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Commentary on the current state of Star Wars continuity(some spoilers)

ryan123450

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posted by GenAntilles over at theforce.net boards...

EU Fan: Lord Lucas what about Anakin having an apprentice and the Mandalorians?

George Lucas: Anakin always had an apprentice and Mandalorians are pacifists now.

EU Fan: That was never part of the continuity!

George Lucas: Perhaps you feel your are being treated unfairly.

EU Fan: No my Lord.

George Lucas: Good. It would be unfortunate if I were to make Kiffar and Dathomir the same planet.

EU Fan: This continuity is getting worse all the time...

George Lucas: Furthermore Quinlan Vos is a surfer dude.

EU Fan: That was never part of the continuity...

George Lucas: I am altering the continuity, pray I do not alter it further.

EU Fan: this continuity is getting worse all...

George Lucas: Also! Darth Maul was born on Dathomir and the Nightsisters rasied him!

EU Fan: That...

George Lucas: I am altering the continuity, pray I do not alter it further.

EU Fan: This continutiy is...

George Lucas: Also. Darth Maul is alive!

EU Fan: ...

George Lucas: I am altering the continuity! Pray I do not alter it further!

EU Fan: ...This continuity...

George Lucas: The Force is now a Divine Trinity!

EU Fan: ..........

George Lucas: I am altering the continuity, pray I do not alter it further.

EU Fan: ...This continuity is very nice and I'm happy to enjoy it.

Given everything that's happened since the beginning of the animated series, (Ahsoka, the Mandarians, the timeline, Ventress, Vos, the Hutts, Dathomir, and now Maul) I have to ask...
Why does Lucas seem to think the Star Wars story is a work in progress, and he can just rewrite things as he goes along. There are some things that are already established. They can't be overwritten now. They weren't the first draft that can now be thrown out.

Of course you could argue it's been like this ever since George decided the original film was Episode IV...
 
Re: Commentary on the current state of Star Wars continuity(some spoil

Of course he owns the franchise and can alter the continuity as he chooses....however, I think it's kind of unfair to the authors who developed these concepts and characters. Then again, he also was unfair to the original trilogy SFX people, who had their work replaced by CG (Although in some cases people such as Dennis Muren worked on both the OT theatricals and it's SE incarnation). A big deal has recently been made on these forums about how the Clone Wars was implied to have evil clones, but Lucas turned it into proto-Stormtrooper clones vs. Battle droids.

It's kind of like the Enterprise thing, the expanded Universe writers for Trek (Although that's never really been canon) had their own kind of 'vision' of what the early Starfleet was like, but Berman/Braga came up with something that was largely different.
 
Re: Commentary on the current state of Star Wars continuity(some spoil

First, the bit about the force being a trinity is from episodes that no one has seen yet. We do need to wait until the episodes actually air to know if that is accurate. As for Maul, be fair, the EU already resurrected him *twice*

Second, Lucas has made it clear the EU doesn't exist for him unless he wants to mine it for ideas. As one might guess, I've been very aware of that since he rewrote Boba Fett's backstory. He considers his world and the EU to be completely separate entities, so I've adopted a similar view. I generally don't take issue unless what he comes up with is worse than what was there before.
 
Re: Commentary on the current state of Star Wars continuity(some spoil

I am far from a Lucas apologist, but sometimes I think people rag on him more than necessary.

Lately, people only want to focus on the bad and not on the good. It's starting to rub my rhubarb.
 
Re: Commentary on the current state of Star Wars continuity(some spoil

Posted by GenAntilles over at theforce.net boards...

EU Fan: Lord Lucas what about Anakin having an apprentice and the Mandalorians?

George Lucas: Anakin always had an apprentice and Mandalorians are pacifists now.

EU Fan: That was never part of the continuity!

George Lucas: Perhaps you feel your are being treated unfairly.

EU Fan: No my Lord.

George Lucas: Good. It would be unfortunate if I were to make Kiffar and Dathomir the same planet.

EU Fan: This continuity is getting worse all the time...

George Lucas: Furthermore Quinlan Vos is a surfer dude.

EU Fan: That was never part of the continuity...

George Lucas: I am altering the continuity, pray I do not alter it further.

EU Fan: this continuity is getting worse all...

George Lucas: Also! Darth Maul was born on Dathomir and the Nightsisters rasied him!

EU Fan: That...

George Lucas: I am altering the continuity, pray I do not alter it further.

EU Fan: This continutiy is...

George Lucas: Also. Darth Maul is alive!

EU Fan: ...

George Lucas: I am altering the continuity! Pray I do not alter it further!

EU Fan: ...This continuity...

George Lucas: The Force is now a Divine Trinity!

EU Fan: ..........

George Lucas: I am altering the continuity, pray I do not alter it further.

EU Fan: ...This continuity is very nice and I'm happy to enjoy it.

