• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

The Motion Picture - I remembered it differently...

I don't really think the DE is what Robert Wise had in mind in 1979 - nor do I believe he had much (if anything) to do with the changes made to the film - most of it struck me as things fanboys would choose to alter - which is why I think the technical and artistic decisions taken on the DE were so disastrous and out of place. Not to mention the lack of skill and expertise in executing them. They swapped a murky matte painting for even murkier CGI in the Vulcan and San Francisco shots. Daren Dochterman's comments in the making of featurette that "you can't tell what you're looking at" in the original shots would make more sense if you *could* tell what you were looking at in their replacements. The shot where Spock approaches the statues is okay I guess but the establishing shot of him meditating... can anyone honestly tell me that muddy incoherent mess is an improvement over the epic shot of distant volcanoes and mountains and massive moons in the sky? I know its not a terribly realsitic matte painting in the original shot but I can definitely "tell what I'm looking at" more than in that shot's replacement.

I also really don't think the new San Francisco shots are a particular improvement over the originals - the still photo panorama they used for a backdrop to Kirk's tram is lifeless and static - at least the matte painting establishes some kind of mood and reminds me of classic American landscape paintings. Then there's the tram station landing itself which has this odd extension to the one side with a TOS shuttle taking off - nice idea but again, horrible execution - the shuttle has a strange flickering border which is visible even at the low resolution of the DVD transfer. That kind of thing is distracting whereas the original shot has no such distractions or faults to break the illusion (except probably if you're really looking, static painted figures alongside composited moving ones look a bit odd) but they weren't fixed in the DE either so one wonders what the point was.

The elimination of the computer voice was a major mistake IMO - it really did lend a futuristic element to the proceedings and without it the ship seems somehow more lifeless and bland. The old red alert klaxon too lent much more tension to the atmosphere and was pretty realistic - you want to get people's attention with an alert siren, and you get much the same thing on any real world vessel when general quarters is sounded. The ship just seemed to be rendered very bland and TNG or Voyager in feel and I think it did a lot of harm to the dramatic impact of the film. I just can't see how this is something a director of Wise's considerably talents would have wanted.

Then there are the awful edits made to the vger cloud sequence - Jerry Goldsmith's score is allowed to really take flight in this section of the film and to just chop sections of it out along with the staggeringly beautiful imagery is criminal. TMP is one of those films that *needs* its deliberate and slow pacing to really get under your skin and have an effect on you. I know they didn't make it that much shorter but then, why bother at all, especially when it has such a disastrous effect on the flow of the musical score. They don't lop sections out of Beethoven's Ninth in the middle of a chord or phrase, so why lop sections out of Goldsmith's beautiful score?

Then we have the Wing Walk which to my mind is perhaps the only sequence that really needed fixing and I do actually think it works better in its DE form but I think the Enterprise CG model linmited as it was by both budget and available computing horsepower of 1999/2000 when the work was done, was just not quite up to the task. They could easily have taken still photos of the studio model (which they had access to) from the appropriate angles, paint out the "A" in the registry and colour correct to match the original TMP paint scheme - it would have looked a million times better and been cheaper too. The original shots probably would have been done exactly this way in '79 if they'd had time to finish that sequence.

But I happily take the blu ray release with this one truly disastrous shot than the DE with its dozens of annoyances but very few actual deficiencies attended to, along with its truly appaling print and lack of any form of cleanup or colour stablization.
 
I just saw this movie for the first time. I don't know which cut it was--whatever is on Netflix's instant watch.

I feel like I saw a completely different film from just about everyone in this thread. I thought it was terrible.

The music was great, the special effects were great, the exteriors of the Enterprise were awesome. Nothing else really clicked for me. A few things stood out as really ridiculous.

First, they have Kirk engineer Decker's ouster as captain of the Enterprise. Then Starfleet sends Kirk to deliver the news, while Decker is getting the ship ready for launch. What kind of organization is Starfleet that it would do this?

If what we've seen of other starship captains is true, Decker had the final say in putting together "his" crew. Yet none of his bridge staff seems concerned in the least that their captain's been removed. And was he the one who got Ilia assigned to the Enterprise, or was she a last-minute substitute?

Then there's the botched transporter scene--what was the point of that, except clearing a space for Spock? Why not just have unSpock get the Regulan flu and be grounded or something? So far, it looks like Starfleet is a pretty inept bunch.

Then there's the botched warp/wormhole thing. I couldn't really follow it because I was laughing pretty hard the whole time--it just looked ridiculous, and it sounded pretty funny, too.

And Kirk is in the obnoxious admiral role, which might have made sense if this was the pilot for a TV show about Captain Decker that Shatner visited one or two times a season, but it just didn't seem to be a great approach for re-introducing Kirk as the captain of the Enterprise.

In general the music was great, but that "GONNNNNNNG" sound that kept on happening was annoying, and reminded me of The People's Court.

The uniforms--I've seen a lot of criticism of them, but the thing that threw me the most wasn't the color schemes, but the way that people just changed them at random. Why did Kirk change into short sleeves? And then back?

The scene that split my sides the most was Spock thrusting himself into Vger's orifice. Seriously--orifice? Could they please redub the next cut with "aperture?" Technically it's more accurate, because at that point they still think it's not organic, and...you wouldn't have Spock thrusting into an orifice.

And to me the story, which a lot of other people think is "high concept," just didn't make a lot of sense. Many parts felt like a rip-off of 2001, which didn't mean it was as good as 2001, just that it was derivative.

What did I miss that made up for all of the (perceived) shortcomings?
 
