why did the Prophets choose a non-Bajoran as their Emmisary?

[Vanyel]

They created him after he taught them something - that makes no sense.

Only if you're stupid or being wilfully obtuse due to a bias against a particular species or story arc.

It's a temporal paradox, one of dozens that you'll find throughout Star Trek, including DS9. Do you also complain that Children of Time doesn't make any sense because old-Odo changed the course of the ship so that they didn't crash, but that means that old-Odo didn't exist to change the course of the ship so they actually did crash, which means that old-Odo did exist and blah blah blah? Because most of us just accept that as a conceit of the story that's not logical to us but makes sense in an odd way.

PROPHETS: What is this?
SISKO: Memories. Events from my past, like this one.
PROPHETS: Past?
SISKO: Things that happened before now. You have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about.
PROPHETS: What comes before now is no different than what is now, or what is to come. It is one's existence.
SISKO: Then, for you, there is no linear time.
PROPHETS: Linear time? What is this?
SISKO: My species lives in one point in time. And once we move beyond that point, it becomes the past. The future, all that is still to come, does not exist yet for us.
PROPHETS: Does not exist yet?
SISKO: That is the nature of linear existence.

The Prophets do not perceive reality in the same way that we do, and they would have had no concept of cause and effect unless Sisko told them about it. In the same "moment" that Sisko explained the concept to them, they created him so that he could explain it to them. It doesn't make sense to us, but that's because we have no comprehension of a non-linear existence. It would be like trying to imagine the universe with a fourth spacial dimension; our brains would not be able to comprehend it, but that doesn't mean that such universes can't exist.

Could it be that the Prophets were aware of and understood linear time?

"What comes before now is no different than what is now, or what is to come. It is one's existence."

The Prophet seem quite capable of explaining that they are aware of past/present/future, but they just see them as one. It's like watching a movie you've seen before. You know Luke and Leia are twins. You know they kiss, and you know that Leia will eventually develop some Force sense when she "feels" that Luke made it off the Death Star.

I think they couldn't see how one of their own (Sisko) could not see things they way they did. His time in the Celestial Temple in the premier episode could be the Prophets seeing if Sisko was open to being the Emissary and being able to see a bigger picture than he had ever seen before, a picture bigger than the Dominion War or raising a son.

Then in Sacrifice Of Angels, they were again dismayed to see that he still could not see beyond now, and had to punish him to try teach him to see the whole picture.

 

[Destructor]

I think it was because he was half Prophet. They needed him to stop Dukat.

This really make no sense though. If they exist outside of time, and the past present and future are all one to them, then surely there must have been an easier way to stop Dukat. Like having someone destroy that thing he used to free the Pah Wraith, or having it get "lost" as junk and thrown out in deep space where it'd never be found.

One of the relaunch novels posits the interesting theory that the Prophets, existing outside linear time, also see all of the multiple timelines created via the various means we've seen (Mirror universe, Abhramsverse, etc) in their entirety- the runabout was, after all, sent to the mirror universe via the wormhole. Sisko was special not just because they created him, but because, in another reality, Benny Russell created the Star Trek universe. This was only hinted at but I quite liked the idea of a 'grand unifying theory' to the Trek timelines, that each feeds into the other via in the Prophet's worldview.

This is one of the dumb plots they came up with that makes no real sense. It almost makes a bad ass not a bad ass that he was because he almost had no choice in his life is what it says.

DS9 was often about fate, destiny, and whether we have control over our own lives. Is there a difference between 'seeing what will be' and thinking that the people who shape the future have no control on how they shape it? That's an eternal question that will never be answered.

 

[neozeks]

The more you think about it, the more your head spins. Or possibly explodes.

Or even more likely, non-linearly explodes before you think about it.

I realize that is the absurd premise one must accept based on the poorly-written wormhole alien plotline, but it's too crazy to accept IMO. Better to chalk it up to what it really is IMO, and admit it's an irreconcilable writing fubar.

It may very well be unintended and a writing fubar but I personally find it to be one of the most fascinating sci-fi ideas in the whole of Trek. 'Too crazy', mind-bending stuff is exactly what good sci-fi should be doing.

I tend to agree with the first part. I don't think the Prophets really cared about the Bajorans. The Bajorans just happened to be living on top of the super max prison holding their dread-foes. So the Prophets dealings with the Bajorans were simply tied towards their goal of keeping the Pah-Wraiths locked away rather than for the betterment of the Bajoran people.

OTOH, if you like, as I do, the theory that the Prophets (and the Pah-Wraiths) are actually distant future Bajorans that have found a way to leave the confines of linear time, they do indeed in some way care about Bajorans - because in that way they are actually caring about themselves, their own existance. That would explain the whole 'we are of Bajor' thing.

It's another causality loop. The Prophets ensured their own creation by interacting with Bajorans, just like one could say Sisko ensured his own existance/created himself by interacting with the Prophets.

 

[Marie1]

In addition to Sisko teaching them something, I wonder if they recognized how many Bajorans were isolationist- or their the danger of becoming so after the Occupation, and decided it would be a good idea to make their Emissary non-Bajoran to help them through that.

There were a lot of Bajorans that seemed opposed to having dealings with other races, but having a key figure from a planet so far away might have helped them to open up- at a time when they were steal healing?

 

[Velocity]

They didn't choose him, he was the Emissary, he was the one that taught them about linear life. They just created him later.

They created him after he taught them something - that makes no sense.

I realize that is the absurd premise one must accept based on the poorly-written wormhole alien plotline, but it's too crazy to accept IMO. Better to chalk it up to what it really is IMO, and admit it's an irreconcilable writing fubar.