The way that the lit people are flailing in the wind over Clone Wars is just hilarious. Whenever I'm in a down mood, I go over there to see how they are frothing in the mouth like lunatics over a cartoon . This is even better than all the gush/basher stuff when the prequels were coming out.

I'm hoping one of them is stupid enough to actually burn his entire collection of figures, books and games because of the Cartoon. It would be utterly hilarious. I could even post it on 4chan.

SW fans going insane.

:techman: Best entertainmen ever!:guffaw:
 
Re: Commentary on the current state of Star Wars continuity(some spoil

I'm a simple person who will go "Who the fuck cares?!" if the show is entertaining.

BSG will have two spinoffs, the newer one will most likely ignore some lose continuality that was rather lame in BSG. Do people care? No, as long as the show is fun.

Did the timeline shift? Sure, does it matter? Most likely not.
 
Re: Commentary on the current state of Star Wars continuity(some spoil

ITT: OP thinks EU matters :lol:

12919998191110906553.jpg
 
Re: Commentary on the current state of Star Wars continuity(some spoil

I'm hoping one of them is stupid enough to actually burn his entire collection of figures, books and games because of the Cartoon. It would be utterly hilarious. I could even post it on 4chan.
Oh someone will. I'm sure of it. :D

George Lucas: The Force is now a Divine Trinity!

EU Fan: ..........

George Lucas: I am altering the continuity, pray I do not alter it further.

EU Fan: ...This continuity is very nice and I'm happy to enjoy it.
Brilliant. :guffaw:
 
Re: Commentary on the current state of Star Wars continuity(some spoil

I thought Quinlan Vos was a rastafarian. Or am I getting my Jedi mixed up? :confused:

Yknow this is why I don't really want to read any Star Wars novels. I am blithely oblivious that Mandalore was ever anything but pacifist, having learned of its existence only lately, and if Anakin had an apprentice during the non-sucky part of the PT story (aka, TCW), then I see no reason to dispute it. Kiffar and Dathomir can be separate planets, the same planet, or flavors of gelato, all I know of it is what TCW tells me.

I ask only one thing of Star Wars continuity: DON'T SUCK AGAIN!

Why does Lucas seem to think the Star Wars story is a work in progress, and he can just rewrite things as he goes along.
If he writes something and it's nonsense, not only does he have the right to re-write it, he has the obligation to do so, and do it right this time (although I don't recall any of your complaints from the PT - maybe they were mentioned in passing while I was too busy throwing my popcorn at the screen to pay attention to what was going on.)

If they were in the novels, and whoever wrote those novels did a good job, then I suppose it's not nice that their good work is being rewritten, but as long as the results are entertaining and make sense, I'll just avoid reading those novels and be perfectly content with the one and only continuity I am familiar with.
They weren't the first draft that can now be thrown out.
No, the PT movies were the first draft, and they should have been thrown out. :rommie:

Okay here's an idea. Explain to us how the various things you're complaining about could improve TCW. For instance, how would Mandalore not being pacifist improve the story? For them to be pacifist gives them a sense of apartness and unique identity separate from the Republic worlds involved in the fighting, and provides dramatic tension between Obi-Wan and Satine. So for Mandalore to be pacifist serves a purpose in the story. How would changing that improve the story?

A big deal has recently been made on these forums about how the Clone Wars was implied to have evil clones, but Lucas turned it into proto-Stormtrooper clones vs. Battle droids.
Did anyone ever "promise" that the Clone Wars would be about "evil" clones or was that a fan wish? In any case, the problem with the way the Clone Wars is being written isn't broken promises or screwed up continuity, it's that it's just bad writing - it makes the good guys look bad for manufacturing sentient beings as cannon fodder.

Yet Lucas turns around and attempts to use the Republic as a metaphor for current-events politics, which he can't do because he's made the Republic too evil and non-parallel to our own values to begin with. He seems utterly oblivious to how he's screwed up what he apparently is attempting to do, when there were many options for rationalizing why this war is called "the Clone War" that would work better. Sloppy.
 
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Re: Commentary on the current state of Star Wars continuity(some spoil

Did anyone ever "promise" that the Clone Wars would be about "evil" clones or was that a fan wish?

DING DING DING!

We have a winnah!!!

fett51 said:
First, the bit about the force being a trinity is from episodes that no one has seen yet. We do need to wait until the episodes actually air to know if that is accurate. As for Maul, be fair, the EU already resurrected him *twice*

So far, all we have is an offhand reference to Maul's deadness by another character, and someone else from his "kin". That's not the same as him actually coming back to life. As far as the "trinity" thing goes, it has been suggested elsewhere that it's really not a change but that it was perceived as such by people involved with the episode. It's entirely possible that some people were simply surprised by the dualistic aspect of the Force, having been swayed by Force revisionists into the belief that the revisionism somehow became canon along the way.
 
