First Contact is more of a disaster than it lets on

[Mark 2000]

This is the episode, not the movie.

So let me get this straight. Your prime directive is not to interfere. And yet by making contact you manage to completely stunt the space program of a society indefinitely.

Then, to add insult to injury you take the most important person on the planet as far as technology is concerned. Not only are you further stunting the planet's growth, but you're removing an important voice of social decent that would have continued putting pressure on the chancellor and other members of government toward contact.

How is this non-interference?

 

[Dac]

Your completely right. Nice to see you here as well, sorry for the long DS9 centric reply over at io9.

 

[Anwar]

This is the episode, not the movie.

So let me get this straight. Your prime directive is not to interfere. And yet by making contact you manage to completely stunt the space program of a society indefinitely.

The Riker issue forced their hand, and they were reaching the time where they were going to contact the Malcorians anyways. The Feds didn't FORCE Durken to decide to cancel the program, the reactions of the Malcorians to aliens did that well enough. And Picard did try to dissuade Yale, but it was still her choice.

Then, to add insult to injury you take the most important person on the planet as far as technology is concerned. Not only are you further stunting the planet's growth, but you're removing an important voice of social decent that would have continued putting pressure on the chancellor and other members of government toward contact.

Durken was progressive enough without Minister Yale, and he DID understand the importance of contact. But he also knew that it would work out better if the contact happened when the Malcorians were ready for it.

 

[Mark 2000]

Your completely right. Nice to see you here as well, sorry for the long DS9 centric reply over at io9.

LOL, how'd you know it was me?

 

[Dac]

Your completely right. Nice to see you here as well, sorry for the long DS9 centric reply over at io9.

LOL, how'd you know it was me?

After clicking through to mark2000.com linked to in your profile, I guessed you were the guy who made those Trek animated viral vids.

Then I saw your avatar, clicked through to your other site and deduced with an animated site as slick as that, your probably the same guy

Almost as good as Sherlock Holmes. Almost.

 

[Mark 2000]

The Riker issue forced their hand, and they were reaching the time where they were going to contact the Malcorians anyways. The Feds didn't FORCE Durken to decide to cancel the program, the reactions of the Malcorians to aliens did that well enough.

You'd have to wonder why they really needed to contact them on their planet and not in space where there would have been a more equal footing. I think the Malcorian's paranoia was perfectly reasonable, frankly.

Now if the whole point of the prime directive is to not change a planet's natural course then they failed really badly.

And Picard did try to dissuade Yale, but it was still her choice.

Not good enough. He could have and should have said no. It's not really her choice to run away from her duties on a ship that shouldn't have been there.

 

[Cyke101]

This is the episode, not the movie.

Oh, the EPISODE... (puts down the pitchfork) you may continue.

So let me get this straight. Your prime directive is not to interfere. And yet by making contact you manage to completely stunt the space program of a society indefinitely.

Then, to add insult to injury you take the most important person on the planet as far as technology is concerned. Not only are you further stunting the planet's growth, but you're removing an important voice of social decent that would have continued putting pressure on the chancellor and other members of government toward contact.

How is this non-interference?

The whole point of the episode was to show the consequences of violating the Prime Directive. IIRC, it was an accident or injury that triggered the events that would eventually lead to interference.

Still, *somebody's* head should have rolled as far as Starfleet was concerned, because you're right, the effects were pretty major. We didn't get a hearing or a court martial even though an entire civilization was impacted. Even if there's no legal impact from Starfleet, you would think Picard and Riker would seriously feel some second thoughts and hindsight after that encounter.

The episode had some really great ideas and it provided insight into how things are done in Trek, but there wasn't really much of a follow-up for our heroes -- the episode made note of the consequences and damage to the planet, but not really to our heroes. It's fairly odd considering that TNG had the cast mulling over various but powerful events of their pasts, ie Picard and the Stargazer, Riker and the Pegasus, Troi and her sibling, etc. etc.

You'd have to wonder why they really needed to contact them on their planet and not in space where there would have been a more equal footing. I think the Malcorian's paranoia was perfectly reasonable, frankly.

Well, Enterprise and, strangely enough, the film First Contact, established that the Vulcans were monitoring Earth well before the planet was capable of warp drive, so maybe Starfleet observes civilizations that are on the verge of warp drive, and when they reach it (and after some considerable vetting), Starfleet makes itself known.

 

[Anwar]

You'd have to wonder why they really needed to contact them on their planet and not in space where there would have been a more equal footing. I think the Malcorian's paranoia was perfectly reasonable, frankly.

The humans didn't have any problems with the Vulcans doing it.

And Picard said that they try to go for a more peaceful contact rather than risk a confrontation in space where the newly-achieved warp species would be more likely to think "These guys are only responding because we're violating their territory, it's a preamble to war."

Now if the whole point of the prime directive is to not change a planet's natural course then they failed really badly.

Maybe so, but something similar would have ended up happening in a few years when the Malcorians made it into warp. It probably would have been more violent as well, given how xenophobic they are. So in the end it probably worked out best for them to put off external changes while they fix their internal problems first.

Not good enough. He could have and should have said no. It's not really her choice to run away from her duties on a ship that shouldn't have been there.

Her duties on Malcor were pretty much finished, since the space program was shelved. There wasn't much else left, and even Durken knew that.

I do think Malcor was worth revisiting, and I do wish we'd seen Yale again. They were a well-written well-acted bunch.

