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Amaris
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^ Beautiful. It also affects me because these are my heroes.
Science - What is it? Can it be trusted?
- Thread starter ThankQ
- Start date
If someone told me I would be singing along with Carl Sagan and Steven Hawking someday, I would've thought they were crazy. 
A
Amaris
Guest
If someone told me I would be singing along with Carl Sagan and Steven Hawking someday, I would've thought they were crazy.
Yeah.
I love these Symphonies of Science, and always look forward to each new one. I'd be lying if I said they don't make me tear up just a bit. Science rules.
Bill Nye kicks it old school!
The real problem is that your example (two and two make five) isn't something subject to social pressure.
Now, if we are talking about math that people don't truly understand (which is a lot of math for a lot of people), then sure, they can be pressured into accepting a wrong answer.
Are you suggesting that I haven't been in such a situation?
I was raised in a Catholic family, was in a Catholic school (and pre-school), going to church three times a week, and my best subject was religion... and then I realized that I didn't believe. There was no social catharsis or catalyst, just the simple realization that I didn't believe.
My beliefs aren't social in nature. So no matter what social immersion in the belief's of others I've experienced, I've never felt any internal pressure to conform.
But I would be willing to accept that this is something that you have experienced. You may have experienced times where you changed beliefs because of peer pressure, and it may be comforting for you to believe that everyone else is susceptible to it.
... or maybe you were born with five fingers and a thumb on each hand.
Why fear religion?
Many of my closest friends are quite religious, many of my favorite works of art were inspired by religion (most of the music I've listened to within the last few weeks have been masses and gregorian chants). I still take comfort in many of the aspects of Catholicism I was raised with.
Just because I don't believe doesn't mean I dislike or fear. I don't believe in ghosts, yet I love ghost stories. There is no reason (that I know of) to associate negative emotions to things just because you don't believe.
I'm not against religion, nor have I ever attempted to make someone who believes give up their faith (after all, I've stated that I find true faith to be a beautiful thing).
But this brings up an interesting point... do you believe that there is motive behind people's beliefs? Are there motives behind your beliefs?
Trickery is a subjective word.
I content that if you were said atheist, you might not have a choice based on the company you keep as to what you believe on any given day. I think that the assertion that your weakness (a subjective, but fitting word) in this area is shared by all is false.
But those who can change their beliefs about god at will or under social pressure, I will call self-delusional. And because I don't believe they have any real beliefs to begin with, they are best left out of this discussion (about people who really believe or really don't believe).
I think I might be aruging with someone extraordinary (or extraordinarily stubborn).
Just because you believe it isn't doesn't make it so. The experiment was performed and I tell you the same results can be reproduced if we try that experiment with that very example - 2 + 2 = 5.
I haven't thought about this before.
Certainly people can be motivated to change their beliefs. The Mohammed Ali thing again for example.
I am not letting you win that easily. You cant swan around saying 'I can't be made to believe something I don't believe in because any person that does manage to do that isn't a 'real' believer'. Well you can I guess but you won't look that smart.
Moreover you are confusing real change, a process that takes months or years, with a person that flip flops, saying this or that depending on who he is talking to.
Minds are reprogrammable.
Just because you believe it isn't doesn't make it so. The experiment was performed and I tell you the same results can be reproduced if we try that experiment with that very example - 2 + 2 = 5.
I haven't thought about this before.
Certainly people can be motivated to change their beliefs. The Mohammed Ali thing again for example.
I am not letting you win that easily. You cant swan around saying 'I can't be made to believe something I don't believe in because any person that does manage to do that isn't a 'real' believer'. Well you can I guess but you won't look that smart.
Moreover you are confusing real change, a process that takes months or years, with a person that flip flops, saying this or that depending on who he is talking to.
Minds are reprogrammable.
I dunno, wasn't that study done with lines of different lengths? I'm sure they've reproduced it in other forms, but I wonder if there's a difference in doubting our senses and doubting a fact in our own heads.
Hopefully they will have done research on this. The experiment sounds like too much trouble for me to conduct just to prove a point.
If someone told me I would be singing along with Carl Sagan and Steven Hawking someday, I would've thought they were crazy.
Yeah.
I love these Symphonies of Science, and always look forward to each new one. I'd be lying if I said they don't make me tear up just a bit. Science rules.
They do, they so do. I'm about to go off on a bit of a personal rant here, and I'm just doing it it for myself becuause it's something I want to do. Some of you, I hope, will say how wonderful my thoughts are, and how many of them you wonderfully share. Some of you are going to call me a worhtless liberal arrogant commie socialist asshole---And you're all wonderful too. In a...different...way. but I mean that hoenstly.
This is my own rant. THis is my own four 6.0 beers at 11:00 PM rant, and attribute to it as much values or disdain as you wish. I KNOW my intent. How you may choose to pervert it with lies means little to me.
And yeah, in the next few paragraphs, I may crack a few heads. Guess how many rotten rat's asses I give!?
Furst, I do see the loss of the lives of cildren. Now, I mut preface this by pointing out one of the top five suptidest concepts ever to come from the west. The young, with fee social ties, few bodies of government
And honesltly here's the problem as I see t. Lovend ones were so spas~~~~z
What wonderful thoughts you have, ThankQ!
Yeah, don't do a bar because a hot chick tell you to and then come in and post in a science thread.
My bad for wasting time. Kick ass night for myself, but I wasted you're time. I'll be better tomorrow.
Forgive me and let me be a silly ass for ahwile. I'll go back to being a boirng fuddy tomorrow.
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Amaris
Guest
You only live once. Make the most of it. Buy a hat that says "Fuck the Mustard!" on it. Let people give you odd looks, and revel in the fact that they don't know what it means, but they probably won't like it.
There's a scientific explanation for drunklness.
In addition to my previous post, I'd like to respond to this.
Believing that an empty patch of floor contains a person, or that two and two make five would require overcoming sensory perceptions that tell us otherwise. And I would guess that most people are inclined to believe/trust their sensory perceptions above and beyond opposing ideas.
Religion involves immaterial things ~ gods and creation myths that cannot be seen or touched. These are ideas which cannot be guided by sensory information, so unlike the above two examples, there is nothing to overcome in order to believe in them.
Perhaps the people most susceptible to religion are those who most strongly trust their sensory perceptions, simple because these people are less experienced at thinking critically about ideas that are totally disconnected from sensory information.
For myself, when I was young I believed in religion because that was what I was told by my parents was true. I also believed in the tooth fairy and father christmas for the same reason.
At the age of about 6 I found out that father christmas was a lie, and what I distilled from that experience was that I should not automatically trust what I was told was true, and that I should find truth for myself. Religion quickly came under that spotlight, but I found it difficult to reject the idea that had been imprinted within me. I felt guilty and afraid of rejecting it. And it took me until I was about 10 years old before I was fully comfortable not believing.
What I distilled from that experience is that religion is probably similar for everyone else. If it is imprinted within a person during childhood, it can be very difficult to shake it off when other parts of our personalities develop and we feel we don't want religion anymore.
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Yes...
Hypothesis: I'm a dumbass.
(morestuffinthemiddle)
Conclusion: I'm a dumbass.
Simple claims require simple evidence.
OH well. I'm up bright at early at 5:30 and somehow avoided the hangover. Not sure how I got that lucky.