As for the thread title: the wormhole aliens only care about themselves. The idea that they care about or are related to Bajorans is a big marketing scam (identical in principle to the Guidelines/Rules Of Acquisition marketing scam in Quark's dream). The Sisko was a strong leader, whereas the Bajorans were weaklings. Hence, the wormhole aliens made the best choice they could for their protector.

If they didn't care about the Bajorans, or were at least interested in them, why were there "orbs" and prophecies that seem to come true?

 

[Zeppster]

They didn't choose him, he was the Emissary, he was the one that taught them about linear life. They just created him later.

They created him after he taught them something - that makes no sense.

I realize that is the absurd premise one must accept based on the poorly-written wormhole alien plotline, but it's too crazy to accept IMO. Better to chalk it up to what it really is IMO, and admit it's an irreconcilable writing fubar.

As for the thread title: the wormhole aliens only care about themselves. The idea that they care about or are related to Bajorans is a big marketing scam (identical in principle to the Guidelines/Rules Of Acquisition marketing scam in Quark's dream). The Sisko was a strong leader, whereas the Bajorans were weaklings. Hence, the wormhole aliens made the best choice they could for their protector.

If they didn't care about the Bajorans, or were at least interested in them, why were there "orbs" and prophecies that seem to come true?

Yeah, He also seems to forget that they basically created Sisko by taking human form to create Ben Sisko. They knew from his birth he was their emissary. Why did they choose a human instead of a Bajoran? For all we know their saw in their non linear existence what was going on with Bajor and that Humans were helping them out. Who the hell really knows why the chose that human and how they got lucky he got assigned there.

 

[indolover]

I think the Prophets also planned Sisko to get the DS9 command. So much so that of all available candidates, Picard had no choice but to choose him as its CO.

for all we know everything about Ben was encoded into him by the Prophets. Being fatherly, liking baseball, choosing to enter Starfleet, liking cookery, preferring a shaven head and a goatee as grooming lol.

 

[Vanyel]

They created him after he taught them something - that makes no sense.

I realize that is the absurd premise one must accept based on the poorly-written wormhole alien plotline, but it's too crazy to accept IMO. Better to chalk it up to what it really is IMO, and admit it's an irreconcilable writing fubar.

As for the thread title: the wormhole aliens only care about themselves. The idea that they care about or are related to Bajorans is a big marketing scam (identical in principle to the Guidelines/Rules Of Acquisition marketing scam in Quark's dream). The Sisko was a strong leader, whereas the Bajorans were weaklings. Hence, the wormhole aliens made the best choice they could for their protector.

If they didn't care about the Bajorans, or were at least interested in them, why were there "orbs" and prophecies that seem to come true?

Yeah, He also seems to forget that they basically created Sisko by taking human form to create Ben Sisko. They knew from his birth he was their emissary. Why did they choose a human instead of a Bajoran? For all we know their saw in their non linear existence what was going on with Bajor and that Humans were helping them out. Who the hell really knows why the chose that human and how they got lucky he got assigned there.

Q did hint to the full potential of the Human race being like the Continuum or even greater. So maybe the Prophets saw that potential too and used him (or a Human) since the potential was there. Maybe the Bajorans lacked, or lost, that potential.

 

[Zeppster]

If they didn't care about the Bajorans, or were at least interested in them, why were there "orbs" and prophecies that seem to come true?

Yeah, He also seems to forget that they basically created Sisko by taking human form to create Ben Sisko. They knew from his birth he was their emissary. Why did they choose a human instead of a Bajoran? For all we know their saw in their non linear existence what was going on with Bajor and that Humans were helping them out. Who the hell really knows why the chose that human and how they got lucky he got assigned there.

Q did hint to the full potential of the Human race being like the Continuum or even greater. So maybe the Prophets saw that potential too and used him (or a Human) since the potential was there. Maybe the Bajorans lacked, or lost, that potential.

They didn't really choose Sisko though. That was my entire point. They gave birth to Ben Sisko.

 

[Vanyel]

Yeah, He also seems to forget that they basically created Sisko by taking human form to create Ben Sisko. They knew from his birth he was their emissary. Why did they choose a human instead of a Bajoran? For all we know their saw in their non linear existence what was going on with Bajor and that Humans were helping them out. Who the hell really knows why the chose that human and how they got lucky he got assigned there.

Q did hint to the full potential of the Human race being like the Continuum or even greater. So maybe the Prophets saw that potential too and used him (or a Human) since the potential was there. Maybe the Bajorans lacked, or lost, that potential.

They didn't really choose Sisko though. That was my entire point. They gave birth to Ben Sisko.

I was not clear enough in my post, I do apologize.

I was trying to say that they chose a Human to be a half Prophet because Humans have the potential to be more than Human. Perhaps they saw the potential for Humanity to evolve into a higher state and knew they could use that potential to make the Emissary they needed at that time.

However, they did choose the one they created by sending one of their own out to mate with a human and give birth to The Emissary. Sisko may not have been chosen, but he was created for that purpose.

Then, as has been mentioned, they manipulated his life to bring him to DS9. Who knows? Maybe like Odo, he would have gone their anyway by requesting a transfer, because of some deep compulsion to be at Bajor and the Celestial Temple.

 

[Destructor]

Or even more likely, non-linearly explodes before you think about it.

Well, it all happened at the same time, from their perspective. There's no future or past. There just is.

It may very well be unintended and a writing fubar but I personally find it to be one of the most fascinating sci-fi ideas in the whole of Trek. 'Too crazy', mind-bending stuff is exactly what good sci-fi should be doing.

Word, brother.

They didn't really choose Sisko though. That was my entire point. They gave birth to Ben Sisko.

Yes, but they may have met him before they did that.