Personally, I wonder how the situation between Durken and Krola would have been afterwards: Krola would probably have tried his hardest to undermine Durken's social reforms, since he was so dead-set on the idea that aliens would have to be hostile while Durken wanted to try and mature the Malcorians into giving up their "We're the supreme life-form" idea.

 

[Mark 2000]

I don't acknowledge anything that happened in Enterprise, so that's moot.

I think you are short selling Yale. Obviously she's right there with the Chancellor. She would not have stayed quiet and no one's decisions or set in stone, especially in a democracy. I would assume the next chancellor might have thought differently. Yale would made a difference in the long run. Imagine if one of our major scientists were taken off the planet at the moment of their greatest discoveries? It's just unthinkably short sighted.

 

[Anwar]

Yes, but that discovery had been canceled and was apparently causing enough of a social problem it was causing riots among the population. She herself felt that her importance to Malcor in her lifetime was over.

Of course, Riker's commbadge is still there on the planet so who knows what'll happen when the Malcorians find it?

 

[Timo]

The thing is, Starfleet has always been ready to do limited meddling, or what amounts to palace coups, to minimize the effect of an already transpired "leak" or "interference". Say, Kirk's ready to extract John Gill or Captain Merrick and hopefully camouflage the extraction as something non-space-alien'y. Picard in turn is ready to do deals with planetary leaders so that their subjects don't find out too much about space monsters and interstellar politics "before they are ready".

The issue never seems to be self-determination of the primitive society; if it were, the society would be given facts and the power to decide. What "non-interference" seems to boil down to is "interference that ensures continuation of formerly observed development".

It's in this respect that Picard in "First Contact" fails, as the development of Malcoria takes a whole new turn. But the failure is not particularly great, because observations show that in the long term Malcoria is unwilling to leap to interstellar space. That there's technological advance and then resistance to it is just a continuation of a pattern, as per Durken's own views on his society. The change is much smaller than, say, the damage done by Gill or Merrick - it's just a minor adjustment of a timetable.

And it's most definitely a palace coup, as the officials left in charge seem unwilling to disclose anything about the encounter to their people. That's the way Starfleet likes it.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Shon T'Hara]

The Prime Directive is meant to keep the competiton down -- notice it only works one way; anytime a Starfleet ship encounters a more advanced civilization, they ask to trade knowledge and technology. Screwing up first contact, ensuring the Federation will have an even greater edge when the aliens reach space, is perfectly okay.

 

[Trekker4747]

The PD simply says that a species has to be "warp capable" to be contacted (or perhaps, in some cases, already aware of extra-local planetary species). If the planet in "First Contact" was planning a warp ship then they are "warp capable." That they never actually launched the ship is irrelevant. They had the ability.

And, as Picard points out, contact them in that manner is the better option as opposed to a chance encounter in space and all things considered having the Federation send in a meet-and-greet crew is better than a species having a chance encounter with the Ferengi, Klingons or Romulans. At least with the Federation stepping in with the first move they've the chance to offer protection or services or at least information on the dangers to be aware of in the galaxy.

It's also probably pretty unlikely that they run into a planet all that often that's just now reaching warp-capability as most of the planets they seem to encounter are at least warp-capable, aware of other species or at the very least deep-space capable at sub-light speeds.

 

[Avon]

is this the episode where Lilith fraks Riker?

 

[LitmusDragon]

is this the episode where Lilith fraks Riker?

Indeed

 

[Avon]

Eeeeeewwwwwww.

 

[Mark 2000]

The PD simply says that a species has to be "warp capable" to be contacted

But they aren't allowed the interfere with any non fed member warp or no warp. The Klingon civil war, the onaran drug runs, the angosian super soldiers were all situations where the prime directive was invoked in warp enabled cultures. The fact is the malcorians are 300 year behind earth and at a vital turning point. This is not the time to e taking their best and brightest off the planet and hoping it won't matter.

Just because the population is unwilling to change doesn't mean change won't come. Just look at American desegrigation. Someone is always going to throw a riot. They'll get over it, but they can't get over it if the proponents of change throw up their hands and leave the planet.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

is this the episode where Lilith fraks Riker?

That's easily the most remembered thing about it, yup.

And yeah, this is an episode where it all goes wrong - starting in the teaser. The rest of the story is an attempt to recover from that. Things could have gone better and they could have gone a lot worse.

It's probably not the first or last time these protocols won't accomplish everything they're intended to. When Assange releases all those Federation Council subspace messages, you're gonna see some serious shit.

 

[Gil T.Azell]

Think of it as Arkonia's Roswell, did it really happen?

 

[BillJ]

The PD simply says that a species has to be "warp capable" to be contacted (or perhaps, in some cases, already aware of extra-local planetary species). If the planet in "First Contact" was planning a warp ship then they are "warp capable." That they never actually launched the ship is irrelevant. They had the ability.

And, as Picard points out, contact them in that manner is the better option as opposed to a chance encounter in space and all things considered having the Federation send in a meet-and-greet crew is better than a species having a chance encounter with the Ferengi, Klingons or Romulans. At least with the Federation stepping in with the first move they've the chance to offer protection or services or at least information on the dangers to be aware of in the galaxy.

It's also probably pretty unlikely that they run into a planet all that often that's just now reaching warp-capability as most of the planets they seem to encounter are at least warp-capable, aware of other species or at the very least deep-space capable at sub-light speeds.

But by its very nature shouldn't the Prime Directive prevent Starfleet from releasing information about the local stellar neighborhood? By doing so they are tainting the decision making process of an independent and, by Federation standards, primitive world. Perhaps causing the race to come into the cosmos with hostile intentions towards certain species before ever meeting them.