Re: Commentary on the current state of Star Wars continuity(some spoil

It has been argued by some that the novels/comics reboot in the early 90s helped stir public interest in Star Wars again, since from the mid-80s to the early 90s there was sort of a dark age of Star Wars with no movies/toons except the Ewok stuff and the role-playing game until Zahn's trilogy and Dark Empire came out. It's often cited that Lucas himself read Dark Empire (Where Luke goes to the Dark side) and enjoyed it.




So in a way, these books could have possibly been responsible for the prequels (As well as the SEs) being made in the first place...


Although EU detractors often credit ILM's CG revolution with Lucas going ahead and deciding to do the prequels as well...


However it should be carefully noted that the prequels and Clone Wars are not the first to alter continuity of earlier EU works. The Marvel continuity, for example, was largely ignored by Bantam and Dark Horse during their 90's SW titles. However, certain elements have been reintroduced into continuity (Such as the Shira Brie/Lumiya storyline which would a major plot point of the recent Legacy of the force novels), but there still were a ton of problems with the early books, including a story in which Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker were seperate characters.


Also there were often different depictions of the same ship or species. For instance the HEIR TO THE EMPIRE comic series made the Noghri HUGE and Hulk-like, whereas the novels made it clear they were small and stealthy.
 
Re: Commentary on the current state of Star Wars continuity(some spoil

Did anyone ever "promise" that the Clone Wars would be about "evil" clones or was that a fan wish?
It was implied by not only Obi-Wan's use of it, but the phrase itself. You rarely, if ever, name a war after the side you were fighting on as opposed to the side you were fighting against or the most notable location thereof. What we're actually seeing are the Droid Wars or the Seperatist Wars. At most, it would be the Droid-Clone Wars by including both major combatants.

Or should we rename WWII the American Wars? Hey, Americans fought in it, right?
 
Re: Commentary on the current state of Star Wars continuity(some spoil

There is one example of Republic Clones vs. Seperatist Clones in the Expanded Universe-and interestingly enough, it's sort of mentioned in the films itself-"Salecumi has fallen, and master Vos has moved his troops to Boz Pity." Although I've heard that comic arc might have been overriden by the animated series, which also deals with Salecumi.
 
Re: Commentary on the current state of Star Wars continuity(some spoil

Did anyone ever "promise" that the Clone Wars would be about "evil" clones or was that a fan wish?
It was implied by not only Obi-Wan's use of it, but the phrase itself. You rarely, if ever, name a war after the side you were fighting on as opposed to the side you were fighting against or the most notable location thereof. What we're actually seeing are the Droid Wars or the Separatist Wars. At most, it would be the Droid-Clone Wars by including both major combatants.

Or should we rename WWII the American Wars? Hey, Americans fought in it, right?
Fascinating! I'd never looked at it that way, but that makes a lot of sense. Congrats; you've just made the Star Wars Prequel Rejection Society's blog! :p
 
Re: Commentary on the current state of Star Wars continuity(some spoil

Just for fun: wouldn't Obi-Wan look back and see the Clone Wars as a bitter thing, since the clone forces did, basically, end up being the enemy?

Also, perhaps "The Clone Wars" is the common name for the war among the civilian galaxy who were caught in the middle, since the Republic's massive clone army could be seen as a prelude to the domination of the Empire and the prototype for the Imperial Navy.
 
Re: Commentary on the current state of Star Wars continuity(some spoil

Did anyone ever "promise" that the Clone Wars would be about "evil" clones or was that a fan wish?
It was implied by not only Obi-Wan's use of it, but the phrase itself.

And Obi Wan was so descriptive! Why, what with him never even saying the word "clone" in Star Wars!

LUKE
No, my father didn't fight in the
wars. He was a navigator on a spice
freighter.

BEN
That's what your uncle told you. He
didn't hold with your father's ideals.
Thought he should have stayed here
and not gotten involved.

LUKE
You fought in the Clone Wars?

BEN
Yes, I was once a Jedi Knight the
same as your father.

LUKE
I wish I'd known him.

BEN
He was the best star-pilot in the
galaxy, and a cunning warrior. I
understand you've become quite a
good pilot yourself. And he was a
good friend. Which reminds me...

LEIA
General Kenobi, years ago you served
my father in the Clone Wars. Now he
begs you to help him in his struggle
against the Empire. I regret that I
am unable to present my father's
request to you in person, but my
ship has fallen under attack and I'm
afraid my mission to bring you to
Alderaan has failed. I have placed
information vital to the survival of
the Rebellion into the memory systems
of this R2 unit. My father will know
how to retrieve it. You must see
this droid safely delivered to him
on Alderaan. This is our most
desperate hour. Help me, Obi-Wan
Kenobi, you're my only hope.

There. That's it. The only two on-screen mentions of the Clone Wars before Episode Two. It's barely enough to confirm that the Clone Wars were a thing that happened to Obi-Wan and Anakin.
 
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