If what we've seen of other starship captains is true, Decker had the final say in putting together "his" crew. Yet none of his bridge staff seems concerned in the least that their captain's been removed.
Well the guy with the high forehead and beautiful eyes does speak up just after Kirk leaves for engineering. But Uhura then immediately bitch slaps his ass around the bridge, so apparently Decker does have his supporters, but that doesn't include the senior crew, who perhaps know better.

And was he the one who got Ilia assigned to the Enterprise, or was she a last-minute substitute?
As I understand it, right after Kirk assembled the crew on the rec room deck and gave them that briefing, several of them basically bailed off the ship and had to be replaced. That's how Ilia got aboard. She was one of the "final crew replacements."
 
I just saw this movie for the first time. I don't know which cut it was--whatever is on Netflix's instant watch.

It's the theatrical cut minus the overture. It's also missing the subtitles during the opening Klingon battle and the Vulcan masters scene.

Neil
 
And was he the one who got Ilia assigned to the Enterprise, or was she a last-minute substitute?
As I understand it, right after Kirk assembled the crew on the rec room deck and gave them that briefing, several of them basically bailed off the ship and had to be replaced. That's how Ilia got aboard. She was one of the "final crew replacements."

That probably makes more sense. My initial impression from the "replacement" line was that the original navigator was the person who was killed in the transporter with Sonak.
 
The person killedl next to Sonak was Admiral Lori (Something), who was Jim Kirk's wife in all but name. That why Kirk left the transporter room, got turned around in a main corridor and had to ask for directions.
 
^^^Because it's from the novelization and not in the screenplay. In other words: retcon by the Great Bird after the film was shot.
 
I just saw this movie for the first time. I don't know which cut it was--whatever is on Netflix's instant watch.

I feel like I saw a completely different film from just about everyone in this thread. I thought it was terrible.

THANK YOU! After reading a lot of this thread I thought I was losing my mind.
 
I just saw this movie for the first time. I don't know which cut it was--whatever is on Netflix's instant watch.

It's the theatrical cut minus the overture. It's also missing the subtitles during the opening Klingon battle and the Vulcan masters scene.

Neil
How's that possible? Without subtitles those scenes would be incomprehensible.

Yep! Clearly they went back to an earlier generation element, prior to burning in the subtitles. DVD and Blu-ray players can generate their own. That new subtitle-less transfer was provided to Netflix and is now shown that way.

Neil
 
The Vulcan masters scene was originally shot with the actress speaking in English, later it was re-dubbed with Vulcan dialog.

When they switched over to the Vulcan dialog, the hired linguist had to come up with words that would match the actresses existing filmed mouth movements.

The original was on YouTube years back.

retcon by the Great Bird
While never intended to be included in the on screen story, the woman killed in the transporter accident (Admiral Lori Ciana) was always someone important to Kirk, explaining his movements in the corridor and appearing disorientated to Decker. The speed of his recovery also spoke to Kirk's obsession with reacquiring the Enterprise and the mission.

Not a retcon, that's something that is "made up" later. The woman's name might have been created later (I not sure about that), but her basic identity was always part of the backstory.
 
When they switched over to the Vulcan dialog, the hired linguist had to come up with words that would match the actresses existing filmed mouth movements.

The same goes for the Klingon dialogue.
I think the 'linguist's' name was James Doohan.
 
The Vulcan scene was changed after it was realized that it was a cheat having the Klingons speak an alien language while the Vulcans were speaking English.

Neil
 
The Vulcan scene was changed after it was realized that it was a cheat having the Klingons speak an alien language while the Vulcans were speaking English.

Neil



And, if I'm not mistaken, I believe that they did hire a real linguist to create both alien languages. I'd have to check Sackett's book to be certain, but I seem to remember reading this years ago.
 
In general the music was great, but that "GONNNNNNNG" sound that kept on happening was annoying, and reminded me of The People's Court.

You are probably referring to the Blaster-Beam. It represented V'ger voice, presence, and influence on the Ilia Probe. It was created by child actor Craig Hundley who played Kirk's nephew Peter Kirk in TOS Season 1 episode "Operation - Annihilate!" and Tommy Starnes in TOS Season 3 episode "And the Children Shall Lead". I thought composer Jerry Goldsmith used the Blaster-Beam wisely in TMP. I think composer James Horner also used the Blaster-Beam in TWOK during the Mutara Nebula battle between the Reliant and the Enterprise.

shatnertage said:
And to me the story, which a lot of other people think is "high concept," just didn't make a lot of sense. Many parts felt like a rip-off of 2001, which didn't mean it was as good as 2001, just that it was derivative.

Well, the similarity between some of the special effects in both films is probably because Douglas Trumbull worked on both of those films. Granted both films had similarities: the E.V.A. sequence, the psychedelic trip sequence, and an human evolution sequence, to name a few. But in TMP, V'ger was an Earth man made probe that was repaired and upgraded by an unknown alien intelligence of living machines, which helped V'ger achieve intelligence and return home to Earth to seek its creator and it was going to kill every living thing on Earth in order to supposedly join its creator. Whereas, in 2001:ASO, the monolith was left behind on Earth by an unknown alien intelligence to influence early man, to help them survive and develop.

TMP is my favorite Star Trek film. I usually drink some wine and turn off the lights to fully enjoy it and "2001: A Space Odyssey". TMP is not for those who want a melodramatic character driven plot.


Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
/\
 
Last edited:
Wasn't his name Mark Okrund or something like that?

Okrund was only brought in on Star Trek III which had dramatically more spoken Klingon and Vulcan than previous films, thus a more developed "language" was needed for the sake of consistency and believability.

James Doohan (Scotty) who I believe was an amateur linguist) came up with what was used in ST:TMP - Okrand used those phrases as a starting point for his more fleshed out Klingon and Vulcan langauges.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top