However, when you've seen how the other series got to that point, having the DS9 characters suddenly appear in radically altered ways is a stunt. It's waving a flag and saying "Look how much things have changed for these guys. Wonder what happened?" For all we know, the entire DS9-R-R has been plotted out in exacting detail. It may be plotted in broad strokes only. Each writer may have come up with their own reasons a character is where they are and these were later worked into a plot. Who knows? But, simply reintroducing them in radically altered situations, usually in a dark way, is a stunt. It's designed to get attention.

 

[JD]

I just want to point out to the people complaining about the current 24th century stuff, that the next two books will be standalone adventures that don't appear to deal with the Borg invasion, the Typhon Pact, or Federation politics. For all we know this could be the new norm. I'm sorry, but it's really starting to drive me crazy how people are complaining about the current direction of Trek Lit. We still don't really know what the current direction of Trek Lit is. Right now they are simply setting up the new status quo, and if you don't like that I understand, everyone has different tastes, but things are still being set up, and I have a feeling that once that set up is done the line will probably start getting alot more diverse in terms of tone and types of stories being told. Destiny was a huge event, and it's going to take time to deal with it's effects, but judging by the what's coming out next year I think we've finished dealing with it.

 

[Christopher]

^Quite right, JD. People should remember that the books that have come out within the past few years were developed by editors who are no longer in charge of the Trek fiction line, so it's impossible to make any valid conclusions about the future direction of the novels based on what happened in this year's books or last year's books. Maybe Margaret had a certain direction in mind for the books, but that isn't binding on her successors. Right now, the future of Trek Lit is wide open. There's no telling what its direction might be from here.

 

[Thrawn]

Of course it's a stunt.

...

But, simply reintroducing them in radically altered situations, usually in a dark way, is a stunt. It's designed to get attention.

This is, in fact, factually false. The actual author that made those decisions has come in here and several times explained the reasons for making them, and nowhere in any of that did he say "we wanted to get attention".

You're just flat wrong about this. Period.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Yes, Therin. And?
You ASKED me what was happening in it. I gave you an accurate information.
You have a problem with this because?

I didn't ever ask you to tell me what was in the novels. I asked if you'd read the four books you were complaining about.

 

[ClayinCA]

Not to change topics too widely, but I recently read that Jaime too is now no longer at Pocket. Is this true?

Yes, she is gone, too.

But in contrast to her predecessors she left S&S voluntarily to spend more time with her newborn AFAIK.

That's good to know. I wonder who that leaves as the guiding editorial force behind Star Trek's direction?

The last thing we really want is a ST novel that 100% of readers will agree is innoccuous, just okay, average or satisfactory.

Agreed. That way lies the inoffensive, generic ST novels of the Richard Arnold period.

Only 'Paths of disharmony' takes place later -

Spoiler: Paths of Disharmony

and it depicts the andorians leaving the federation.

Oi! The bloody thing just came out yesterday--how about giving some of us the chance to read it first?!?

Could people please stop spoiling the events of Paths of Disharmony? I haven't even had the chance to start reading it yet!

Glad I'm not the only one!

 

[Rosalind]

Could people please stop spoiling the events of Paths of Disharmony? I haven't even had the chance to start reading it yet!

I went and edited in spoiler codes for all the relevant posts.

In the future, if you have a problem like this, please use the notify button, as it'll get things sorted a lot faster than waiting for one of us to come in and edit.

And ProtoAvatar, in the future please think about your fellow posters before posting spoilers about books outside the specific spoiler thread.

 

[ClayinCA]

In the future, if you have a problem like this, please use the notify button, as it'll get things sorted a lot faster than waiting for one of us to come in and edit.

Understood, and thank you!

 

[Christopher]

The notify button isn't easy to find. I eventually figured out by elimination that it's that little red-and-white triangle in the bottom left corner of each post, under the user's information. It could stand to be labeled more clearly.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The notify button isn't easy to find. I eventually figured out by elimination that it's that little red-and-white triangle in the bottom left corner of each post, under the user's information. It could stand to be labeled more clearly.

Ah! I have found it a few times, then forget where it was. I'm sure it used to be a little hyperlink of text that said "Notify a mod".

Edit: Ah, okay, it says "Notify the moderator" when I slide the mouse over the little traffic sign with an exclamation mark on it.

 

[Christopher]

I wasn't sure if that was an exclamation point. It seemed to be, but on my display it just looks like a vertical black bar.